| 00:04 | <kingryan> | Hixie: you around? |
| 00:04 | <Hixie> | yes |
| 00:05 | <kingryan> | i'm working on implementing the foreign content insertion mode |
| 00:05 | <kingryan> | and i find it to be hard to understand |
| 00:05 | <kingryan> | i think i can figure it out, but its structured differently than other modes |
| 00:06 | <Hixie> | anything in particular i can help with? |
| 00:07 | <kingryan> | the hard part is the section like 'A start tag whose tag name is neither "mglyph" nor "malignmark"...' |
| 00:08 | <kingryan> | it seems like that be easier if it were merged with the 'Any other start tag' section |
| 00:08 | <Hixie> | easier to understand, or implement? I don't think it would change the implementation at all, right? |
| 00:08 | <kingryan> | right |
| 00:08 | <kingryan> | easier to understand |
| 00:09 | <Hixie> | the problem is it has to go before the |A start tag whose tag name is one of: "b" ... | section |
| 00:09 | <kingryan> | hmm, i didn't think of that |
| 00:10 | <kingryan> | is it not possible to enumerate the possible elements? |
| 00:10 | <kingryan> | or would that be unwieldy? |
| 00:10 | <Hixie> | 'A start tag whose tag name is neither "mglyph" nor "malignmark"' is an infinite number of elements, so I'm going to go with unwieldy |
| 00:12 | <kingryan> | yeah, i guess i didn't consider the fact that we're talking about more than just mathml and svg |
| 00:13 | <Hixie> | life would be easy were it not for all those pesky non-standard inputs :-) |
| 00:14 | <Hixie> | gotta go, bbiab |
| 00:14 | <kingryan> | k, thanks |
| 04:04 | Hixie | ponders what to do if during an appcache update the server sends back a 500 for a dynamically added entry |
| 05:35 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, some time in the evening, possibly quite late AFAICT |
| 06:00 | <eric_carlson> | Hixie: perusing the logs from last night I see you commented that "merging subtitles into an MPEG stream on the fly is trivial as i understand it" |
| 06:00 | <Hixie> | is my understanding mistaken? :-( |
| 06:01 | <eric_carlson> | Hixie: well, it depends on *which* MPEG you mean. |
| 06:01 | <eric_carlson> | Hixie: it is quite possible for MPEG program streams, but not for MPEG4 files |
| 06:02 | <Hixie> | oh, that's sad |
| 06:02 | <Hixie> | what makes it hard for MPEG4? |
| 06:02 | <eric_carlson> | Hixie: MPEG-4 family files - 3gp, etc |
| 06:02 | <eric_carlson> | Hixie: Yes, they are quite different. |
| 06:03 | <eric_carlson> | Hixie; MPEG-4 files (ISO files) are like IFF files - a sequence of chunks with a type and length. |
| 06:05 | <eric_carlson> | The "table of contents" chunk has byte offsets to every media frame, each chunk of meta data, etc |
| 06:06 | <eric_carlson> | This makes it possible to do random access within the downloaded portions of the file, but it also means that if you add extra data to the file you have to rewrite the sample table since it has byte offsets. |
| 06:07 | <eric_carlson> | An MPEG-1 stream isn't a chunked file, it is just a stream of bits with patterns that allow you to figure out where a frame starts on the fly. |
| 06:08 | <eric_carlson> | This makes it possible to insert data on the fly, but it also make is *much* harder to seek within the file since you don't know where the frame boundaries are. |
| 06:10 | <Hixie> | ah interesting, didn't realise about the table of contents |
| 06:10 | <Hixie> | well that makes the issue of streaming subtitles much harder |
| 06:10 | <Hixie> | is it possible to just stick a stack of subtitles at the front of the video or something? |
| 06:11 | <eric_carlson> | Also true of QuickTime files (ISO files are based on the QuickTime file format) and some ogg files as well. |
| 06:12 | <eric_carlson> | it is really tough to edit a chunk-based file on the fly since every chunk has a length, and offsets within one chunk can refer to data in another chunk. |
| 06:13 | <eric_carlson> | it is *possible* to edit a chunk-base file on the fly, but it is really difficult |
| 06:13 | <Hixie> | that's sad |
| 06:14 | <eric_carlson> | I agree. Chunk-based files are highly optimized for efficient playback. |
| 06:14 | <eric_carlson> | For example - reverse playback isn't *so* hard because you know the offset of every sample :) |
| 06:14 | <eric_carlson> | About subtitles - do you think that a media engines should be responsible for rendering built-in subtitles/closed captions? |
| 06:17 | <Hixie> | i think the <video> element should support (render) the subtitles in the video resource, yes (under the user's control) |
| 06:19 | <eric_carlson> | I am not sure what you mean. In practice the <video> element will be implemented by the "browser engine", which will call on the services of a "media engine" to deal with decoding and synchronizing media. |
| 06:19 | <eric_carlson> | Which part do you see as responsible for rendering the subtitles |
| 06:20 | <Hixie> | from the spec's point of view they are one and the same (the user agent) so it doesn't matter to me |
| 06:20 | <Hixie> | so long as one of them can do it :-) |
| 06:20 | <eric_carlson> | Easy for you to say :) |
| 06:20 | <Hixie> | yup :-) |
| 06:21 | <othermaciej> | on Mac OS X I would say there should be a setting somewhere for whether you get optional subtitles in your video |
| 06:21 | <othermaciej> | whether system setting or browser setting is not that important |
| 06:22 | <othermaciej> | for browsers that do not ship with an OS, and target an OS that doesn't have an appropriate system setting for this, I guess a setting in the browser UI is the only option |
| 06:22 | <eric_carlson> | Agreed, though it gets more complicated when the media file has alternate tracks |
| 06:22 | <othermaciej> | true |
| 06:22 | <eric_carlson> | For different languages, for different accessibility options, etc |
| 06:23 | <Hixie> | i'd expect the ua to at least expose a context menu on the video that has the subtitle, audio, angle tracks (etc) |
| 06:23 | <Hixie> | as, e.g., the mac os x dvd player does |
| 06:23 | <eric_carlson> | if only it was that simple |
| 06:25 | <eric_carlson> | eg. the DVD spec says how alternates should be advertised, and the player says what region the user is in |
| 06:27 | <BenMillard> | eric_carlson, the OS will say what region the user is in? Or at least what language they prefer. |
| 06:28 | <BenMillard> | browsers with an Accept-Language list also give clues about which languages the user is interested in |
| 06:29 | <eric_carlson> | True. |
| 06:30 | <eric_carlson> | Should the spec say which wins? |
| 06:30 | <BenMillard> | I don't know, just trying to inspire hope. :) |
| 06:30 | <BenMillard> | if all else fails, ultimate fallback could be the language of the browser's UI |
| 06:36 | <eric_carlson> | For subtitles and captions, it seems to me that it would be *extremely* useful if the page author was able to control rendering |
| 06:37 | <Hixie> | certainly on the long run that is what we will want |
| 06:37 | <eric_carlson> | Obviously that is possible now if they are external to the media file - set up a cue point for every caption and render when they fire |
| 06:37 | <eric_carlson> | Built-in subtitles are not so easy |
| 06:37 | <Hixie> | yeah, though that would be very suboptimal from an accessibility point of view |
| 06:39 | <eric_carlson> | because the script would also have to choose the right one among alternates? |
| 06:39 | <BenMillard> | eric_carlson, are you an implementor from somewhere? |
| 06:39 | <eric_carlson> | BenMillard: yes, I am one of the apple crowd |
| 06:40 | <BenMillard> | cool :) |
| 06:40 | <Hixie> | no, because if the user copies the video onto their desktop, the subtitles get lost in the process |
| 06:40 | <eric_carlson> | BenMillard: worked on QuickTime and related media technologies for along time, now working in WebKit |
| 06:40 | <Hixie> | (similarly if the video is embedded on another site with another player, etc) |
| 06:41 | <Hixie> | the best experience for the user seems to me to be a single self-contained file with all the metadata, alternate tracks, etc |
| 06:41 | <Hixie> | (could be SMIL or some such, too) |
| 06:43 | <eric_carlson> | Hixie: I agree, but given that the current spec doesn't allow any track leel configuration (eg. selection among alternates) I wonder if developers won't resort to external files for more control. |
| 06:44 | <eric_carlson> | the point someone made on the list today about the difficulty of adding caption/titles to media files because of the time it takes to generate good transcriptions is a valid one too. |
| 06:44 | <eric_carlson> | it is really quick and easy to get a video online, generating captions and metadata can take significantly longer. |
| 06:45 | <eric_carlson> | and merging the two can be a PITA |
| 06:48 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 06:48 | <Hixie> | not sure what to do about this |
| 06:48 | <Hixie> | i mean, we can expose track selection |
| 06:48 | <Hixie> | but that doesn't solve the wider problem |
| 06:48 | <eric_carlson> | indeed |
| 07:27 | <BenMillard> | CSS expressions won't be supported in IE8 standards mode: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/10/16/ending-expressions.aspx |
| 07:48 | <hsivonen> | Do the iTunes files JF is referring to contain bitmap overlay captions or text captions? |
| 08:10 | <hsivonen> | what's sad about the EOT debate is that the pro-EOT stance is so much like the attitude that Hollywood has to able to spec what Vista can do with HD video |
| 08:11 | <hsivonen> | so the old players get to handcuff the new technology to suit their fears and business |
| 08:11 | <hsivonen> | instead of new technology creating a new market |
| 08:12 | <hsivonen> | and new players emerging if the old ones fail to adapt |
| 08:13 | <othermaciej> | is that debate going heatedly still? |
| 08:13 | <hsivonen> | othermaciej: new email today |
| 08:14 | <hsivonen> | (FWIW, I thought that Bert's summary had a pro-EOT bias, too) |
| 08:16 | <othermaciej> | hsivonen: what list? |
| 08:17 | <hsivonen> | othermaciej: www-style |
| 08:18 | <othermaciej> | ah, I thought it was in reference to the charter proposal |
| 08:19 | <annevk3> | I think Bert is pro-EOT |
| 08:19 | <othermaciej> | I wonder if the W3C will pursue it despite likely negative feedback and votes from most of the browser vendors |
| 08:49 | <annevk3> | lets hope not |
| 08:50 | <annevk3> | though it doesn't matter much I suppose |
| 08:59 | <hsivonen> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2008OctDec/0047.html (sorry about Member-only link) |
| 09:04 | <annevk3> | oh man, discussion on Member-only chairs is lovely |
| 09:04 | <annevk3> | I wish it were public |
| 09:06 | othermaciej | replied to the EOT thread |
| 09:14 | <roc> | uh oh |
| 09:15 | <othermaciej> | I accidentally said something totally wrong |
| 09:15 | <othermaciej> | but at least I corrected myself! |
| 09:15 | <othermaciej> | I do think Bert's report sounded extremely biased |
| 09:15 | <othermaciej> | like I said in my email, he attributed all arguments against EOT to others, but wrote the rebuttals to those arguments in authorial voice as facts |
| 09:16 | <othermaciej> | so either he is openly stating that he's pro-EOT, or he is a really bad writer |
| 09:16 | <othermaciej> | that's ignoring anything about the quality of arguments on either side |
| 09:20 | <BenMillard> | the compactness of the notes in my 2008 collection are really helping me count up the trends |
| 09:20 | <BenMillard> | yay for notepad, pen and remembering how to tally from primary school :) |
| 09:20 | <othermaciej> | hmm I wonder if David Orchard is it |
| 09:26 | <annevk3> | looking forward to Sunday! |
| 09:26 | <annevk3> | first day of the CSS WG meeting... |
| 09:29 | <BenMillard> | annevk3, just had a thought: would I be useful to CSS WG meetings? I'm not a "designer" but I do work with them and implement their designs as actual CSS and HTML professionally on the public web. |
| 09:30 | <annevk3> | BenMillard, depending on the subject, it might be entertaining :) |
| 09:31 | <annevk3> | though if vertical text is discussed you really want to be somewhere else :p |
| 09:32 | <annevk3> | did our chroniqueur just reveal he has W3C Member access? |
| 09:33 | <annevk3> | doesn't really help narrowing it down, of course |
| 09:33 | <BenMillard> | http://lastweekinhtml5.blogspot.com/2008/10/bijan-plumber.html |
| 09:34 | <zcorpan> | ok i so got the algorithm wrong :( |
| 09:35 | <zcorpan> | in webkit, <body bgcolor=999> results in rgb(0, 9, 153) while <body bgcolor=aaa> results in rgb(170, 170, 170) |
| 09:36 | <zcorpan> | and <body bgcolor=aax> results in rgb(0, 0, 0) |
| 09:36 | <zcorpan> | and #999 results in rgb(153, 153, 153) |
| 09:36 | <zcorpan> | #aax -> rgb(0, 0, 0) |
| 09:37 | <BenMillard> | annevk3, do I contact Bert Bos about observing CSSWG meetings? |
| 09:38 | <BenMillard> | "W3C Style Activity Lead" & "CSS contact" are the roles in the footer of different parts of the public CSS pages |
| 09:38 | <annevk3> | I think you need to contact the chairs |
| 09:38 | <annevk3> | plinss and glazou |
| 09:39 | <zcorpan> | i think i'll just make valid #rgb notation return and anything else continue the algorithm |
| 09:41 | <BenMillard> | annevk3, ah I just found http://www.w3.org/Style/2008/css-charter but and I have Daniel Glazman's e-mail from Public-HTML, but I can't find e-mail address for Peter Linss. Should I keep looking or just contact Daniel? |
| 09:45 | <othermaciej> | BenMillard: wow, he works fast |
| 09:52 | <Hixie> | that member-only thread has missed some relevant points, like the way that I (we) are actively working with the SVGWG on the SVG-in-text/html thing |
| 09:54 | <Hixie> | and the way that html5 was originally outside the w3c, and it was only the w3c asking for it to be brought into the w3c that changed that |
| 09:55 | <annevk3> | http://blog.whatwg.org/october-2008-meetups |
| 09:55 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: I think some people involved in that discussion aren't really aware of the history. |
| 09:55 | <Hixie> | so it seems a bit weird to be demanding that html5 use w3c culture as opposed to the other way around |
| 09:56 | <Hixie> | (though as Bijan points out, in practice the culture is the same, it's just a different focus) |
| 09:56 | <Hixie> | (i'd say the whatwg culture is probably a bit more honest about what it means, whereas the w3c one is put in a more politically correct fashion, but that's about it) |
| 09:56 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: clearly |
| 09:57 | <Hixie> | I hope Bijan will be at the TPAC. I've no idea who he is, but I should thank him for his kind words. |
| 10:16 | <BenMillard> | ah, got Peter Linss's e-mail from here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Sep/0216.html |
| 10:17 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: What time do you arrive at Cannes? |
| 10:22 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, somewhen in the evening of Sunday, possibly quite late |
| 10:22 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: k. I'll be around before you then. |
| 10:22 | <gsnedders> | (I get in at 15:03 or something like that) |
| 10:23 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, I can you when I arrive at Cannes railway station, or as I arrive at the hotel, or whatever :) |
| 10:23 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: You can what me? |
| 10:24 | <BenMillard> | oh, lol, I can call you :P |
| 10:24 | <gsnedders> | Or txt me, or whatever |
| 10:24 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 10:24 | <BenMillard> | as I'll be on a train, probably best that you don't call me, although a text would be OK when you reach the hotel |
| 10:27 | <BenMillard> | othermaciej, I don't quite understand your comment? |
| 10:37 | <othermaciej> | BenMillard: your troll link |
| 10:40 | <gsnedders> | http://lastweekinhtml5.blogspot.com/2008/10/tpac-what-wg-teamster.html — does anyone want to outdo that and get a photo with us in it? |
| 10:45 | <BenMillard> | aha |
| 11:01 | <Lachy> | who are the people in the 5th and 6th photos on that autograph sheet? |
| 11:01 | <annevk3> | henri and james |
| 11:02 | <annevk3> | though james is not coming, so you can't get bingo it seems |
| 11:02 | <gsnedders> | annevk3: No, it's BenMillard, not James |
| 11:02 | <annevk3> | oops |
| 11:02 | <gsnedders> | annevk3: Completely different face, even if they do both have long hair |
| 11:06 | <Lachy> | will BenMillard be at TPAC? |
| 11:07 | <annevk3> | yes |
| 11:07 | <annevk3> | gsnedders, hmm yeah, in my defense, the photo is vague |
| 11:07 | <gsnedders> | annevk3: Just look at it more closely :P |
| 11:13 | <gsnedders> | hmmm |
| 11:16 | <gsnedders> | IIS is odd. |
| 11:23 | <gsnedders> | HTTP/1.x style requests with method = "get" result in 404; HTTP/0.9 style requests result in invalid request |
| 11:25 | <gsnedders> | It seems to return 404 and not 501 for any unknown method, get included |
| 11:25 | <annevk3> | but GET passes? |
| 11:25 | <gsnedders> | Yeah |
| 11:26 | <gsnedders> | Case-sensitive for requests, case-insensitive for responses |
| 11:26 | <annevk3> | for responses? |
| 11:26 | <annevk3> | how can you be case-insensitive there? |
| 11:27 | <gsnedders> | good question. |
| 11:27 | <gsnedders> | I'm too tired :) |
| 11:28 | <gsnedders> | Unusually, Apache is just as strict as IIS |
| 11:28 | <gsnedders> | (IIS tends to be stricter) |
| 11:41 | <gsnedders> | I ought to write some way to test stuff automagically |
| 11:41 | <gsnedders> | (like, for requests) |
| 11:55 | <BenMillard> | lachy & annevk3, the "o rly" picture is from a really long time ago, it was modified by someone from my passport photo :) |
| 11:55 | <BenMillard> | last summer I got this one: http://projectcerbera.com/me/me.jpg |
| 11:55 | <BenMillard> | today I'm updating it, same scene |
| 11:56 | <BenMillard> | as the weather is lovely |
| 11:59 | <BenMillard> | incidentally, I made a sheet like that last year because I hadn't met anyone previously, so maybe the blogger saw that at the event |
| 12:07 | <Lachy> | I wonder if anyone will be turning up in gear like this? http://lastweekinhtml5.blogspot.com/2008/10/what-working-gear.html |
| 12:10 | <wilhelm> | I'd like the pink one. |
| 12:13 | <Dashiva> | Hmm... it's like the latest posts are losing the sting |
| 12:13 | <Dashiva> | Maybe he's become a Hixie fanboy too? |
| 12:17 | <Lachy> | Dashiva, I guess we need to say a lot more controversial stuff in here for him to quote |
| 12:20 | <Dashiva> | I don't think he's lacking material |
| 12:52 | <BenMillard> | Lachy, I just commented here but it hasn't shown up after a couple of refreshes: http://blog.whatwg.org/october-2008-meetups#comment-28038 |
| 13:00 | <hsivonen> | BenMillard: I approved your comment. |
| 13:03 | <Lachy> | BenMillard, was that your first comment on the blog? |
| 13:04 | <Lachy> | future comments should now go through without moderation. But if that wasn't your first, then I don't know why it would have been held |
| 13:04 | <BenMillard> | hsivonen, thanks |
| 13:08 | <BenMillard> | Lachy, it was my 2nd comment on the WHATWG blog. My 1st was here: http://blog.whatwg.org/this-week-in-html-5-episode-3#comment-26873 |
| 13:09 | <BenMillard> | Lachy, my name ended up with slashes inside it but apart from that, it was same e-mail and so on |
| 13:14 | <Lachy> | I wonder why it got the slashes this time |
| 13:14 | <Lachy> | I'll see if I can fix that |
| 13:14 | <Lachy> | done |
| 13:23 | <annevk3> | I might have fixed it last time |
| 13:23 | <BenMillard> | annevk3, I think they got added when I Preview and last time I deleted them before Post |
| 13:24 | <BenMillard> | but this time I forgot |
| 13:24 | <annevk3> | PHP sucks |
| 13:24 | <annevk3> | and WordPress sucks for not working around it well enough |
| 13:25 | <BenMillard> | I remember hsivonen saying something like magic slashes are in the worst ideas ever category :) |
| 13:25 | <BenMillard> | you can turn them off, not sure if it breaks stuff though |
| 13:26 | <BenMillard> | ah, http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20080822#l-224 |
| 13:30 | <Lachy> | indeed, PHP magic quotes suck. I should turn them off in the .htaccess |
| 13:30 | <Philip`> | s/magic quotes// |
| 13:31 | <Lachy> | I'm fairly sure WordPress doesnt depend on them |
| 13:48 | <Lachy> | I turned off magic quotes in .htaccess, but the Preview feature still inserts the slashes |
| 14:25 | <BenMillard> | Lachy, how hard you try fixing it is up to you. :) |
| 14:59 | <Lachy> | http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/10/16/ending-expressions.aspx |
| 14:59 | Philip` | wonders if he should use the term "abuse case", to mean a use case that we specifically want to forbid (because it's inherently insecure or uninteroperable or whatever) |
| 15:00 | <Lachy> | It's interesting how they say "Because they expose a script execution context, CSS expressions constitute a possible script injection attack vector.", yet they're still forced to keep the security hole in IE7 mode |
| 15:01 | Philip` | wonders why IE's CSS expression() used JScript instead of VBScript, since the latter would have been much better for lock-in |
| 15:22 | <Lachy> | probably because more authors were familiar with JScript than they were with VBScript |
| 15:36 | <BenMillard> | new photos of me are up; haircut is different and, shockingly, I seem to look fractionally older as well: http://projectcerbera.com/me/ |
| 15:36 | <BenMillard> | so hopefully this is more useful for you teamster sheets than a bad passport photo from 2004 (I checked the date) |
| 15:47 | zcorpan | has now implemented his spec in js |
| 15:51 | <Dashiva> | I'm confused. Is JF using the term "burned" to include subtitles and content muxed into a single container file? |
| 15:54 | <Dashiva> | Philip`: parseInt(x) will gladly treat numbers as octal as well |
| 15:56 | <Lachy> | Dashiva, which mail from JF are you referring to? |
| 15:56 | <Dashiva> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Oct/0054.html |
| 16:00 | <Philip`> | Dashiva: Oh, I only read the ECMA spec and missed the note at the end |
| 16:00 | <Philip`> | "When radix is 0 or undefined and the string's number begins with a 0 digit not followed by an x or X, then the implementation may, at its discretion, interpret the number either as being octal or as being decimal. Implementations are encouraged to interpret numbers in this case as being decimal." |
| 18:11 | Philip` | guesses it's bad to take an email from public-html-comments + whatwg, and respond to it onto public-html instead, but he can't respond onto whatwg using his mail client and he doesn't want to spend so much time writing a response and then send it to public-html-comments which nobody reads |
| 18:11 | <Hixie> | i'll read it |
| 18:11 | <Hixie> | why can't you respond to whatwg? |
| 18:13 | <Philip`> | You read everything, so that doesn't count :-p |
| 18:14 | <Philip`> | Because I'm subscribed to whatwg with a GMail address (because that's a convenient way to read the mail), but I haven't set up my mail client to be able to send from that address (and the list won't accept any other address) |
| 18:17 | <Hixie> | just tell me when you get the moderator message and i'll whitelist that address |
| 18:18 | <Philip`> | Ah, that could perhaps be handy |
| 20:22 | <hsivonen> | is there something that makes timeouts set in bookmarklets run only once? |
| 20:23 | <Hixie> | timeouts only run once in general |
| 20:23 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 20:23 | <Dashiva> | What he said |
| 20:25 | <hsivonen> | whoa! how did I manage to confuse timeouts and intervals? |
| 21:02 | <hsivonen> | hmm. so RDFa is a REC. http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/ |
| 21:02 | <Hixie> | wasn't it a rec before? |
| 21:03 | <Hixie> | i thought it had been a rec for years |
| 21:03 | <hsivonen> | looks like it's been a REC since Tuesday only |
| 21:03 | <Hixie> | oh |
| 21:04 | <Hixie> | i wonder why it took so long to get to rec |
| 21:04 | <Hixie> | i really did think they'd been in rec for years |
| 21:08 | <hsivonen> | I suppose the spec dependencies aren't such a hard REC track problem after all, since RDFa became a REC before CURIE |
| 21:09 | <hsivonen> | or CURIE is still at Last Call |
| 21:10 | <hsivonen> | also, RDFa proceeded despite pending TAG concerns about CURIEs |
| 21:21 | <hsivonen> | yay. the C++ version of the Validator.nu HTML parser compiles |
| 21:21 | <hsivonen> | (long way from running still...) |
| 21:41 | <roc> | mmmm |
| 21:47 | Philip` | just wants a Perl version of the parser |
| 21:48 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: have you tried wakaba's? |
| 21:48 | <Philip`> | (Bonus points if the whole thing is a single regular expression) |
| 21:49 | <Philip`> | hsivonen: Hmm, no, since I never heard of it before now |
| 21:50 | <smedero> | Philip: http://suika.fam.cx/www/markup/html/whatpm/readme |
| 21:51 | <smedero> | i think that's a current pointer... |
| 22:13 | <annevk3> | via karl: http://www.w3.org/2002/Talks/0206-python/ |
| 22:14 | <annevk3> | seems we're not the first to disagree with TBL (that is, afaict Python has not adopted this nor is it planning to do so) |
| 22:16 | <shepazu> | Hixie: how is it coming with the wf2 stuff? will you have time/energy to context-switch into a meeting about SVG-in-text/html at TPAC? |
| 22:16 | <annevk3> | WF2 is done |
| 22:16 | <shepazu> | cool |
| 22:16 | <annevk3> | that is, integrating it is, addressing feedback isn't |
| 22:16 | <shepazu> | I don't expect that addressing the feedback will ever be done |
| 22:17 | <shepazu> | which is to say, there will always be someone who wants something done differently |
| 22:18 | <shepazu> | (which, fwiw, is fair... sometimes there are conflicting use cases, it's a balance) |
| 22:19 | <annevk3> | well yes, but in this case no attempt has yet been made |
| 22:26 | <Hixie> | shepazu: what anne said. i'd be happy to talk about parsing. |
| 22:27 | <shepazu> | ok, any particular day best for you? |
| 22:28 | <shepazu> | maybe I should send round an email... |
| 22:29 | <Hixie> | any day is fine by me |
| 22:29 | <Hixie> | i'm there monday-friday |
| 22:29 | <shepazu> | ok, I'll send an email and see if we can get some sort of schedule |
| 22:30 | <Hixie> | k |
| 22:31 | <Hixie> | it would be helpful to have some sort of summary about what the topic will be, and what the intended goal of the meeting would be (and how to evaluate if we've completed that goal) |
| 22:31 | <shepazu> | yup |
| 22:31 | <gsnedders> | Is the only draft agenda for the HTML WG meetings the one mike sent out ages ago? |
| 22:31 | shepazu | hopes part of the goal will be ice cream |
| 22:32 | <smedero> | mikesmith's agenda + TAG morning meeting on thursday... that's the only agenda passed around in public-html or telecons |
| 22:32 | <gsnedders> | shepazu: I'm not against that |
| 22:33 | <smedero> | shepazu: have there been any updates to the SVG-in-HTML proposal from the SVG WG? I think the last updated proposal I saw was from early July~ish. |
| 22:33 | <Hixie> | i hope i don't have to be present for the part of hte meeting intending to ice cream :-) |
| 22:33 | <shepazu> | Hixie: you are against ice cream?? |
| 22:34 | <Hixie> | as part of my work day, yes :-) |
| 22:34 | <shepazu> | smedero: we have talked more about it loosely, but been too busy to change that doc |
| 22:34 | <smedero> | alright, just checking... try to keep my pointers up-to-date. :-) |
| 22:35 | smedero | is happy when the ice cream selection includes a sorbet or soy option |
| 22:35 | <shepazu> | it may be that the meeting will not result in an immediate solution, but more getting on the same general page |
| 22:35 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: booo! |
| 22:35 | <shepazu> | though I'd hope we can get to a solution |
| 22:36 | <Hixie> | shepazu: the last e-mail i sent pretty much lays out the requirements i'm aware of... i wouldn't want to spend an hour repeating that e-mail :-) |
| 22:37 | <shepazu> | Hixie: I don't agree with every point on your email... some of your requirements seemed like the tail wagging the dog... but other parts I agreed with |
| 22:39 | <annevk3> | mcarter, yo, yt? |
| 22:39 | <hsivonen> | speaking of email, I haven't gotten a reply from the SVG WG to the points I made about the SVG WG's proposal |
| 22:39 | <annevk3> | mcarter, Thursday and 10/28 is not a match :) |
| 22:39 | <Hixie> | shepazu: sure, nobody agrees with all the requirements; coming up with the compromise requirements is my job :-) and is what that e-mail basically consists of |
| 22:39 | <annevk3> | mcarter, so is it 10/30 or Tuesday? |
| 22:40 | <Hixie> | anne: i can't make 10/30, so i assumed he meant tuesday |
| 22:40 | <annevk3> | alright |
| 22:40 | <annevk3> | makes sense |
| 22:40 | <hsivonen> | bed time. nn |
| 22:41 | <gsnedders> | When are people arriving in Mandelieu? |
| 22:41 | <smedero> | late (6pm) Tuesday... sadly. |
| 22:41 | <annevk3> | 4PM |
| 22:41 | <annevk3> | tomorrow |
| 22:42 | <gsnedders> | I'm gonna be around from 3PM or so Sunday |
| 22:42 | <annevk3> | landing in mandelieu 14:15, so maybe earlier |
| 22:42 | <gsnedders> | You're actually flying to there? Where from? |
| 22:43 | <Hixie> | landing in _mandelieu_? |
| 22:43 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: Aeroport de Mandelieu/Cannes |
| 22:43 | <gsnedders> | (I arrive at Gare de Cannes at 15:03) |
| 22:43 | <Hixie> | i didn't even know there was such an airport |
| 22:43 | <annevk3> | oops, nice |
| 22:43 | <Hixie> | oh |
| 22:43 | <Hixie> | that's not the same! :-) |
| 22:43 | <annevk3> | true |
| 22:43 | <Hixie> | i need to work out how to get from the airport to mandelieu |
| 22:44 | <annevk3> | meant landing in France |
| 22:44 | <gsnedders> | annevk3: Ah :) |
| 22:44 | <Hixie> | so far i've used a bus and a taxi, a bus and walking, and a taxi. |
| 22:44 | <Hixie> | this time i think i might try for the train. |
| 22:44 | <annevk3> | I was hoping to take the train |
| 22:44 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: No, a bus, a train, and a taxi? |
| 22:44 | <smedero> | Anyone have a decent link to a timetable for the regional trains that way? |
| 22:44 | <Hixie> | if you use a train, then it seems silly to use a taxi, the station is walking distance to the hotel |
| 22:44 | <gsnedders> | Ah, the Gare de Mandelieu |
| 22:44 | <gsnedders> | ? |
| 22:44 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 22:44 | <gsnedders> | Or the Gare de Cannes? |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | cannes is far away |
| 22:45 | <gsnedders> | Ah, I'm on a TGV to the Gare de Cannes |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | ah |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | that's where the bus terminates too |
| 22:45 | <gsnedders> | smedero: http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?newrequest=yes&protocol=http:&; :) |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | until you try to use the regional buses |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | which is more of a pain |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | oh wait, i think i did that once |
| 22:45 | <gsnedders> | smedero: DB has _the_ best railway timetable for all of Europe |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | bus and bus, bus and walking, bus and taxi, and just taxi |
| 22:45 | <smedero> | ahh, great. thank you. |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | or maybe not just taxi |
| 22:45 | <Hixie> | man i don't know |
| 22:45 | <gsnedders> | I guess taxi is the best way to get from Gare de Cannes? |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | it's a long walk |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | but it is walkable |
| 22:46 | <Hixie> | and you can take regional busses |
| 22:47 | <Hixie> | but frankly i'd recommend taxi |
| 22:47 | <gsnedders> | Or would it be sensible to get a SNCF Ten train? |
| 22:47 | <Hixie> | or train |
| 22:47 | <smedero> | That's like an hour walk, right? |
| 22:47 | <Hixie> | i'm going to try train this year i think |
| 22:47 | <Hixie> | smedero: something like that |
| 22:47 | <gsnedders> | The trains that stop at Mandelieu aren't that common |
| 22:47 | <shepazu> | there is a bus, as I recall it takes about half an hour |
| 22:47 | <gsnedders> | And my ticket is for Cannes, so I'd have to buy one |
| 22:47 | gsnedders | shrugs |
| 22:47 | <shepazu> | it goes the long way around |
| 22:47 | <gsnedders> | I've been in France a week, hopefully I can speak French again! :P |
| 22:47 | <shepazu> | but it passes by the castle :) |
| 22:47 | <gsnedders> | (I can speak French fine when in practice, I still don't think I am) |
| 22:49 | <smedero> | looks like the train runs every hour |
| 22:49 | <gsnedders> | Anyone got any idea what to do next Saturday? My flight only leaves at 20:10 (from Nice) |
| 22:49 | <gsnedders> | smedero: On Sunday at least it's not that regular |
| 22:49 | <smedero> | true |
| 22:50 | <gsnedders> | 15:31, 17:16, 17:33, 18:24, 18:46, 20:34 |
| 22:50 | <smedero> | l'm looking at off-peak weekdays |
| 22:50 | <gsnedders> | (dep. times from Gare de Cannes) |
| 22:50 | <gsnedders> | Haha |
| 22:50 | gsnedders | comes across http://kittalicio.us/post/3026078/wordpress-support |
| 22:51 | <Hixie> | looks like the train has the same schedule every day |
| 22:51 | <Hixie> | anyway i'll figure that out on the day |
| 22:52 | <Hixie> | i arrive conveniently in the afternoon |
| 22:52 | <Hixie> | and the train stations in france tend to be quite helpful |
| 22:52 | <gsnedders> | I plan on getting a taxi, unless anyone will murder me for doing so |
| 22:53 | <annevk3> | my flight is at a similar time that Saturday gsnedders |
| 22:53 | <gsnedders> | annevk3: Well, I just arrive on TGV from Lyon |
| 22:54 | <gsnedders> | (I am currently in Lyon, FWIW) |
| 22:55 | <annevk3> | I thought you meant Oct 25 |
| 22:55 | <gsnedders> | Oh, then. |
| 22:55 | <gsnedders> | annevk3: I thought you meant tomorrrow :) |
| 23:00 | <gsnedders> | annevk3: Want to do anything together next Sat then? :P |
| 23:04 | <annevk3> | dunno |
| 23:21 | <pingveno> | Is there a way for users to write their own treebuilder in html5lib? |
| 23:22 | <pingveno> | I dug around in the documentation but I couldn't find anything. |
| 23:50 | <mcarter> | annevk3, Hixie: i meant 10/28, tuesday -- don't know how/why I wrote thursday. Thanks; i'll send another email out |
