| 00:08 | <annevk> | awesomeness, thanks Øistein Unicode people are looking into defining what I want |
| 00:09 | <annevk> | thanks to* |
| 00:09 | <jmb> | that is, indeed, cool |
| 00:09 | <Hixie> | yeah, mark is one of my colleagues here at google |
| 00:10 | <Hixie> | he's good people |
| 00:10 | <annevk> | heh |
| 00:10 | <annevk> | small world et all |
| 00:12 | <Hixie> | did the htmlwg ever reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2004Aug/0011.html ? |
| 00:12 | Hixie | looks at xhtml2 to see what solution they came up with for quotes |
| 00:12 | <annevk> | they have <quote> |
| 00:13 | <annevk> | that doesn't have quotes |
| 00:13 | <Hixie> | actually looks like they went back to having <q> |
| 00:13 | Hixie | looks up its definition |
| 00:13 | <annevk> | interesting |
| 00:13 | <Hixie> | ...but the definition still has all the problems bjoern listed |
| 00:13 | <Hixie> | lovely |
| 00:14 | <Hixie> | ok so that's a waste of time... |
| 00:15 | <annevk> | btw, your suggestion about using some advanced form of generated content sounds like over engineering to me as <q> is not that much used anyway |
| 00:28 | <Hixie> | wow, <q> is used more than <dfn> and <del> and <ins> |
| 00:28 | <Hixie> | not as often as <ilayer>, <bgsound>, and <blink>, but... |
| 00:29 | <Philip`> | From 8K pages I saw 2 q, 8 dfn, 3 del, 2 ins |
| 00:29 | <Philip`> | which isn't really enough to detect a significant difference |
| 00:30 | <Hixie> | you see four times more pages that use <dfn> than <q> and you don't think it's enough to detect a difference? |
| 00:30 | <Philip`> | I see six more pages that use the dfn than q, and I don't think that's significant :-) |
| 00:30 | <Hixie> | oh i guess root-8k is ~90 |
| 00:30 | <jmb> | that rather depends on how well your sample set maps to the global set :) |
| 00:31 | <Philip`> | In 130K pages, I see 59 q and 158 dfn |
| 00:31 | <Philip`> | which is a significant difference |
| 00:31 | <Hixie> | well back in 2007 i saw, out of ~3bn files, about 4.1 million <blink>, and about 3.9 million <q>, and about 3.3 million <dfn>. |
| 00:32 | <Philip`> | I see 807 blink |
| 00:32 | <Hixie> | wow so you see an order of magnitude difference where i see basically nothing |
| 00:32 | <Hixie> | not sure what that tells us |
| 00:32 | <Hixie> | but it tells us something! |
| 00:34 | <jmb> | dmoz.org likes pages that use blink? :) |
| 00:35 | <Philip`> | I have no idea if blink has the same huge cultural differences as marquee |
| 00:36 | <Philip`> | (30% of .cn sites in dmoz.org use marquee, vs 3% of all sites) |
| 00:56 | Philip` | finds it ironic that an email reply on unicore⊙uo causes "Øistein" to display as "�istein" |
| 02:11 | <Lachy> | Hixie, what is the real benefit of using <q> if quotation marks have to be provided manually? |
| 04:01 | <Hixie> | Lachy: let's you do things like pullquotes |
| 08:58 | <Hixie> | an unbelievable number of people apparently read through that entire 3000 line e-mail |
| 10:02 | <annevk> | Hixie, the nested quote example misses an end tag |
| 10:07 | <Hixie> | thanks fixed |
| 14:30 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: was it you who had implemented the outliner? |
| 16:10 | jgraham | wonders if gsnedders reads the logs |
| 16:16 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Yes |
| 16:17 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: can I coerce my way into getting the code? |
| 16:18 | <jgraham> | I have no idea. But there's no need because you can simply download it from t' internet |
| 16:20 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: from where? |
| 16:20 | jgraham | is just checking it is actually on the internet |
| 16:22 | <jgraham> | Hmm. Maybe it isn't on the internet yet. |
| 16:22 | jgraham | goes to fix that |
| 16:22 | <gsnedders> | then can I coerce my way to it? :P |
| 16:55 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Since I'm being so slow doing this properly: http://james.html5.org/temp/outline/ |
| 16:56 | <jgraham> | (the code is kinda sucky btw) |
| 16:56 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: the .py gives me 500 |
| 16:57 | <jgraham> | Can't you do Save to Disk? |
| 16:57 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: that'll just save the 500 result |
| 16:58 | <jgraham> | Hmm. That would make sense I suppose |
| 16:58 | <gsnedders> | :) |
| 17:00 | gsnedders | can just wait for it to be done properly, FWIW, jgraham |
| 17:43 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Not done properly (I got distracted) but you should be able to download it now |
| 17:44 | <gsnedders> | yay! I can has get it! |
| 21:31 | <Hixie> | ok, i've dealt with all the feedback from 2004... |
| 21:32 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: when do you think 2005 will be done? |
| 21:32 | <Hixie> | no idea |
| 21:36 | Philip` | changes his system clock back four years and sends an email |
| 21:40 | jgraham | wonders whether he should post anything to the alt thread |
| 21:40 | gsnedders | has so far resisted |
| 21:40 | <Philip`> | Depends on whether you have something to say that hasn't been said before in the three million prior threads :-) |
| 21:41 | <gsnedders> | @alt is evil! Kill it! |
| 21:42 | <Philip`> | Get rid of <img alt> and add <link rel="alternate accessible"> to solve the accessibility use case |
| 21:43 | <gsnedders> | where <img> is the content of the <link> element |
| 21:44 | <jgraham> | Philip`: I don't know if I'm saying anything new or not anymore. Or whether it doesn't matter because no one remembers what anyone else has said anyway |
| 21:44 | jgraham | leaves the email half written instead |
| 21:51 | <bzed> | jgraham: sorry to bother you again, but wthat's the lxml status? :) |
| 21:53 | <jgraham> | bzed: lxml should work now. There are four tests in the liberal xml parser that fail on my system and which need to be sorted out but everything else seems to be OK |
| 21:54 | jgraham | needs to send an email about that as well |
| 21:54 | <bzed> | cool |
| 21:55 | <bzed> | are there any plans for a new (beta...alpha... whatever) release? if somehow possible I'd like to get a proper, well working release into debian |
| 21:56 | <gsnedders> | (FWIW, I should be able to do some work on html5lib if needed end of May after all my exams (apart from Computing) are over) |
| 21:57 | <gsnedders> | (Computing doesn't count. I'll get the highest band of A anyway :P) |
| 21:57 | <gsnedders> | </arrogance> |
| 22:00 | <jgraham> | bzed: Yeah, we'll do a release sometime after the last few tests pass |
| 22:01 | jgraham | grumbles about code.google.com being slow |
| 22:01 | <bzed> | any idea when that will be? |
| 22:01 | <jgraham> | bzed: "When it's ready" :-p (seriously, it should be very soon) |
| 22:02 | <bzed> | I'm not sure when the release managers will go on with the freeze of lenny |
| 22:02 | <bzed> | as soonb as it's frozen, it would be hard to get a big patch/new version in, so tha tshould happen before |
| 22:03 | <jgraham> | bzed: I can make a release branch for you now if it will help |
| 22:04 | <jgraham> | Then you could just pull small fixes |
| 22:05 | <bzed> | jgraham: not necessary now, but I'll ping you if that would be needed |
| 22:06 | <bzed> | jgraham: some of the release managers are working at the same company then I do, so I usually know if things will happen |
| 22:07 | <jgraham> | bzed: OK. I will get the ball rolling on the release a bit this evening |
| 22:08 | <bzed> | jgraham: thanks a lot |
| 22:12 | <jgraham> | np |
| 22:13 | <Hixie> | anyone here play brawl? |
| 22:14 | <annevk> | if you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl not available yet... |
| 22:14 | <Hixie> | i've played with people in norway |
| 22:14 | <Hixie> | how is it not available yet? |
| 22:16 | <annevk> | hmm, maybe I missed something |
| 22:29 | <jgraham> | Gah, you're just baiting the Wii-less ;) |
| 22:30 | <Pavlov> | Hixie: it is out |
| 22:31 | <Pavlov> | oh |
| 22:31 | <Pavlov> | nm |
| 22:33 | <Hixie> | yeah, i'm trying to find peopel to play with me :-) |
| 22:33 | <Pavlov> | ah |
| 22:33 | <Pavlov> | i've been meaning to pick it up |
| 23:27 | <Lachy> | I haven't seen any new, significant arguments presented in the alt attribute thread. Resonding to it would likely only result in repeating what I have already said. |