| 00:01 | Hixie | tries getting ogg working in safari |
| 00:02 | <nessy> | using xiphqt? |
| 00:03 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 00:03 | <Hixie> | actually i'm having trouble getting safari to play video of any kind |
| 00:03 | <Hixie> | i wonder if my quicktime is broken or something |
| 00:03 | <Hixie> | it doesn't even work on apple.com |
| 00:22 | <nessy> | hmm |
| 00:25 | <nessy> | http://www.double.co.nz/video_test/test3.html works in my safari |
| 00:27 | <nessy> | running safari 3.1.2 on OS X 10.5.4 with XiphQT 0.1.8 |
| 00:41 | <Hixie> | my quicktime is clearly borked |
| 00:46 | <Hixie> | well |
| 00:46 | <Hixie> | <video> in firefox has interesting bugs |
| 00:46 | <Hixie> | such as not stopping when you reload :- |
| 00:46 | <Hixie> | | |
| 00:47 | <gavin> | known issue! |
| 00:47 | <gavin> | (449096) |
| 00:50 | <Hixie> | good to know :-) |
| 00:54 | <Hixie> | hmm |
| 00:54 | <Hixie> | no ontimeupdate? |
| 00:55 | <Hixie> | oh well |
| 00:55 | <gavin> | yeah looks like it isn't implemented |
| 00:55 | <gavin> | don't see any bugs filed |
| 00:56 | <gavin> | ah, looks like 449154 coers it |
| 00:56 | <gavin> | or part of it, at least |
| 00:57 | <gavin> | along with 449159 |
| 00:57 | <Hixie> | timeupdate should fire basically continuously |
| 00:57 | <Hixie> | doesn't seem to be a bug about that |
| 00:57 | <Hixie> | basically timeupdate fires whenever the clock should change |
| 00:57 | <gavin> | oh... |
| 00:57 | <Hixie> | playback, seeking, pausing, etc |
| 00:57 | <gavin> | those bugs only do it for seeking |
| 00:57 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 00:58 | <Hixie> | we really need to start making a test suite for html5 |
| 01:02 | <doublec> | Hixie, why does timeupdate get fired continuously? |
| 01:02 | <doublec> | "The current playback position changed in an interesting way, for example discontinuously. " |
| 01:02 | <doublec> | that doesn't read continuously to me |
| 01:03 | <doublec> | is the intent to really fire it when the clock changes for any reason, including playback? |
| 01:03 | <Hixie> | it |
| 01:03 | <Hixie> | er |
| 01:03 | <Hixie> | it's step 4 of "When the current playback position of a media element changes (e.g. due to playback or seeking)" |
| 01:03 | <doublec> | ie, at the framerate? |
| 01:03 | <Hixie> | which i just noticed is in the wrong section |
| 01:04 | <Hixie> | the idea is that you can update the clock accurately using just one event |
| 01:04 | <Hixie> | so it is precise when seeking, paused, etc, and also updates while playing |
| 01:05 | <doublec> | oh, it's in cue ranges |
| 01:05 | <doublec> | I've ignored that section since apple have been wanting changes |
| 01:07 | <doublec> | (by 'ignore' i mean not made it a priority) |
| 01:08 | <Hixie> | yeah, feedback is building up. I have requests to look at video, offline caching, messageports, and notifications "asap" |
| 01:09 | <Hixie> | need to get this forms thing done |
| 01:09 | <doublec> | might want to change the description of the timeupdate event since it really gets fired whenever the playback position changes |
| 01:09 | <doublec> | rather than just in interesting ways |
| 01:09 | <Hixie> | good idea |
| 01:09 | <doublec> | heh, I don't know how you keep up - everyone wants everything asap :) |
| 01:10 | <Hixie> | though arguably the video itself playing is interesting :-P |
| 01:10 | <doublec> | haha, true |
| 01:10 | <doublec> | depends on the video |
| 01:10 | <Hixie> | re feedback -- eh, usually it's not so bad. it's just that the forms stuff is a long-term project, so things build up. |
| 01:10 | <Hixie> | and pretty much every browser vendor is in the part of their cycle where they're implementing stuff, so they're all interested in getting things changed |
| 01:11 | <Hixie> | s/they/you/ :-) |
| 01:11 | <doublec> | :) |
| 01:17 | <Hixie> | is playbackRate implemented? |
| 01:17 | <Hixie> | hmm |
| 01:17 | <Hixie> | can i ask you a favour? |
| 01:17 | <Hixie> | any chance you could remove the unimplemented items from the idl before you ship? |
| 01:18 | <Hixie> | that way people can do things like if ('totalBytes' in video) { ... } to work around limitations in each implementation |
| 01:22 | <doublec> | Hixie, yes, good idea |
| 01:22 | <doublec> | playbackRate is not implemented in the Ogg backend |
| 01:22 | <doublec> | it is in the gstreamer one |
| 01:22 | Hixie | discovers the looping attributes k |
| 01:22 | <Hixie> | er |
| 01:22 | <Hixie> | what's the syntax you used for the looping attributes? |
| 01:23 | <doublec> | loopend, loopstart, etc |
| 01:23 | <doublec> | not implemented though |
| 01:23 | <Hixie> | ah ok |
| 01:23 | <Hixie> | i meant the value syntax |
| 01:23 | <Hixie> | but if they're not implemented, n/a :-) |
| 01:23 | <doublec> | What does apple do for the value syntax? |
| 01:23 | <Hixie> | no idea |
| 01:23 | <Hixie> | can't get quicktime to work in safari at all |
| 01:23 | <Hixie> | even on apple.com with the quicktime plugin |
| 01:24 | <doublec> | I was just going for a value in seconds for now |
| 01:24 | <Hixie> | something's borked with my install |
| 01:24 | <Hixie> | yeah, a floating point number seems reasonable |
| 01:24 | <Hixie> | i expect i'll make the following be allowed: 7.24 7.24s 4m7.24s 1h4m7.24s |
| 01:25 | <Hixie> | i need to define the parsing model soon though before we end up with a legacy to deal with |
| 01:25 | <doublec> | sounds reasonable |
| 01:26 | <Hixie> | found another bug for you -- if you pause video, go to another page, and go back, it starts playing |
| 01:27 | <doublec> | thanks, I'll add it to the list |
| 01:30 | <doublec> | bug 456316 |
| 01:31 | <Hixie> | is there a way to seek implemented? currentTime = 0 doesn't seem to work |
| 01:32 | <doublec> | bug 449159 fixes that. It's just got a couple of review comments to get fixed up and it'll be in. |
| 01:33 | <doublec> | Ogg and seeking aren't made for each other |
| 01:33 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 01:33 | <Hixie> | k |
| 01:33 | <doublec> | Neither is doing stuff like finding the duration |
| 01:34 | <doublec> | Ogg supports 'chained' files. You can concatenate ogg files together and they play as if it was one |
| 01:34 | <doublec> | which means framerate, size, etc can change during playback |
| 01:34 | <doublec> | And duration has to be computed |
| 01:39 | <Hixie> | that sounds... painful |
| 01:39 | <doublec> | computing duration is, it's crazy |
| 01:40 | <doublec> | the library I'm using doesn't support chained oggs at the moment so I at least don't have to worry about framerate, codec changes, etc midstream |
| 01:40 | <doublec> | but it's needed for things like icecast to work |
| 01:52 | <Hixie> | hey will you look at that i totally forgot to check for cross-domain access in the media features |
| 01:56 | <Hixie> | and new Audio() doesn't work in firefox, it seems |
| 01:56 | <Hixie> | and Opera loads the MP3 but doesn't play it... |
| 01:56 | <Hixie> | maybe I shouldn't demo new Audio(). |
| 01:59 | <doublec> | bug 454971 is new Audio() |
| 01:59 | <doublec> | it's all ready to land |
| 01:59 | <doublec> | I'll use it in my 8080 emulator when it lands |
| 03:17 | <doublec> | If media file is currently in the midst of a seek operation, and a 'play' or 'pause' or another 'seek' is requested, what should happen? |
| 03:18 | <othermaciej> | it should be as if the play, pause or seek had been done after the first completed |
| 03:18 | <othermaciej> | IMO |
| 03:18 | <othermaciej> | (not sure if the spec says that) |
| 03:19 | <doublec> | What if they choose to seek, the seek is in operation ,they then choose to seek again, and again, then play, then pause, then seek, etc |
| 03:19 | <doublec> | should it stack them up? |
| 03:20 | <othermaciej> | it should be as if each completed in order, but since seek is absolute, not relative, right? |
| 03:20 | <othermaciej> | so it makes no difference whether you cancel the pending seek or not |
| 03:20 | <othermaciej> | though obviously play/pause should not cancel seek, just affect the play state once the seek completes |
| 03:21 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: so I am curious why you are preparing all these demos of HTML5 features working in browsers |
| 03:21 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: presentation coming up? |
| 03:24 | <roc> | I think he said it was a Google presentation |
| 03:24 | <roc> | i.e. within Google |
| 03:25 | <othermaciej> | I would go if it is one of the open-to-the-public kind |
| 03:25 | othermaciej | <3s HTML5 |
| 03:26 | <Hixie> | yeah, giving a demo on monday |
| 03:27 | <roc> | doublec: I think that the last seek request and the last play/pause request should be remembered and applied |
| 03:27 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: would it be OK if I borrowed your demos for a presentation I am supposed to give on HTML5 at Apple? |
| 03:27 | <Hixie> | sure |
| 03:29 | <Hixie> | doublec: send mail, and i'll fix the spec to handle the case where you start seeking while seeking is true |
| 03:29 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: we have some demos from WWDC that maybe I could share |
| 03:29 | <doublec> | roc: so v.seek(1); v.seek(2); v.seek(3); will have different hehaviour depending on timing? |
| 03:29 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: though only tested in Safari I think |
| 03:29 | <othermaciej> | like a calendar app that uses both Database storage and LocalStorage |
| 03:29 | <Hixie> | doublec: as far as i can tell, play() and pause() are already well-defined (they're orthogonal to seeking) |
| 03:29 | <othermaciej> | though I guess it's probably too late for me to get them to you for a Monday preso |
| 03:30 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: my plan is to write all the demos on the fly during the presentation |
| 03:30 | <othermaciej> | also have some sexy video demos that include compositing and transforms |
| 03:30 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: (i have no slides) |
| 03:30 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: so they're all pretty small and self-contained |
| 03:30 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: very cool |
| 03:31 | <othermaciej> | ours are fancy |
| 03:31 | <othermaciej> | you know how Apple gets |
| 03:31 | <Hixie> | hehe |
| 03:31 | <doublec> | 'write all the demos on the fly' that's brave :) |
| 03:31 | <Hixie> | well |
| 03:31 | <Hixie> | i'm writing them first |
| 03:31 | <Hixie> | and will print them out :-) |
| 03:31 | <Hixie> | and type them in on the fly :-) |
| 03:31 | <Hixie> | they're all pre-debugged, hence all this work today :-) |
| 03:31 | <roc> | just prerecord your editing session |
| 03:32 | <roc> | then do like lip-syncing, but with your keybaord |
| 03:32 | <gavin> | heh |
| 03:32 | <Hixie> | i think that's what this presentation is going to be -- me recording my editing session :-) |
| 03:35 | <roc> | doublec: yeah I guess, but not really very different behaviour. At some point the video will seek to time 3 and then play from there |
| 04:00 | <Hixie> | i think microsoft broke drag-and-drop with IE8beta23 |
| 04:01 | <Hixie> | 2 |
| 04:01 | <Hixie> | can someone with an older version of IE test http://samples.msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/samples/author/dhtml/refs/obj_dataTransferEX.htm to see if it still works? |
| 04:27 | <Hixie> | christ, IE crashes at the drop of the hat when you do drag-and-drop stuff |
| 07:21 | <heycam> | Hixie, garrett's name in the comments of acid3 is misspelled (missing the second 't'), assuming it's the same garrett who posts to public-html etc. |
| 07:22 | <Hixie> | ah |
| 07:22 | <Hixie> | (thanks) |
| 08:28 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: the warning on http://html5.validator.nu/?=&doc=http%3A%2F%2Fgoogle.com%2Fprivacy%2F is bogus as far as i can tell |
| 08:58 | <Hixie> | ok i'm ready for my talk in 11 hours. |
| 09:00 | <krijnh> | Hixie: what talk? |
| 09:00 | <Hixie> | i'm giving a demo of html5 features at google |
| 09:01 | <krijnh> | Ah |
| 09:01 | <Hixie> | i have no slides, my goal is to just sit in front of an editor and write up 9 demo files on the fly |
| 09:01 | <krijnh> | Do you also talk on conferences? :) |
| 09:01 | <Hixie> | (which i have cunningly prepared and debugged already) |
| 09:01 | <Hixie> | not if i can help it! |
| 09:01 | <krijnh> | Heh |
| 09:05 | krijnh | <strike>s Hixie as a possible speaker for next year :) |
| 09:08 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: are you suggesting removing the warning on "</" inside CDATA? |
| 09:12 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: will the demos be public after the talk? |
| 09:12 | <hsivonen> | or might the whole presentation end up on YouTube/Google Video? |
| 09:13 | <annevk2> | the demos will be public |
| 09:14 | hsivonen | didn't know that historically "deprecate" meant "to pray against evil" |
| 09:15 | <Hixie> | demos are already public, though not in usable form: http://whatwg.org/demos/2008-sept/ |
| 09:17 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: thanks |
| 09:20 | <annevk2> | why should <video> and <audio> not work cross origin by default? |
| 09:21 | <hsivonen> | annevk2: is there something saying they should not? |
| 09:22 | <hsivonen> | I suppose I could just zap the warning... |
| 09:23 | <annevk2> | a bug report |
| 09:23 | <hsivonen> | annevk2: in Opera's bug tracker? |
| 09:23 | <annevk2> | http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6104 |
| 09:23 | <hsivonen> | whoa |
| 09:24 | <hsivonen> | that would pretty radically change the Web works compared to images and iframes |
| 09:24 | <hsivonen> | s/the/the way the/ |
| 09:25 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: er, yes, i was suggesting removing the warning |
| 09:26 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: the spec was changed to make it ok, since people put xml in <script> blocks, and all |
| 09:26 | <Hixie> | annevk2: when we expose metadata, it'll allow cross-origin data transfer |
| 09:26 | <Hixie> | annevk2: same reason we don't want xhr cross-domain, or svg accessible cross-domain |
| 09:26 | <Hixie> | or html |
| 09:27 | <Hixie> | anyway, bed time |
| 09:28 | <annevk2> | we could make the metadata depend on access control |
| 09:30 | <hsivonen> | annevk2: Does AC support a post-GET privilege upgrade check? |
| 09:30 | <annevk2> | you would do it during the GET request |
| 09:30 | <annevk2> | in case of failure you wouldn't stop loading the resource, but you would disallow certain things |
| 09:31 | <hsivonen> | annevk2: ah |
| 09:31 | <hsivonen> | how does AC work with cross-origin images drawn on <canvas>? |
| 09:31 | <hsivonen> | (and trying to read back <canvas> data) |
| 09:31 | <annevk2> | it could enable that if defined by HTML5, yes |
| 09:32 | <annevk2> | pretty much only such use case I could think of so far |
| 09:32 | <hsivonen> | I wonder how far-fetched it would be for someone to put private stuff in glyphs in a font... |
| 09:33 | <roc> | I want to make all new kinds of resource loads to be same-origin by default with Access-Controls support for relaxing that |
| 09:33 | <hsivonen> | roc: why? |
| 09:33 | <roc> | simplicity |
| 09:34 | <roc> | consistency |
| 09:34 | <roc> | protection against unforseen security issues |
| 09:35 | <annevk2> | wow, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/83073/div-vs-table |
| 09:38 | <hsivonen> | annevk2: "wow" at the question or at the answers? |
| 09:38 | <annevk2> | mostly question |
| 09:38 | <hsivonen> | annevk2: and is that a positive or negative "wow"? |
| 09:39 | <annevk2> | mostly negative |
| 09:39 | <annevk2> | also just surprised |
| 09:40 | <hsivonen> | I tend to agree with him that the arguments usually presented against layout tables don't stand the kind of scrutiny we usually subject stuff to here :-) |
| 09:40 | <roc> | I have to confess I think the anti-table-layout sentiment is overblown. There are too many things that are easy to do with tables but hard to do with CSS |
| 09:41 | <hsivonen> | also, the worst layout breakages I've experienced on mobile devices (with proper browser engines!) have been cases where someone has tried to emulate table layouts in CSS |
| 09:42 | <hsivonen> | and things have gotten really badly messed up with thin view ports |
| 09:42 | <hsivonen> | (proper browser engines being Gecko and Presto as of Opera 8) |
| 09:44 | <annevk2> | yeah, CSS is lacking something |
| 09:45 | <annevk2> | hopefully someone gets around publishing and updating flexbox soonish |
| 09:45 | <hsivonen> | CSS positioning is much worse than tables |
| 09:45 | <hsivonen> | and positioning was for a long time put forward as the righteous replacement for tables |
| 09:45 | <hsivonen> | (worse in the sense that stuff breaks on view ports that the author did not expect) |
| 10:01 | <hsivonen> | yet another anecdote about broken longdesc: http://html4all.org/pipermail/list_html4all.org/2008-September/000999.html |
| 10:37 | <hendry> | anyone know if I can to test if a iframe is responsive? (didn't have JS crash) |
| 10:38 | <hsivonen> | hendry: if you control the iframe, perhaps have a postMessage ping protocol? |
| 10:40 | <hendry> | hsivonen: reference? will that work on crap browsers like pocket IE? |
| 10:40 | <hsivonen> | hendry: the HTML5 spec. and no, it won't work in crap browsers |
| 10:41 | <hsivonen> | hendry: does your boss make you support pocket IE? |
| 10:41 | <hendry> | hsivonen: it's an example of an old browser |
| 10:41 | <hendry> | hsivonen: basically working on sunspider to make it work when JS crashes in an iframe in some older (mobile) browsers |
| 10:42 | <annevk2> | <iframe onload=...> or something? |
| 10:43 | <hendry> | annevk2: don't understand... how would i know JS has crashed/stopped processing? a timeout? |
| 10:44 | <annevk2> | oh, hmm |
| 10:44 | <annevk2> | maybe you could run some interval in the outer frame that updates or polls some information from the inner frame |
| 10:44 | <hendry> | http://perf.webvm.net/sunspider-0.9/sunspider-driver.html is what i am working on btw |
| 10:45 | <hsivonen> | hendry: why do you care about benchmarking browsers that are too broken to run sunspider |
| 10:45 | <annevk2> | (I wouldn't use setInterval, but rather setTimeout that itself sets setTimeout from its callback function to prevent it from stalling everything) |
| 10:47 | <hendry> | hsivonen: i find it interesting :) though seriously i would like to come up with a generic test driver that can proceed in cases where the JS crashes. It's probably need done somewhere? |
| 10:47 | <hendry> | s/need/been |
| 10:48 | <hsivonen> | hendry: if you are willing to edit the contents of the iframe, you could make the outer page set a function on the window object of the iframe and have the iframe send heartbeat by calling the function |
| 10:48 | <hsivonen> | (see Hixie's live dom viewer for how to set it up) |
| 10:51 | <hendry> | hsivonen: thanks, looks promising |
| 10:56 | <annevk2> | o_O http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-forum/2008JulSep/0267.html (W3C Member-only) |
| 11:14 | <roc> | someone should tell him that if you subscribe to whatwg and not public-html, it's no trouble at all to keep up |
| 11:14 | <roc> | hmm, the message just before that is interesting |
| 11:15 | <roc> | the truth is, there was a flurry of activity, then I posted to the list (via dbaron) and all activity ceased |
| 11:15 | <roc> | FEAR ME |
| 11:21 | <hendry> | http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20070703#l-518 # testframe.onerror is not catching JS errors in FF3 :/ |
| 12:38 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: the warning is now gone |
| 18:18 | <jgraham> | Oh wow, we're going to have the whole "should browsers have one rendering engine per html mode" argument again. public-html is like the white hole episode of red dwarf only less funny |
| 18:23 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Are you aware of any discrepancies between the html5 spec and the html5lib test suite? |
| 18:27 | <Dashiva> | jgraham: But it's still somewhat funny? |
| 18:28 | <jgraham> | Dashiva: Yes. |
| 18:29 | <annevk2> | public-html is becoming more and more useless :/ |
| 18:30 | <gsnedders> | annevk2: It became that a long time ago. |
| 18:31 | <gsnedders> | annevk2: Is <http://anolis.quuz.org/source>; up-to-date? |
| 18:32 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I haven't done a svn up for a while, but <option> in body stuff changed |
| 18:32 | <hsivonen> | might be fixed already in the repo. |
| 18:35 | hallvors | wonders why building the old W3C test suites is so complicated.. :-p |
| 18:35 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: OK. I guess I can just look for the stuff in the tests that doesn't work as a reasonable approximation of all the brokenness |
| 18:38 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: the option stuff is still broken |
| 18:38 | <hsivonen> | I just did an svn up |
| 18:38 | <hsivonen> | and it crashes my harness |
| 18:56 | <takkaria> | well, I made a good-faith effort to reply, now I give up |
| 18:59 | <takkaria> | it looks to me lke Sam/Justin don't actually author much in the way of HTML |
| 19:00 | <hsivonen> | lock-in is in the legacy, so leaving the processing of legacy a mystery is bad |
| 19:09 | <annevk2> | gsnedders, yes, I believe it is |
| 19:14 | <annevk2> | wow, I'm still amazed that people on public-html are actually considering the idea of having multiple browser code paths depending on the DOCTYPE |
| 19:16 | <webben> | maybe the whatwg faq needs to say explicitly that all doctypes' parsing will be specified by HTML5. |
| 19:18 | <annevk2> | yeah, that is, that HTML 4.01, XHTML 1.0, etc. as text/html will all be treated as per HTML 5 |
| 19:18 | <webben> | yep |
| 19:20 | <hsivonen> | turned out my test harness needed a bigger mark limit when going back and forth in the test file stream |
| 19:22 | <webben> | I suppose the FAQ could also clarify that in so far as DOCTYPE will be used it would be to switch parsing modes and that HTML5 specifies both the switch and the parsing modes. |
| 19:23 | <webben> | but that these parsing differences are minimal |
| 19:23 | <webben> | (or alternately, expensive(?) but necessary for legacy content) |
| 19:24 | <hsivonen> | the spec doesn't cover quirks mode parsing properly yes |
| 19:24 | <webben> | isn't it going to? |
| 19:24 | <hsivonen> | it is going to |
| 19:24 | <hsivonen> | afaik |
| 19:25 | <webben> | *will specify then :) |
| 19:25 | <hsivonen> | s/yes/yet/ |
| 19:27 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: is it intentional that <title> in 'in body' no longer gets hoisted to <head>? |
| 19:28 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: the test cases also test <title> to head hoisting |
| 19:28 | <Philip`> | A FAQ entry like that would have to explain why HTML5 works that way, rather than just stating that it does, otherwise people will still argue that it should work differently without being aware of the problems |
| 19:29 | <Philip`> | and then it's not really a FAQ entry, and it's more like design rationale documentation or something |
| 19:30 | <annevk2> | hsivonen, <title> shouldn't move |
| 19:30 | <webben> | well, the FAQ could always link to a design rationale note. |
| 19:30 | <annevk2> | can someone formulate a question? |
| 19:30 | annevk2 | can try to fill in the rest |
| 19:30 | <takkaria> | "Why doesn't HTML 5 leave HTML 4 parsing to HTML 4?" |
| 19:30 | <takkaria> | or s/parsing/handling/ |
| 19:31 | <webben> | or more generally: "How will pre-HTML5 be parsed?" |
| 19:31 | <webben> | *pre-HTML5 documents |
| 19:31 | <webben> | doesn't have the word doctype in though |
| 19:32 | <annevk2> | thx |
| 19:32 | <hsivonen> | annevk2: As far as I can tell, 'title' in 'in body' is no longer specified to push the head pointer onto the stack |
| 19:33 | <annevk2> | hsivonen, yes, <body><title>xxx</title></body> should not move <title> |
| 19:34 | <hsivonen> | annevk2: oops. sorry. I misread what you said |
| 19:42 | <annevk2> | http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ#How_are_pre-HTML5_documents_parsed.3F |
| 19:44 | <webben> | annevk2: seems good to me :) |
| 22:58 | <Hixie> | well, my talk will apparently be on youtube in due course |
| 22:58 | <Hixie> | so you can all laugh at my horrible talk :-P |
| 22:59 | <Dashiva> | Did you add a funny accent? |
| 23:01 | <annevk2> | I found http://twitter.com/jaguarjaws/statuses/930818392 and http://twitter.com/tjohns/statuses/930869517 which I believe are directly related to your talk |
| 23:01 | <Hixie> | the biggest "wow" was for type=date which i thought was funny |
| 23:02 | <annevk2> | heh, maybe everyone made a date widget at one point? :) |
| 23:04 | <Hixie> | probably :-) |
| 23:04 | <Hixie> | yeah, those twitters are almost certainly from people who saw the talk |
| 23:08 | <Hixie> | http://www.whatwg.org/demos/2008-sept/ has the demos btw |
| 23:11 | <roc> | your DnD demo has interesting behaviour when you drag across browser windows |
| 23:12 | <Hixie> | heh, didn't try that |
| 23:12 | <Hixie> | what does it do? |
| 23:12 | <Hixie> | oh i guess it gets the local one |
| 23:12 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 23:15 | <roc> | Hixie: MS only took a 3-year break in the development of IE |
| 23:16 | <Hixie> | i ended up not even mentioning that, i should just remove it from the notes |
| 23:17 | <roc> | aw, no offline apps demo |
| 23:19 | <Hixie> | it's fricking hard to demo offline stuff |
| 23:19 | <Hixie> | i considered it, but i was over time anyway, so i stuck with what i had |
| 23:19 | <roc> | yes it is |
| 23:20 | Hixie | updated the widgets/ directory to have all the various demos he did in different files |
| 23:20 | <roc> | we've done it. "Look the app's working. <disconnect network> Look, the app's still working!!!" somehow it's hard to make that exciting |
| 23:21 | <Hixie> | i believe one of my lines was "and now the most surprising thing about this particular demo... (loads the demo in IE, shows that it works) it works in IE! (silence) well I thought it was surprising. Moving on..." |
| 23:21 | <annevk2> | I do mention offline in talks, which is enough to excite people it seems |
| 23:22 | <roc> | it totally lacks the "oooh, shiny" effect |
| 23:22 | <annevk2> | Hixie, hehe |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | someone asked what the status of xhtml was |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | i tried to be politically correct |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | but i'm sure i'll get flamed when the video is seen by people in the xhtml2wg |
| 23:23 | <annevk2> | how long did your talk take? |
| 23:23 | <Hixie> | an hour or so |
| 23:23 | <Hixie> | plus questions |
| 23:23 | Hixie | gave a talk a year or so ago where he said he didn't even want a google-internal video to exist, and in that talk he was highly politically incorrect |
| 23:23 | <Hixie> | that was fun |
| 23:24 | <Hixie> | i think this is my first to-be-publicly-seen talk |
| 23:24 | <annevk2> | that was indeed a fun talk |
| 23:24 | annevk2 | remembers reading the slides in Boston |
| 23:24 | <Hixie> | oh right, i showed you the slides |
| 23:24 | <Hixie> | teehee |
| 23:25 | <Hixie> | i had no slides for my talk today |
| 23:25 | <Hixie> | also a first for me i believe |
| 23:25 | <annevk2> | you just sat there with a laptop? |
| 23:25 | <Hixie> | yup |
| 23:25 | <Hixie> | projected my emacs and showed things in five browsers |
| 23:59 | <blooberry> | hixie: what was the type="date" result that was so "ooooh" worthy? |
| 23:59 | <Hixie> | that it existed at all |