| 00:11 | <annevk> | Hixie, lol |
| 00:11 | annevk | finds 'An end tag whose tag name is "sarcasm"' |
| 00:18 | <Dashiva> | annevk: How many angry outbursts for not taking the w3c seriously will that trigger, I wonder :) |
| 00:19 | <annevk> | I'm sure people will complain, because as defined it does exactly nothing |
| 00:24 | <Hixie> | it requires you to take a deep breath! |
| 00:24 | Hixie | applies the first sticker to his laptop |
| 00:25 | <Dashiva> | Hixie: Is that a normative requirement? |
| 00:25 | <Dashiva> | Because I think it will be exceedingly difficult to add breathing capabilities to most user agents |
| 00:26 | <annevk> | that's just a platform limitation |
| 00:26 | <Hixie> | Dashiva: yup |
| 00:26 | <Hixie> | annevk: indeed |
| 00:26 | Hixie | is happy with his sticker ("My other computer is a data center") |
| 00:27 | <Dashiva> | Not a beowulf cluster of toasters? |
| 00:27 | <Hixie> | no, my other computer really is a data center, that's why i like it :-) |
| 00:28 | <Philip`> | But you have to share it with a hundred million other users, whereas my computers are all mine |
| 00:29 | <Hixie> | no comment |
| 00:29 | <Dashiva> | My other computer is standing in the hallway, waiting for the electrician to show up and make a properly earthed power outlet |
| 00:29 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 00:30 | <Hixie> | hey |
| 00:30 | <Hixie> | this <li> problem is just because i'm not faking an end tag |
| 00:34 | <annevk> | so <datalist> requires a new insertion model |
| 00:34 | <Hixie> | why? |
| 00:34 | <annevk> | for <option>? |
| 00:34 | <Hixie> | i just plan to make <option> into a phrasing element with some magic for optional end tags |
| 00:35 | <annevk> | Opera treats <option> "like" <option/> |
| 00:37 | <annevk> | IE does something similar (plus the /OPTION weirdness for the end tag) |
| 00:37 | <annevk> | Firefox just drops it |
| 00:37 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 00:38 | <Hixie> | but i can't see any way that treating it like <span> could break anything |
| 00:38 | <annevk> | option { background:lime } |
| 00:39 | <annevk> | but maybe it's feasible |
| 00:39 | <Hixie> | yeah but do any pages do that while also having one in the middle of nowhere? |
| 00:39 | <annevk> | for <datalist> Opera seems to do something similar to <select> except that <select> is allowed as child |
| 00:39 | <annevk> | that doesn't seem good |
| 00:40 | <Hixie> | indeed |
| 01:19 | <Hixie> | ok well i think this fixes the main problems |
| 01:25 | <Philip`> | jgraham_: test and install works for me on that version |
| 01:30 | <Philip`> | jgraham_: but it fails when I use something with a different version of simplejson |
| 01:34 | <Philip`> | (In particular: Works with simplejson 1.7.1 in python2.5; fails with 1.9.1 in python2.4) |
| 01:36 | <Philip`> | (It doesn't like non-ASCII in test1.test) |
| 01:38 | <Philip`> | Lots of tests fails with BeautifulSoup-3.0.6 in python2.4 |
| 01:49 | <Philip`> | Hmm, how nice - BeautifulSoup has decl.string == 'html', but unicode(decl.string) == '<!html>' |
| 01:50 | <Philip`> | except in Python 2.4 unicode(decl.string) == 'html' |
| 02:22 | <Philip`> | jgraham_: I've committed some changes that are needed for some versions of Python I have; otherwise it seems to work fine in my 2.3/2.4/2.5 Pythons, except for the title=foo=bar test that you seem to have fixed in your zipped version, and except for some hex overflow warnings in Python 2.3 |
| 03:21 | <MikeSmith> | "thanks for waiting" |
| 03:22 | <MikeSmith> | what the hell else choice do we have? |
| 03:22 | <MikeSmith> | wait, I guess we could offer to write the "paper" for them |
| 03:22 | <MikeSmith> | I think I'll do that |
| 03:22 | <MikeSmith> | this weekend |
| 03:27 | <Philip`> | <datatemplate> scares me :-( |
| 03:32 | <Philip`> | Mutual recursion is great |
| 03:32 | <Philip`> | s/great/evil/ |
| 03:39 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 03:40 | <Dashiva> | Mutual recursion is recursing mutually is mutual recursion? |
| 04:00 | <Philip`> | Maybe I shouldn't send emails trying to explain nasty complicated algorithms at 4am :-/ |
| 04:01 | <Dashiva> | Maybe I should be asleep at 5 am... |
| 04:01 | <Philip`> | I reason that the birds outside aren't asleep, so I don't see why I ought to be |
| 04:03 | <Dashiva> | Too bad you didn't reason like that when they were asleep :) |
| 04:04 | <Philip`> | I was too busy with <datatemplate>s to be able to reason :-) |
| 04:05 | <Philip`> | (Also playing PAA:OtRSPoD:E1, which is possibly less useful) |
| 05:57 | <takkaria> | Philip`: I do often wonder if you ever sleep at all |
| 06:47 | heycam` | curses HttpURLConnection's refusal to accept a non-standard HTTP method |
| 08:26 | <annevk> | Philip`, I found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenberg–Marquardt_algorithm |
| 08:27 | <annevk> | but then I don't know about either that algorithm or <datagrid> to connect the dots |
| 08:28 | <annevk> | know enough* |
| 08:35 | <annevk> | http://simonwillison.net/2008/Jun/6/patent/ :o |
| 08:49 | <Hixie> | that algorithm has nothing to do with it |
| 08:49 | <Hixie> | the "levenberg" algorithm in the spec is just what josh came up with when i asked him how to solve the problem |
| 08:50 | <annevk> | ok, so what Philip` said :) |
| 08:50 | <Hixie> | yup |
| 09:15 | <hsivonen> | hmm. the 2005 DOM Core threads about aligning the spec with the real world are sad |
| 09:21 | <annevk> | we should just rebrand the DOM specs to Web DOM specs so there's no confusion |
| 09:21 | <annevk> | Web DOM -> Web, DOM specs -> well... |
| 09:25 | <annevk> | Hmm, they're standardizing UA sniffing with a really complicated server side API... http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/DDWG/drafts/api/080602 |
| 11:13 | <annevk> | view source: http://jarvklo.se/ :) |
| 11:16 | <annevk> | http://cafe.elharo.com/web/refactoring-html/why-xhtml/#comment-235640 "They attempt to destroy standards by insisting on mindless conformance to them, all practical experience to the contrary." yup... |
| 11:17 | annevk | was hoping nobody would figure it out |
| 11:49 | <jgraham_> | Does anyone have a strong opinion on whether html5lib should accept e.g. utf8 as a synonym for utf-8? |
| 11:50 | <annevk> | html5 says we should I think |
| 11:50 | <gsnedders> | yeah, they're identical per html5 |
| 11:50 | <jgraham_> | Oh, that must have changed since I last looked at this |
| 11:50 | <gsnedders> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#charset |
| 11:50 | <annevk> | likely |
| 11:51 | <gsnedders> | It was a fairly recent change |
| 11:51 | <gsnedders> | actually, that's not it |
| 11:51 | <annevk> | jgraham_, when is your blogpost going online? |
| 11:51 | <jgraham_> | annevk: About @media? After Lachy outs the slides online... (hint ;) ) |
| 11:51 | <gsnedders> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#character0 — that's the right link |
| 11:52 | <annevk> | Lachy, ^^ |
| 11:52 | <annevk> | or http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/parsing.html#character0 |
| 11:52 | <gsnedders> | http://bugs.simplepie.org/repositories/entry/sp1/trunk/create.php — that's what I use now |
| 11:53 | <annevk> | I wonder if we can make it a fixed list of character encodings |
| 11:53 | <gsnedders> | annevk: in the spec? |
| 11:53 | <annevk> | yes |
| 11:53 | <gsnedders> | That would be nice. |
| 11:53 | <annevk> | a list of Web character encodings |
| 11:54 | gsnedders | notes in his new impl. he does support UTF-32 (but on PHP 5 everything is stored as UTF-32 binary strings) |
| 11:55 | <annevk> | omg, idiots |
| 11:55 | <gsnedders> | Simply because perf. of things like substr() would be terrible using anything that sometimes used more than one word per codepoint |
| 11:55 | <gsnedders> | annevk: ? |
| 11:55 | <annevk> | storings things in UTF-32 is a design flaw |
| 11:56 | <virtuelv> | anyone looked at eric meyer's linking proposal? |
| 11:56 | <gsnedders> | annevk: Find any other way to do stuff performantly :( |
| 11:56 | <annevk> | gsnedders, even with UTF-32 you can have a single character spanning multiple code points |
| 11:56 | <jgraham_> | gsnedders: the substring argument may be optimizing for the wrong thing |
| 11:57 | <gsnedders> | annevk: As far as I can see substr() natively on PHP 6 just does it to codepoints, not characters |
| 11:57 | <annevk> | in that case basing it on UTF-16 would be better |
| 11:57 | <gsnedders> | jgraham_: It optimises for most optimisations, though, doing that (it's also the cheapest to decode/encode to) |
| 11:57 | <hsivonen> | annevk: no, you can't, but you can have a grapheme cluster spanning code points |
| 11:57 | <annevk> | as that's at least compatible with the DOM/JavaScript etc. |
| 11:57 | <jgraham_> | gsnedders: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2008/01/string_theory.html |
| 11:58 | <gsnedders> | annevk: Why? Then I have to scan through the string trying to find surrogates |
| 11:58 | <annevk> | hsivonen, is that the same as combined characters? |
| 11:59 | <hsivonen> | annevk: yeah |
| 12:00 | <annevk> | (that's what I meant) |
| 12:00 | <gsnedders> | annevk: UTF-16 will be slower. What might be quicker is having duplicate code paths, one for ASCII only UTF-8, and another for UTF-8 (when using the actual UTF-8 codepath it'll be slower than UTF-32 though) |
| 12:01 | <annevk> | UTF-32 doesn't handle combined characters |
| 12:01 | <gsnedders> | I know. |
| 12:01 | <annevk> | and eats up way too much memory and is more or less obsolete anyway as far as anyone is concerned |
| 12:01 | <gsnedders> | PHP is just too slow :( |
| 12:08 | <gsnedders> | If I were to use UTF-8 or UTF-16 I need to manually iterate over the string for things like substr to count the number of characters I'd got past, taking into account multi-byte sequences, and surrogates. With UTF-32, I can just use PHP's built-in substr function, as each codepoint is four bytes. |
| 12:08 | <gsnedders> | iterating over a string is VERY slow in PHP when you're having to watch it as a unicode string (decoding is far too slow) |
| 12:12 | <hsivonen> | if you aren't Mozilla or Opera, you should probably just use whatever UTF-* your language + its built-in string library use |
| 12:14 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: In the case of PHP 5, that's binary strings, and no Unicode. |
| 12:17 | <hsivonen> | I don't know about PHP 5, but in PHP 4 it means byte strings with UTF-8 in them or int arrays with UTF-32 code unit per array slot |
| 12:18 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: Perl stores UTF-8 internally, and its substr() performance doesn't seem to be unacceptable |
| 12:18 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: PHP 5 is the same as PHP 4 |
| 12:19 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: It has the advantage of not needing to try and operate it in the interpreted userland, though, but in the compiled interpreter |
| 12:19 | <gsnedders> | (PHP 6, however, has Unicode support) |
| 12:19 | <gsnedders> | I want something that can behave identically on PHP 5 and PHP 6, while using PHP 6's native support |
| 12:20 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: Oh, by "on PHP 5 everything is stored as UTF-32 binary strings" do you mean that you chose to store everything as UTF-32 because PHP doesn't do Unicode strings at all, as opposed to meaning that PHP itself stores Unicode strings as UTF-32? |
| 12:21 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: PHP < 6 (which isn't out yet) doesn't do any Unicode |
| 12:21 | <Philip`> | Ah |
| 12:21 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: Well, there are some extensions that cope, one that is enabled by default, but it stops processing on the first invalid byte |
| 12:21 | <gsnedders> | and it has all kinds of bugs |
| 12:22 | <annevk> | good times |
| 12:22 | <annevk> | i'm glad my blog doesn't require the complex PHP bits |
| 12:22 | <annevk> | such as substr() :D |
| 12:22 | <Philip`> | It's strange how a toy language can become so popular ;-) |
| 12:22 | <gsnedders> | (and as PHP 6 is even less backwards compatible than PHP 5 was, and PHP 5 had slow uptake) |
| 12:23 | <hsivonen> | PHP is aimed at people who should be given all the high-level library support imaginable, but then what PHP does with strings is the kind of thing portable C does |
| 12:23 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: PHP just generally sucks. |
| 12:23 | <hsivonen> | i.e. giving just a run of bytes without any Unicode libraries |
| 12:23 | <hsivonen> | yes, PHP sucks |
| 12:23 | <hsivonen> | I walked away from PHP years ago |
| 12:23 | <gsnedders> | It's not just strings. Everything sucks. |
| 12:24 | <hsivonen> | my latest encounter with PHP was patching the WHATWG blog and the experience made me unhappy |
| 12:24 | <hsivonen> | I should have know better and stayed away |
| 12:24 | <annevk> | yet for the simple stuff it's easier than anything else |
| 12:24 | <gsnedders> | Most common bug report on SP: it just stops output! (this happens to normally be PHP crashing Apache) |
| 12:24 | <hsivonen> | annevk: if "simple" means "I don't know yet that I need to care about Unicode" |
| 12:24 | <gsnedders> | annevk: I'd say stuff like Python and Ruby is just as easy |
| 12:24 | <annevk> | though maybe that's because there's so much to copy and paste from |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | hsivonen, right |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | people have written all kinds of simple software in PHP you can learn how to do things from and improve upon |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | I haven't found nearly as much for Python |
| 12:26 | <annevk> | Python documentation is also quite crappy |
| 12:26 | <gsnedders> | annevk: Yeah, but at least with Python most of the docs there are _is_ right |
| 12:26 | <gsnedders> | annevk: With PHP, half of it is wrong |
| 12:27 | <hsivonen> | Java seems to have the best docs |
| 12:27 | gsnedders | will likely have no real exposure to Java till he's at uni |
| 12:27 | <Philip`> | Java documentation seems to always tell me how stuff works, but never tells me how to do stuff |
| 12:28 | <hsivonen> | right, Java has great per method docs. but often it is hard to learn the big picture for a new library |
| 12:28 | <Philip`> | If I don't know the class name I'm looking for, I end up having to search random web pages to find relevant links |
| 12:32 | <Dashiva> | Vector vs ArrayList, discuss |
| 12:32 | <hsivonen> | deprecade Vector. end of discussion :-) |
| 12:32 | <hsivonen> | deprecate |
| 12:35 | <annevk> | what Philip` says about Java is probably true for Python as well |
| 12:36 | <annevk> | Python should have some clear docs on dealing with HTML form submission / dealing with request URIs / dealing with databases |
| 12:42 | <Philip`> | I think it's probably true for all languages that I'm familiar with |
| 12:43 | <Dashiva> | I suppose it'd be false for languages with no standard library, though :) |
| 12:43 | <annevk> | might be, for me it was just that there was enough sample PHP code around to figure out how to make blog software / simple cms software, etc. |
| 12:44 | <Philip`> | Dashiva: Do any such languages exist? Everything seems to at least have standard string functions, and it'd be pretty useless without those :-) |
| 12:44 | <jgraham_> | The python documentation for 2.6 is getting better http://docs.python.org/dev/ |
| 12:45 | <Dashiva> | Philip`: Well, you'd define functions required to non-uselessness as part of the language, not the library |
| 12:45 | <Philip`> | The 2.6 docs look less like latex2html, which is nice |
| 12:45 | <Philip`> | Dashiva: I wouldn't :-p |
| 12:46 | <Dashiva> | Besides, strings are overrated. |
| 12:46 | <Philip`> | Dashiva: e.g. C has a standard library, and without it the language would be pretty useless until you built up everything yourself from scratch, but that's still a standard library |
| 12:46 | <Philip`> | Indeed, we should use ropes instead |
| 12:48 | jgraham_ | suggests that GUI design 101 should cover not putting "Copy" and "Close Window" next to each other |
| 12:48 | <hsivonen> | modern C software has to use a string library that isn't provided by the "standard" library |
| 12:48 | Philip` | suggests the OS should have an "undo" button, that can undo the closing of windows |
| 12:50 | <annevk> | jgraham_, still not quite focused on Web programming it seems |
| 12:51 | <jgraham_> | annevk: Sure. But better than the old documentation |
| 12:52 | <annevk> | take http://docs.python.org/dev/howto/index.html for instance |
| 12:52 | <annevk> | where's HTTP and python, HTML forms and python, MySQL and python ? |
| 12:52 | <Dashiva> | Do you really have to use urllib to urlencode something for use in urllib2? |
| 12:53 | <jgraham_> | annevk: That section's new. I guess contributions are welcome :) |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | once i'll figure it out i'll let them know :p |
| 12:54 | <jgraham_> | http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebProgramming might be more informative |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | well, i have figured it out to some extent, but what i'm doing feels rather clumsy |
| 12:58 | <annevk> | hah, that wiki page endorses my naive approach |
| 13:03 | <annevk> | http://webpython.codepoint.net/introduction is quite nice |
| 13:03 | <annevk> | (links at the bottom) |
| 13:05 | <hsivonen> | hmm. If I read a text node from the DOM in IE8 mode, line breaks are normalized to single spaces |
| 13:05 | <hsivonen> | what's up with that? |
| 13:07 | <Philip`> | What if you set white-space:pre on that element? |
| 13:10 | <Philip`> | Seems the same as IE6/7 to me - whitespace is normalised except on elements where it's preserved (like <pre>, or <... style="white-space:pre">) |
| 13:11 | <hsivonen> | style="white-space:pre" helps in IE7 |
| 13:11 | <roc> | freaky |
| 13:12 | <Philip`> | (innerHTML does the same normalisation) |
| 13:14 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: doesn't help in IE8 mode |
| 13:17 | Philip` | encounters a way to get IE stuck in an infinite loop |
| 13:17 | <Philip`> | The Live DOM Viewer ought to have an autosave feature :-( |
| 13:19 | <annevk> | and community features so you can rate each others code and comment on it |
| 13:19 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cmeta%20http-equiv%3Dx-ua-compatible%20content%3Die%3D8%3E%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3Dwhite-space%3Apre%3Etest%0Atest%3C%2Fdiv%3E in IE8 in IE8 mode shows the non-normalised newline in the DOM view |
| 13:22 | <annevk> | http://lxyedwarddudley.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/authoring-html-5-a-supplicate-in-warp-and-woof-professionals/ :o |
| 13:22 | <gsnedders> | You do realise the p element exists for a reason? |
| 13:23 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: I'm looking at http://hsivonen.iki.fi/test/moz/document-write-cr.html |
| 13:24 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: the last script is followed by CR |
| 13:24 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: otherwise the line breaks in the source are LFs |
| 13:24 | Philip` | guesses that's based on http://www.w3.org/QA/2007/06/html5-call-to-web-professionals.html |
| 13:26 | <Dashiva> | That page makes my head hurt, annevk |
| 13:32 | Dashiva | wonders what the Functional Ashcan school is |
| 13:39 | <Philip`> | Oh, great, IE changes the DOM when access .firstChild on certain elements |
| 13:44 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: are the assumptions in my test wrong? |
| 13:45 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: You may be assuming that IE is sane :-) |
| 13:47 | Philip` | gives up trying to understand what it's doing |
| 13:49 | <Philip`> | http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cmeta%20http-equiv%3Dx-ua-compatible%20content%3Die%3D8%3E%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3Dwhite-space%3Apre%3Etest%0Atest%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0A%3Cscript%3Ewindow.onload%3Dfunction()%7B%0Avar%20d%20%3D%20document.getElementsByTagName('div')%5B0%5D%3B%0Aw(d.childNodes.length)%0Aw(d.childNodes%5B0%5D.nodeValue.replace(%2F(.)%2Fg%2Cfunction(m)%7Breturn%20m.charCodeAt(0)%2B'%20'%7D))%3B%0AsetTime |
| 13:49 | <Philip`> | Urgh |
| 13:49 | <Philip`> | http://tinyurl.com/66d3mz |
| 13:50 | <Philip`> | In IE8, that logs "1", then "116 101 115 116 32 116 101 115 116", then "2" |
| 13:50 | <Philip`> | and the DOM view shows the text being split into two text nodes |
| 13:50 | <Philip`> | and if I remove the second w() line then it stays as a single text node |
| 13:52 | <Philip`> | But I get different behaviour in my fork of the DOM viewer - it says "13" instead of "32", and "1" instead of "2" |
| 14:07 | jgraham_ | guesses someone has been reading too much Joyce or Pynchon |
| 14:24 | <annevk> | http://www.theologyonline.com/newgod/ |
| 14:25 | <Dashiva> | god5? |
| 14:25 | <Dashiva> | Oh, 6 |
| 14:25 | <Dashiva> | Must be Dmitry up to his old tricks again |
| 14:31 | <annevk> | I still wonder who did Bible5 |
| 14:31 | <annevk> | it seems to be copy and pasted all over the place, e.g. http://www.biroblu.info/2007/05/例如-对于后点-现在简化汉字主要通行于中国大陆/ |
| 14:33 | <annevk> | in other news, that press release is supposed to go out this month, we better hurry up with XML5, SVG5, etc. :D |
| 14:34 | <Philip`> | It doesn't matter if we miss the deadline - we can just define Calendar5 at some point in the future, so dates can mean whatever we want them to mean |
| 14:35 | <Dashiva> | Or we could just use existing implementations |
| 14:35 | <Dashiva> | Valve has a good one, I hear |
| 14:36 | <annevk> | must. be. backwards. compatible |
| 14:36 | <Dashiva> | Just define everything before Anno Valvensis as "long ago" |
| 15:18 | <Dashiva> | I find it amusing that python raises an exception on 'raise', for not being a valid raise statement |
| 15:52 | <Philip`> | Dashiva: It is a valid raise statement, as long as it's in the dynamic scope of an except block |
| 15:52 | <Dashiva> | Yeah, but not outside |
| 15:53 | <Dashiva> | So I say "Give me an exception" and it goes "No, you can't have one. I'm going to make an exception because you did it wrong." |
| 15:57 | <Philip`> | It can be valid if it's outside an except block |
| 15:57 | <Philip`> | as long as there's another except block which it's still inside :-) |
| 15:59 | <Philip`> | Hmm, it appears it always re-throws the most recently thrown exception, rather than actually doing dynamic scoping, which seems kind of like a bug in Python |
| 17:00 | <hsivonen> | hmm. when pronouncing WCAG, is the vowel (i vs. e) inserted between W and C freeform or dependent on en-AU, en-GB, en-US, etc.? |
| 19:03 | <Lachy> | hsivonen, it's not really dependant on anything like that. It's just the preference of whoever says it |
| 19:07 | <hsivonen> | Lachy: ok. (I've now also heard recordings where the vowel varies even away from the e-i space) |
| 19:14 | <Lachy> | I've not heard anyone use an e sound. I've heard i, y and uh |
| 19:15 | <hsivonen> | Lachy: I used e to denote the way you pronounce it :-) |
| 19:16 | <Lachy> | huh? I prounounce it like WhyCAG |
| 19:17 | <hsivonen> | hmm. somehow I got an e-like impression from the standards suck episode |
| 19:17 | <hsivonen> | well, doesn't matter |
| 19:19 | <gsnedders> | I pronounce the WC like the word wick |
| 19:20 | <Dashiva> | wickag? |
| 19:20 | <gsnedders> | yeah |
| 19:20 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: is the 'i' as in en-US 'list'? |
| 19:21 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: No |
| 19:21 | <Dashiva> | I mentally equalize the w in wcag with x in xwhatever, so I would always pronounce it separately |
| 19:41 | <gsnedders> | Oh brilliant. |
| 19:41 | <gsnedders> | I click the "confirm your purchase" button and nothing happens. yay. |
| 19:41 | <Philip`> | I avoid the pronunciation problem by never talking about it |
| 19:41 | <gsnedders> | (odd sidenote on that matter: Air France is cheaper than easyjet) |
| 20:53 | Retrieving | #whatwg modes... |
| 21:58 | <jgraham_> | Hmm. I wonder if Laura missed my point about the Python process being "unfair" but arguably producing good results because of it |