| 08:31 | <virtuelv> | http://politics.reddit.com/info/6181z/comments/c02ijhx <-- can't we morph to april 1st and add <sicko> |
| 08:35 | Lachy | notes that he's currently living in "The World's Best Country to live in" (Norway), but actually disagrees with it. |
| 08:35 | <Lachy> | Australia is actually the best country to live in ;-) |
| 08:37 | <othermaciej> | my favorite country to live in is California |
| 08:37 | <othermaciej> | unfortunately we remain under US occupation |
| 08:37 | <othermaciej> | but even so it's quite nice |
| 08:42 | <hsivonen> | othermaciej: I figured the "Designed by Apple in California" thing was a not so subtle way of distancing California from the rest of the US |
| 08:44 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: nah, it's just because the idea of California has semiotic resonance with Apple's brand identity |
| 08:45 | mpt | is momentarily distracted by Wikipedia's "Californian independence" article |
| 08:45 | <hsivonen> | othermaciej: my Leopard box puts California and Ireland on the same depth in the implied taxonomy tree and doesn't mention the US or the EU at all |
| 08:45 | <othermaciej> | I don't think the EU considers itself a country yet |
| 08:47 | <hsivonen> | (by box I didn't mean computer but the packaging the Leopard DVD came in) |
| 08:48 | <hsivonen> | "Designed by Apple in California" "Assembled in Ireland" |
| 08:50 | <hsivonen> | back to RFCs: do I understand correctly that the generic scheme-unaware IRI restrictions merely ban some code points after the scheme and that's it? |
| 08:55 | <othermaciej> | I don't know |
| 08:55 | <othermaciej> | so far IRIs have not been relevant to actual web content so I haven't learned what that RFC says yet |
| 08:57 | <hsivonen> | hmm. interesting PUA characters are banned in the non-query part of the IRI |
| 09:27 | <hsivonen> | yay! javascript: IRIs have different character rules before and after a question mark in the script |
| 09:27 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: ? |
| 09:30 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: now I'm not sure if I'm reading the RFC in the wrong way of if the Jena IRI lib has a bug |
| 09:31 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: but it seems to me that private use characters are allowed in the query part of the IRI per grammar but not in the path part |
| 09:32 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: but the Jena IRI lib gives an error in both cases anyway... |
| 09:44 | <hsivonen> | Why does draft-hoehrmann-javascript-scheme-00 say: 'literal use of the character "/" should be avoided'? |
| 09:49 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: probably to avoid looking like a hierarchical URL |
| 09:49 | <othermaciej> | but I don't think it is a problem in practice |
| 09:52 | <hsivonen> | othermaciej: I don't see why looking like a hierarchical URL would be a problem even in theory |
| 09:53 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: you'd have to ask Bjoern |
| 09:53 | <hsivonen> | yeah |
| 09:53 | <othermaciej> | he usually has reasons for what he does |
| 10:06 | <hsivonen> | hmm. are there generic IRI processors that take a base IRI and a relative IRI and process them to produce a new absolute IRI that represents the relative IRI absolutized relative to the base IRI? |
| 10:06 | <hsivonen> | is there any non-contrived scenario where a javascript: IRI might participate in such processing? |
| 10:08 | <othermaciej> | I dunno, in what cases are things actually processed as IRIs? |
| 10:09 | <hsivonen> | I don't know. |
| 10:20 | <hsivonen> | will a browser ever consider an HTML document to have a javascript: URI as its base URI? |
| 10:26 | <mitsuhiko> | hsivonen: i have no idea what you're talking about but "/" is discouraged in javascript in an html context because it could erroneous close a script tag |
| 10:27 | zcorpan | added date and datetime text to the wiki |
| 10:27 | <hsivonen> | mitsuhiko: I am talking about javascript: IRIs |
| 10:28 | <mitsuhiko> | hmm. makes no sense then :) |
| 10:28 | <hsivonen> | mitsuhiko: that is, whether javascript:alert(4/2) is valid without percent escaping the / |
| 10:48 | <virtuelv> | hsivonen: works in at least two browsers |
| 11:08 | <hsivonen> | virtuelv: ok. (I expected unescaped form to work in browsers) |
| 11:09 | <virtuelv> | javascript:4/2 both outputs 2 in Opera and FF |
| 11:14 | <hsivonen> | I emailed Björn to ask for the rationale of the restriction |
| 18:37 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: i got a prince license. what should i do to set up prince as part of the spec creation pipeline any proposals? |
| 18:45 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: http://hsivonen.iki.fi/printing-wa10/ |
| 18:46 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: first, you should get DejaVu working with Prince |
| 18:46 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: then perhaps diff this http://hsivonen.iki.fi/printing-wa10/specification-a4.css with your current style sheet and add my stuff in @media print |
| 18:47 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: might be better to leave the paper size to command line |
| 18:47 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: and run it once with A4 and once with Letter |
| 18:48 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: of and the entity table needs a something to select outside it unless Prince has added ::outside to tables while I wasn't looking |
| 18:48 | <hsivonen> | s/of/oh/ |
| 18:53 | <Hixie> | DejaVu? |
| 18:54 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: http://dejavu.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page |
| 18:55 | <hsivonen> | If you are running Prince on Linux, you might already have it out of the box if Prince finds the fonts that came with the distro |
| 18:55 | <hsivonen> | If Prince fails to find glyphs for all the characters you put in the spec, it'll tell you |
| 18:56 | <Hixie> | no fonts came with this distro |
| 18:56 | <Hixie> | i wonder how i install this dejavu thing into my local user |
| 18:57 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: you can install it in Prince's own font directory if you like |
| 18:59 | <Hixie> | wow, dejavu has good coverage of the pages i need |
| 18:59 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: I spent some time googling for a font that had WARNING SIGN |
| 19:00 | <gsnedders> | html5lib's repo has an external to itself, but it uses the https:// URL which only works for project members |
| 19:00 | <hsivonen> | (Code200* crashed Cocoa or something) |
| 19:00 | <Hixie> | i don't have mscorefonts either |
| 19:04 | <Hixie> | good lord these corefonts are hard to get easily |
| 19:05 | <Falen> | Is there any open-source HTML parser in C? To convert HTML->Text, and read tags.. etc.. |
| 19:05 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: both Ubuntu and suse make it easy |
| 19:06 | <Hixie> | i don't have root on this debian box |
| 19:11 | <Hixie> | man the lengths i go to sometimes |
| 19:12 | Hixie | downloaded the .EXEs, downloaded the source to cabextract and compiled it, extracted the TTFs... |
| 19:13 | <Hixie> | btw the fonts changed names since you did the patch |
| 19:18 | <Philip`> | Falen: There's a tokeniser in C++, which might not be quite what you want but at least it exists :-) |
| 19:22 | <webben_> | Falen: libtidy is in C ... you might be able to adapt that |
| 19:24 | <Philip`> | Oh, I forgot about non-HTML5 HTML parsers - that would presumably make it easier |
| 19:58 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: http://damowmow.com/a.pdf |
| 19:59 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: my stylesheet had changed quite a bit so diffing it didn't work well, but i tried to take what i thought was important |
| 19:59 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: any advice? (prince in particular seems to have a problem with indenting with <dd>s?) |
| 20:07 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: the space between the left page edge and the body box should probably be much narrower |
| 20:08 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: also, I'd get rid of the colors and link underlines |
| 20:09 | <hsivonen> | whoa page 78 is not good |
| 20:10 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: I didn't have the dd problems, but I serialized from firefox |
| 20:10 | <jgraham_> | gsnedders: Yeah I should just fix that (there was a reason for it but the side effect is unacceptable) |
| 20:11 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: in case Prince doesn't do end tag inference right, parsing and serializing with html5lib would probably help |
| 20:12 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: it appears you omitted the bit that made the entity table multicolumn and thus more compact |
| 20:14 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: table in section 5.3.2 needs special font size attention |
| 21:30 | <ddfreyne> | Hm, question. |
| 21:30 | <ddfreyne> | The 'b' and 'i' elements... should these be interpreted as purely presentational, or do they have some semantic value as well? |
| 21:31 | <Lachy> | ddfreyne, see http://lachy.id.au/log/2007/05/b-and-i |
| 21:31 | <ddfreyne> | I'm thinking purely presentational; you'd use them where you would usually use bold and italic in non-hyper text, am I right? |
| 21:31 | <ddfreyne> | thanks |
| 21:32 | <ddfreyne> | sweet, that's exactly what I was thinking |
| 21:34 | <Philip`> | You'd use them where you would usually use bold and italic in non-hyper text if otherwise some meaning would be lost, but not where you'd use them just because they're pretty |
| 21:34 | <ddfreyne> | yeah, exactly |
| 21:34 | <ddfreyne> | I was just thinking of blog posts marked up like "<b><i>hello, blah blah blah</i></b>" |
| 21:35 | <Philip`> | (Woah, I only just noticed that X3D doesn't use a namespace) |
| 21:37 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: the left side gap is intentional (for issue notes and handwritten margin notes) |
| 21:38 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: the colours are also intentional (for colour printing) and the link underlines are useful to know exactly what is being hyperlinked |
| 21:38 | <Hixie> | though i suppose i could remove them |
| 21:39 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: fixed the column thing |
| 21:39 | <Hixie> | kinda |
| 21:40 | <ddfreyne> | I was just thinking of blog posts marked up like "<b><i>hello, blah blah blah</i></b>" |
| 21:40 | <ddfreyne> | err. |
| 21:40 | <ddfreyne> | wrong window :) |
| 21:41 | <Hixie> | i'm missing a bunch of glyphs still |
| 21:43 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: regenning a.pdf, take a look in a few minutes |
| 21:44 | <Philip`> | (Actually, the specification has no namespace, and a non-zero number of implementations produce non-namespaced content, but a non-zero number has "taken a few liberties until a firm specification is defined" and accepts content in the http://www.web3d.org/specifications/x3d-namespace namespace) |
| 21:44 | <Philip`> | (which seems kind of a suboptimal situation) |
| 21:57 | <Lachy> | http://html5.lachy.id.au/ has finally been restored. I believe I have found the issue and that it was actually caused by other php scripts on my server, not these ones. |
| 22:59 | <jgraham_> | gsnedders: I fixed the svn:externals |
| 23:01 | gsnedders | hugs jgraham_ for doing so (randomly) |
| 23:03 | jgraham_ | feel more appreciated than normal for typing a few simple commands :) |