| 00:00 | <Lachy> | yeah, but that's a popular library with a unique name |
| 00:00 | <Hixie> | it seems poem.js is also popular |
| 00:00 | <Hixie> | but i've never heard of it before |
| 00:01 | <Lachy> | it's also a common word, so maybe people are just calling different scripts the same thing |
| 00:01 | <Hixie> | possible, but it seems not in this case, at least not based on the google searches i did |
| 00:01 | <Hixie> | all i could find was people talking about it on arabic bulletin boards |
| 00:02 | <Lachy> | anyway, I'm having troubles of my own. Copying and pasting from iWork Pages into Dreamweaver is not as simple and convenient as it is from MS Word |
| 00:02 | <Philip`> | http://swalfna.com/dewan/poem.js |
| 00:02 | <Hixie> | Philip`: wow, how do you do that |
| 00:02 | <Philip`> | and http://www.dardasha.net/images/poem.js etc |
| 00:02 | <Philip`> | http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22poem.js%22 ;-) |
| 00:03 | <Hixie> | cunning! |
| 00:03 | <Hixie> | it does seem to be all the same script |
| 00:04 | <Hixie> | anyone speak arabic here? :-) |
| 00:07 | <Hixie> | Philip`: i don't suppose you have any luck with /en/pages/js/Abstract.js ? :-) |
| 00:08 | <Philip`> | http://ci.nii.ac.jp/en/pages/js/Abstract.js ? |
| 00:08 | <Philip`> | (That's all http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=en%2Fpages%2Fjs%2FAbstract.js finds) |
| 00:09 | <Hixie> | clearly i need to start using msn search and yahoo search more |
| 00:14 | <Philip`> | Sadly Google is not perfect :-( |
| 00:15 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 00:15 | <Hixie> | indeed not |
| 00:20 | <roc> | Hixie: smontagu on Mozilla IRC can help you with arabic |
| 00:20 | <Hixie> | aah, cool |
| 00:20 | <roc> | ... when he's around |
| 00:20 | <roc> | he lives in Israel so he's hardly ever awake when I am :-) |
| 00:21 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 10:23 | <hsivonen> | Lachy: does mediawiki have some kind of extension system? I'm not seeing the same UI on wiki.whatwg.org that I'm seeing in mediawiki docs |
| 10:23 | <hsivonen> | in particular, I don't see a button for creating a table |
| 10:24 | <Lachy> | yes, there are extensions available for it |
| 10:24 | <Lachy> | if you find one you want, I can install it for you |
| 10:26 | <Lachy> | hsivonen, http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Special:Version lists the extensions installed. Check that page on the other wiki to see what they're using |
| 10:27 | <hsivonen> | Lachy: ok. I'll just use the syntax manually |
| 14:31 | <Lachy> | does anyone know where in the whatwg archives the rationale for dropping <h> is described? |
| 14:35 | <zcorpan> | http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2004-November/002362.html ? |
| 14:41 | <Lachy> | thanks. |
| 14:42 | <Lachy> | I'll post that to public-html later (unless someone else does it) |
| 14:42 | <Lachy> | I gotta go, cya |
| 20:37 | <Hixie> | http://scripts.lycos.com/catman/init.js <-- the first statement in that file is a classic example of cargo-cult programming |
| 20:40 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: what's the expected magic? |
| 20:41 | <Hixie> | that it won't break parsers |
| 20:41 | <Hixie> | it's from people finding that "</script>" in an inline script breaks parsers |
| 20:42 | <Hixie> | so people instead of just writing "<\/script>" write "</scr"+"ipt>" |
| 20:42 | <Hixie> | and in this instance, it has gotten so far as "scr"+"ipt" in an external script |
| 20:42 | <hsivonen> | ok |
| 20:43 | <hsivonen> | I find the use of the $ sign weird, too, but I guess the $ is just a valid identifier character |
| 20:44 | <takkaria> | hsivonen: PHP influence, I guess |
| 20:44 | Philip` | guessed Perl instead |
| 20:47 | <Philip`> | I like being able to write "var π = 3.14" |
| 20:47 | <Philip`> | (Java is nice like that too) |
| 21:23 | <Hixie> | interesting |
| 21:23 | <Hixie> | i'm seeing a lot of dm_client... scripts |
| 21:23 | <Hixie> | seems to be related to REVENUE SCIENCE |
| 21:23 | <Hixie> | whatever that is |
| 21:24 | <Hixie> | lots of people complaining about cookies... |
| 21:24 | <Hixie> | hmm http://www.revenuescience.com/ |
| 22:05 | <jacobolus> | Hixie: in <http://hixie.ch/advocacy/xhtml>;, <http://www.hut.fi/u/hsivonen/xhtml-the-point>; should be changed to <http://hsivonen.iki.fi/xhtml-the-point/>; |
| 22:05 | <jacobolus> | (in case you're still updating that thing) |
| 22:17 | <Hixie> | i have several million pages in my survey who have <script src="javascript/quick_review.js"> and yet i can't find anything in any of the three search engines to tell me what that might be about |
| 22:17 | <Hixie> | jacobolus: k, thanks |
| 22:28 | Philip` | is surprised by how many search engines are just wrappers around Google/Yahoo/Ask |
| 22:30 | <Philip`> | All the familiar names from last century are now mere shells :-( |
| 22:33 | <jacobolus> | altavista seems to still exist |
| 22:33 | <jacobolus> | though half the page is "sponsored" matches |
| 22:33 | <jacobolus> | oh, i guess they use yahoo! |
| 22:33 | <kingryan> | jacobolus: altavista is owned by yahoo and uses most of the same technology |
| 22:33 | <jacobolus> | nevermind |
| 22:35 | <jacobolus> | i wonder what the point of that is |
| 22:35 | <jacobolus> | i.e. having a separate page which looks different, but is actually just yahoo |
| 22:36 | <Philip`> | http://www.alltheweb.com/ is just Yahoo too |
| 22:38 | <Philip`> | I guess the point is that people who use one search engine will continue using that search engine since it's what they know, and if Yahoo buys that search engine then they don't want to maintain two different technologies but they don't want to lose any of the existing users, so they keep the old branding |
| 22:48 | <Hixie> | i really can't find anything about this quick_review.js thing |
| 22:48 | <Hixie> | weird |
| 22:50 | <Philip`> | When you're collecting the list of frequently-used scripts, could you make it remember the page where it was found (and do that randomly in 1 in 10^5 occurrences, so you'll not have so much data but will have some pointers to things used a million times)? |
| 22:50 | <Hixie> | i'd have to have the list of frequently used scripts first |
| 22:51 | <Hixie> | which poses a chicken and egg problem |
| 22:51 | <Hixie> | (otherwise i'd just have to remember every script, which would be insane) |
| 22:52 | <kingryan> | Hixie: you have an example of this js file? |
| 22:52 | <Hixie> | no |
| 22:52 | <Hixie> | that's the problem |
| 22:53 | <Philip`> | You wouldn't need the list of frequent scripts first - if there's a tiny random chance of remembering the page each time you see a script, then non-frequent scripts will have a very low chance of you ever remembering a page they were on, whereas frequent scripts will have a high chance, so it will all work out sensibly as long as you're not unlucky :-) |
| 22:53 | <hsivonen> | I wonder how long it will take until google starts searching SVG now that 3 out of the top 4 browsers support it |
| 22:54 | <Hixie> | Philip`: i can't do anything non-deterministic, since i have to be able to rerun any particular scan of any page with reliably the same results |
| 22:56 | <Philip`> | if (md5(uri) < 2^128 / 10^5) { remember uri } |
| 22:56 | <Hixie> | the uri's always the same, that's the problem :-) |
| 22:57 | <Hixie> | (i could base it on the page's url, i guess, but that still seems somewhat dodgy) |
| 22:57 | <Hixie> | it'll be easier just to special case the few uris i actually need to look for |
| 22:59 | <Philip`> | (I was thinking of 'uri' being of the page, so it would occasionally store the (page uri, script uri) pairs, as well as doing the normal counting of all script uri values) |
| 22:59 | <Philip`> | (and then it would only need a single pass) |
| 22:59 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 22:59 | <Hixie> | it's not a bad idea |
| 23:01 | <Philip`> | I think it's crazy but maybe it'd work anyway :-) |
| 23:40 | <gsnedders> | how awesome. |
| 23:41 | <gsnedders> | people are already finding my site searching for "http parsing specification" |
| 23:41 | <gsnedders> | The number of such referrals shows that people really do want such a thing |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | anyone know what crux.js might be for? |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | (<script src="js/Crux/crux.js"></script>) |