| 00:31 | <kingryan> | pingveno: its possible, but not easy |
| 00:31 | <kingryan> | pingveno: which language are yo using? |
| 00:31 | <pingveno> | Python |
| 00:32 | <pingveno> | Well, the tree is written in Cython but I'll use Python for the treebuilder |
| 00:32 | <kingryan> | ok, i mostly only know about the ruby port |
| 00:34 | <pingveno> | Ah, I see. |
| 00:34 | <pingveno> | Is html5lib designed so that it is *possible* to write a custom treebuilder? |
| 00:37 | <Philip`> | pingveno: How would a custom treebuilder be any different to the treebuilders that are currently implemented? |
| 00:37 | <pingveno> | It would work with a tree implementation that I'm writing. |
| 00:37 | Philip` | notices that his sentence didn't quite make sense |
| 00:37 | pingveno | has seen much worse. |
| 00:38 | <Philip`> | I think I meant "How would a custom treebuilder be implemented any differently to the treebuilders that are currently implemented?" |
| 00:38 | <pingveno> | Ah |
| 00:38 | <pingveno> | I'm not sure where to start. I can't find any documentation. |
| 00:38 | <Philip`> | like, there are currently n (standard) treebuilders, so I'd assume that adding a new one would just mean there's now n+1 treebuilders with no fundamental differences |
| 00:39 | <Philip`> | Ah, lack of documentation sounds like a significant problem with that :-( |
| 00:39 | <pingveno> | Yeah, it can be somewhat of a showstopper ;) |
| 00:41 | Philip` | has only ever looked at specific details of the treebuilders, and has no idea how it works from a high-level perspective |
| 00:42 | <pingveno> | Time to pull out da ol' text editor. |
| 00:43 | <Philip`> | As far as I'm aware, looking at the existing treebuilder code is probably all you can do, until someone who knows what they're talking about is present in this channel :-) |
| 00:43 | <pingveno> | It doesn't look terribly difficult to implement. |
| 00:45 | <pingveno> | I'm not sure how to go about doing inheritance though. |
| 00:45 | <pingveno> | from html5lib.treebuilders._base import ... |
| 00:45 | <pingveno> | Then inherit from that? |
| 00:46 | <Philip`> | Might be easier with 'from html5lib.treebuilders import _base' and then refer to _base.Node etc, to avoid name collisions |
| 00:47 | <pingveno> | Oh, true |
| 00:47 | <Philip`> | I suppose you'd then need to do something hacky to make html5lib/treebuilders/__init__.py's getTreeBuilder give you your own treebuilder - doesn't look like it's designed to be externally extensible |
| 00:51 | <pingveno> | Are you sure? It looks like it just initializes the TreeBuilder class. |
| 00:52 | <Philip`> | Hmm, I'm not sure at all |
| 00:52 | <Philip`> | I thought it was called automatically when you created an HTMLParser, but that seems to not be the case, so you can just pass in a treebuilder object directly |
| 00:53 | <Philip`> | It's definitely true that I don't know what I'm talking about, so I should probably just go to bed :-) |
| 00:53 | <pingveno> | East coast by chance? |
| 01:05 | <Philip`> | No, England |
| 01:07 | <pingveno> | Ah, quite a bit further. |
| 01:07 | <pingveno> | I'm on the US's west coast |
| 02:07 | <kingryan> | anyone here know of any good tools for evaluating the accessibility of web pages? |
| 07:51 | <annevk3> | http://www.w3.org/2008/10/16-tagmem-minutes.html |
| 07:51 | <annevk3> | TVR: '... But one more "old guy" that the 20 year olds won't listen to' |
| 08:04 | <hsivonen> | I don't think the age is the key differentiator of way of thinking. I think exposure to the bug database of a browser engine is it. |
| 08:08 | <annevk3> | sounds plausible |
| 08:16 | <hsivonen> | I'm not sure what to think about being the person mentioned as the potential Hixie surrogate |
| 08:17 | <annevk3> | If they don't get someopposition that panel will be boring |
| 08:19 | <annevk3> | it has three proponents so far and no "opponent" |
| 08:19 | <annevk3> | but then "none of us" is really opposed either, it's just that reality is sometimes different |
| 08:59 | <Hixie> | that's the thing |
| 08:59 | <Hixie> | someone in the tag said they were surprised that i knew what the tag would say |
| 09:00 | <Hixie> | but it's pretty easy -- on any topic, they answer the same as i would answer, if i wasn't constrained by practical concerns |
| 09:00 | <Hixie> | e.g. with the passwords-in-the-clear thing -- obviously, you should never send passwords in the clear |
| 09:00 | <Hixie> | except, of course, when you can't afford to do otherwise and have to work with legacy UAs |
| 09:01 | <Hixie> | but the latter concerns seem to be given very little weight in tag discussions |
| 09:02 | <Hixie> | same with defining error handling -- obviously it would be better to not have to worry about that and just require everyone to write valid documents |
| 09:02 | <Hixie> | except, of course, that in reality people uniformly write non-conforming output |
| 09:02 | <Hixie> | same with content sniffing -- i'd love to have a labelling mechanism that was completely authoritative |
| 09:03 | <Hixie> | except, of course, that in reality people mislabel their content and the users want it to work anyway |
| 09:04 | <Hixie> | until the tag as a whole is willing to put the realities of the web ahead of theoretical purity, they'll never write finding and architecture documents that are applicable to specs that get wide deployment |
| 09:06 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: i'm packing. i'm bringing my ps2 games, do i need to bring anything else? e.g. controller? |
| 09:06 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: memory card? |
| 09:06 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: If it has anything useful for those games |
| 09:06 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: No controller needed, we have two. |
| 09:07 | <BenMillard> | Hixie, I'm bringing GT4 and GT3, gsnedders is bringing a couple as well |
| 09:07 | <gsnedders> | F1:05 and NFS:HP2 |
| 09:07 | <BenMillard> | Hixie, bringing any GTAs? I've not played them much/at all on console |
| 09:08 | <gsnedders> | GTA rather sucks with > 1 person, though |
| 09:10 | <Hixie> | i have vice city and san andreas that i'll bring |
| 09:10 | <Hixie> | along with memory cards for save games |
| 09:11 | <Hixie> | ok bed time |
| 09:11 | <Hixie> | nn |
| 09:12 | <gsnedders> | hmm… My memory card my have a save for SA too |
| 09:16 | <BenMillard> | I think there are "rampages" in GTA SA can be 2P on PS2 |
| 09:17 | <gsnedders> | I never liked them |
| 09:17 | <gsnedders> | It just seemed clumsily done |
| 09:45 | <BenMillard> | ok |
| 09:45 | gsnedders | wonders what to do about supper tomorrow |
| 09:45 | <gsnedders> | I don't wanna be a loner! |
| 09:45 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 09:46 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, I'll want something to eat when I arrive at the hotel |
| 09:46 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: When do you arrive? |
| 09:47 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, in the evening, possibly quite late...let me see if I can narrow that down |
| 09:47 | <BenMillard> | I arrive in Cannes railway station around 7pm |
| 09:47 | <gsnedders> | Ah, that's plenty early enough |
| 09:48 | <BenMillard> | taxi from there to hotel, most likely |
| 09:48 | <gsnedders> | Yeah, we could probably head out somewhere at 8ish |
| 09:48 | <BenMillard> | cool :) |
| 09:48 | <gsnedders> | (reasonable time for French supper :)) |
| 09:48 | <gsnedders> | meet you in lobby at 20:00? |
| 09:48 | <BenMillard> | sure, sounds like a plan :) |
| 09:49 | <gsnedders> | Whatever lobby there is :) |
| 09:49 | <BenMillard> | I like quite plain food...spicy stuff and weird stuff I generally can't eat |
| 09:49 | <BenMillard> | steak ftw |
| 09:49 | <gsnedders> | me too. |
| 09:49 | <gsnedders> | Not French steak though. |
| 09:49 | <gsnedders> | (which is cook very hot and very quickly, basically just sealing in all the blood and other juices) |
| 09:49 | <BenMillard> | ah, that's a good point |
| 09:50 | <BenMillard> | Hixie, I'll bring my web research on USB as well as having it online, as a failsafe |
| 09:52 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, I could bring GTA2 with some custom levels which can be fun in 1P and spectating but it's for Windows PC and sometimes dislikes modern hardware |
| 09:53 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: If it can live with a MBP for hardware, then you could bring it |
| 09:54 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, what's MBP in that context? |
| 09:54 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: MacBook Pro |
| 09:54 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, well it's only 1 CD so we may as well try :) |
| 09:54 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 09:54 | <gsnedders> | (this is a mid '07 17" model, FWIW) |
| 09:56 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, oh wait is the screen's aspect ratio about 4:3? GTA2 does have a "windowed" mode but I've not had much success using it... |
| 09:56 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: No, it isn't |
| 09:57 | <BenMillard> | oh well, we can try it once and forget it if it seems difficult :) |
| 09:57 | gsnedders | should probably install a security update or 40 for windows :P |
| 09:57 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, these are the levels, to whet your appetite: http://projectcerbera.com/gta/2/multislayer/ |
| 10:19 | annevk3 | is almost there :) |
| 10:33 | <gsnedders> | Heh. Each one of the major four browsers parses the response-line in a different way. |
| 10:51 | <gsnedders> | Hmm. Opera uses ISO-8859-1 for this, IE uses Windows-1252 |
| 10:52 | <gsnedders> | Fx just stops at U+007F |
| 10:52 | <gsnedders> | And Saf does something bizarre |
| 10:54 | <gsnedders> | Ooo… I can get a bug fixed in IE7 probably! |
| 10:54 | <gsnedders> | (Because I have accidently found a security hole) |
| 11:03 | <gsnedders> | Got "x-foo" header "h~U:geoffrey sneddon", expected "h |
| 11:09 | <Hemebond> | That's quite a security hole. I don't know about anyone else but it certainly makes ME want to give you the keys to my house. |
| 11:09 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 11:16 | <Lachy_> | Hixie, yt? |
| 11:26 | <Lachy> | Hixie, Requiem 1.8 for Mac is available now |
| 11:26 | <Lachy> | works with iTunes 8 |
| 11:26 | <gsnedders> | Lachy: Hixie is asleep, if you believe what he says |
| 11:48 | <Lachy> | Hixie, see http://lachy.id.au/temp/ |
| 14:15 | <hsivonen> | http://www.flickr.com/photos/psd/2926229511/ |
| 14:36 | <hsivonen> | lol: "any sufficiently advanced form of lock-in is indistinguishable from malice" |
| 14:38 | <hsivonen> | (source: http://www.archive.org/details/TheUriIsTheThing) |
| 15:14 | <BenMillard> | hsivonen, that's adapted from an Arthur C Clarke quote which I have on a mousepad. :) |
| 15:14 | <BenMillard> | small world... |
| 15:47 | <BenMillard> | I really dislike counting. :( |
| 15:50 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: hint: 1 < 2 |
| 15:52 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, I'm also bringing a frisbee since it takes about 0 volume to pack :) |
| 15:53 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: oooo… |
| 15:53 | <gsnedders> | Fun! |
| 15:53 | <BenMillard> | if anyone wants to borrow it or join us, contact gsnedders on IRC or something |
| 15:53 | <gsnedders> | :D |
| 15:54 | <BenMillard> | I imagine France has open areas where you can play non-destructive games, like UK? |
| 15:54 | hsivonen | assumes GTA counts as a destructive game |
| 15:55 | <BenMillard> | hsivonen, it does if you get so frustrated that you wreck the controller :P |
| 15:55 | Philip` | has heard of some people who play GTA non-destructively, and are careful to stop at red lights and follow the road markings carefully |
| 15:56 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: We're on the south coast, so there'll be beaches, somewhere. |
| 15:57 | <BenMillard> | oh yeah, I want to touch the Mediterranean Sea at some point during the TPAC |
| 15:57 | <BenMillard> | just as one of those things |
| 15:58 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 15:58 | <gsnedders> | If you bring swimming things, you should be able to swim |
| 16:00 | <BenMillard> | I won't be swimming, I'll touch it with a hand |
| 16:03 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: I won't be cold :P |
| 16:03 | <gsnedders> | http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=4164 |
| 16:05 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, I don't have any swimming things that fit...I could buy some beach shorts but it's a bit late now |
| 16:05 | <BenMillard> | and I haven't swam in, erm, several years |
| 16:05 | <gsnedders> | Nor have I :P |
| 16:07 | <BenMillard> | well, maybe we can figure something out while there |
| 16:08 | <gsnedders> | like not swimming? :P |
| 16:08 | <BenMillard> | who knows :) |
| 16:08 | <gsnedders> | oh shit. |
| 16:08 | <gsnedders> | gsnedders.com is about to expire |
| 16:08 | <BenMillard> | "about" as in "tomorrow" or "about" as in "1 month from now"? |
| 16:09 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: next week |
| 16:09 | <BenMillard> | oh, looks like it's already expired to me |
| 16:09 | <BenMillard> | http://gsnedders.com/ yeah? |
| 16:09 | <gsnedders> | yeah |
| 16:09 | <gsnedders> | WTF? |
| 16:10 | <BenMillard> | it's just a load of adverts and promo links to me |
| 16:10 | <BenMillard> | which isn't what used to be there |
| 16:10 | <gsnedders> | I guess trying to renew that caused that |
| 16:10 | <gsnedders> | But I have no credit card, so I can't |
| 16:11 | <BenMillard> | good luck with it |
| 16:11 | <BenMillard> | renew it the same way you bought it originally, perhaps? |
| 16:12 | <gsnedders> | It should start working again in a few minutes. meh. |
| 16:12 | <gsnedders> | That's stupid. |
| 16:15 | <gsnedders> | Right, should be working again |
| 16:39 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, first Firefox gave me a message "This page isn't redirecting properly" |
| 16:39 | gsnedders | blames DNS caching |
| 16:39 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, tried again and I'm at a page of adds for Go Daddy.com, as before |
| 16:39 | <BenMillard> | I guess it might take a few more minutes? :) |
| 16:40 | <gsnedders> | Or change to something like OpenDNS where you can force a refresh of the cache ;P |
| 16:41 | <BenMillard> | Hixie, I won't be able to count everything I wanted to count to give you summary statistics before TPAC, but when we meet you can point out anything you want me to count and I'll do that during November. |
| 17:04 | Philip` | wonders if it's really possible to register a domain like xn--electroencephalography.net, or if there's going to be some annoying IDN restrictions to prevent such things |
| 17:06 | <Philip`> | At least one domain registrar seems happy with that for .net and .com (but no other TLD) |
| 17:46 | <BenMillard> | cool, all of this fits in 1 suitcase! http://projectcerbera.com/blog/2008/10/packed-1.jpg |
| 17:56 | <Hixie> | Lachy: got it |
| 17:59 | <Lachy> | cool |
| 18:07 | <BenMillard> | Hixie, any days work well for you working through my collection with me? |
| 18:09 | <Hixie> | BenMillard: no idea off hand yet |
| 18:10 | <BenMillard> | Hixie, okies. I expect to be in HTMLWG all Thursday and Friday, so we could split off from there if it gets boring, or meet randomly on an earlier day |
| 18:10 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders is probably the best person to ping if you want to contact me while at TPAC |
| 18:10 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: But then think of what will be on lastweekinhtml5 if Hixie isn't in the meeting :P |
| 18:10 | <gsnedders> | BenMillard: Are you assuming you'll be with me 24/7? |
| 18:11 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, no but you have my phone number :) |
| 18:11 | <gsnedders> | c'est vrai |
| 18:12 | <Hixie> | BenMillard: i'm in meetings all week in theory |
| 18:12 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: When do you arrive? |
| 18:12 | <Hixie> | BenMillard: but earlier in the week is probably best |
| 18:12 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: sunday night |
| 18:12 | <Hixie> | i leave in 45 minutes |
| 18:13 | <BenMillard> | Hixie, earlier works for me; I've got PFWG on Monday afternoon so maybe before that? |
| 18:13 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: what time? |
| 18:18 | <timbl_> | looking over logs ... sees # [10:08] <Hixie> "but it's pretty easy -- on any topic, they [the TAG] answer the same as i would answer, if i wasn't constrained by practical concerns " |
| 18:19 | <timbl_> | Well, easy to say .. One could say "Yeah, always know what the WHATWG would say .. just what I would say if i were just thinking of the past and present and not the future" . |
| 18:19 | <timbl_> | But I don't say that for one thing the WHATWG like the TAG is a bunch of people .. and they would dsy different hings |
| 18:20 | timbl_ | has flakey connection |
| 18:20 | <timbl_> | and anyway it would be disrespectful and impolite. |
| 18:26 | <BenMillard> | timbl, nice to see you here :) |
| 18:26 | <BenMillard> | I think Hixie is close to setting off for TPAC, so he might not be available to reply right away |
| 18:27 | Philip` | discovers that Punycode "xn--blind" decodes into Braille characters ("⡑⡒⡊"), which is a strange coincidence |
| 18:35 | <Hixie> | timbl_: when i say "the tag would say" i'm just referring to what publications from the tag would say, not to the opinions of individuals in the tag |
| 18:38 | <timbl_> | Well, the publications of the TAG are fairly few and far between.. but the discussion here is often about the minutes of the last meeting. |
| 18:40 | <Hixie> | sure, but the two sweeping statements i made were only meant to refer to the publications |
| 18:41 | <Hixie> | and i stand by them -- i think the tag's publications are theoretically sound |
| 18:41 | <Hixie> | which is fine, for a set of architectural principles |
| 18:41 | <Hixie> | to strive for |
| 18:41 | <Hixie> | but they're not achievable in specs that have to be actuall widely implemented |
| 18:42 | <Hixie> | for example, even the w3c sends passwords in the clear |
| 18:42 | <Hixie> | and not sniffing for video content in resources sent as text/plain simply isn't a marketable option |
| 18:43 | <Hixie> | i think hsivonen's comments earlier were spot on -- one's point of view starts to change when one has to deal with browser bugs |
| 18:44 | <Hixie> | (from the point of view of the implementors) |
| 18:44 | <timbl_> | The tag and the whatwg are sets of well-meaning smart people -- with similar goals but different emphasis. |
| 18:44 | <timbl_> | Beware the Second System Effect. |
| 18:44 | <Hixie> | how do you mean? |
| 18:45 | <Hixie> | or rather, why do you think the second system effect may be a problem here? |
| 18:45 | <Hixie> | (i'm assuming you're referring to the idea that when designing a system the second time from scratch, one tends to overengineer it. but the whatwg work is explicitly not designing anything from scratch.) |
| 18:46 | <timbl_> | It is easy when redesigning or doing a second run on the design to take into account the clear bugs in system 1 -- but in designing system 2 to fail to meet the design goals of system 1 which et system 1 designers toiled for in their time |
| 18:46 | <timbl_> | It may not be totally good match with Fred Vrroks experience. |
| 18:47 | <timbl_> | The WHATWG is concerned wit practical life building for a world with leacy web pages and legacy web browsers. The TAG is concerned about building a world of modular orthognal specs which ill support future developmesnt by otehrs to come |
| 18:48 | timbl_ | scuse my typing |
| 18:48 | <Hixie> | i would posit that the second system effect is far far more likely with the xhtml2 work than with html5 :-) i mean, with html5, we're explicitly not redesigning anything. that's one of our core goals and requirements. |
| 18:48 | <timbl_> | These are different concens -- they are both important. |
| 18:49 | <Hixie> | the whatwg/html5 work is about extending the legacy system to support future developments |
| 18:49 | <Hixie> | it bridges both of the concerns you list |
| 18:49 | <timbl_> | Sometimes they seem to conflict but I think we have to try to be smart and get both |
| 18:49 | <Hixie> | the tag only seems to focus on the second of these two concerns, which is why its publications repeatedly make what the whatwgers consider elementary mistakes (not taking into account the legacy) |
| 18:49 | <timbl_> | Well, I would like ther to be a path by which browsers work with logacy markup, but don't encourage you to make it. |
| 18:50 | <Hixie> | that's the whatwg path :-) |
| 18:50 | <Hixie> | we make legacy markup invalid |
| 18:50 | <Hixie> | just like with html4 and before |
| 18:50 | <timbl_> | Well, I don't see browsers helping me tidy my pages. |
| 18:51 | <timbl_> | Or letting me (for what I declare to be my own web site) see the warnings of things which my CMS has generated |
| 18:51 | <Hixie> | you never will -- the vendors aren't willing to do that. that's not a whatwg problem, we (whatwg/html5) are just working with what constraints they give us |
| 18:51 | <Hixie> | warnings are shown in firefox and safari |
| 18:51 | <Hixie> | that's orthogonal to the specs |
| 18:52 | <timbl_> | Well, it isn't. |
| 18:52 | <timbl_> | In a way. |
| 18:52 | <timbl_> | You are dsigning a system. |
| 18:52 | <timbl_> | In a way, a system of servers and browsers and readers and publishers. |
| 18:52 | <timbl_> | You think about what readers and publishers will and won't be prepared to do a lot. |
| 18:53 | <Hixie> | right, otherwise we'll get ignored |
| 18:53 | <timbl_> | The people working on HTML5 largely ARE the bowser vendors. |
| 18:54 | <timbl_> | "- the vendors aren't willing to do that. that's not a whatwg problem," uggests they are not connected. |
| 18:54 | <gsnedders> | Then why aren't the browser vendors interested enough to work on other specs? |
| 18:54 | <Hixie> | of the 500 people in the htmlwg list and the 900 people in the whatwg list, at most 10% are browser vendors |
| 18:54 | <Hixie> | probably far, far less |
| 18:54 | <gsnedders> | How many browser vendors are working on XHTML2? Why is there not more interest there? |
| 18:55 | <timbl_> | gsnedders, we wre not talking about XHTML2, but about browses showing warnings when they have had to use error correction |
| 18:55 | <Hixie> | timbl_: i gotta go catch a train. shall we continue this conversation monday at lunch? |
| 18:56 | <timbl_> | Monday lunch alas I can't do |
| 18:56 | <timbl_> | ummmm unless i can move things around |
| 18:56 | <Hixie> | ok well ping me on irc, let me know what works for you -- i'm mostly free except monday dinner |
| 18:56 | <Hixie> | ttyl |
| 18:56 | <Hixie> | gotta go now |
| 18:56 | <timbl_> | Ok, bon voyage |
| 18:57 | <gsnedders> | timbl_: I'm just speaking more generally about future development |
| 18:57 | <timbl_> | I'll see if we I can do lunch |
| 18:57 | <gsnedders> | Hmm, I wonder what I'm doing about lunch tomorrow |
| 18:57 | <gsnedders> | I'm on TGV from Lyon :\ |
| 18:58 | <gsnedders> | timbl_: I think the main point is there is no point in requiring UAs to show warnings in a spec if the requirement is just going to be ignored |
| 18:58 | <timbl_> | there are worse places to be than the tgv |
| 18:59 | <timbl_> | It should not be in the language spec at all, but a good practcie note |
| 18:59 | <gsnedders> | timbl_: Oh, sure, far worse. :) |
| 18:59 | <gsnedders> | timbl_: What use is even a good practice note if nobody is going to follow it? |
| 19:00 | <timbl_> | I know you folks like to put just everything in a big document ;-) ... but a good pracftce note about how to encourage good behavior |
| 19:00 | <timbl_> | If there is a concerted message that the web would get better if browser manufacturers implemenetd it, it could well. |
| 19:01 | <gsnedders> | I don't think we like having such a big document, I think we just think that editing one large monolithic document is easier (insofar as less time consuming) than editing several inter-linked documents |
| 19:01 | <timbl_> | It IS possible to make things better ... when you are enmired in describing the current mess, importnt also to set a long term course out of it |
| 19:01 | gsnedders | ought to go and get food now :) |
| 19:01 | <timbl_> | Trouble with big doc -- dif for peopl eto read & implement the bit they want .. |
| 19:02 | <timbl_> | Ok, i have a plane soon |
| 19:02 | <timbl_> | maybe see you in fr |
| 19:02 | <gsnedders> | I guess I might see you around |
| 19:02 | <timbl_> | yup |
| 19:02 | <gsnedders> | (I the guy who looks far too young) |
| 19:02 | <gsnedders> | *I'm |
| 19:02 | <gsnedders> | :D |
| 19:02 | <timbl_> | (through being young or lookingit?) |
| 19:02 | <gsnedders> | the former |
| 19:03 | timbl_ | thinks youngest TP attendee was 12 |
| 19:03 | gsnedders | is 16 |
| 19:04 | <timbl_> | well, welcome to the TPAC ... we don't discriminate on gender, race, color, sexual preference, religion, and *certainly* not age :) |
| 19:05 | gsnedders | has only been discriminated on three of them :) |
| 19:05 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 19:05 | <gsnedders> | (which is rather sad) |
| 19:05 | <Philip`> | You only discriminate on ability to spend the time and money to attend ;-) |
| 19:06 | <timbl_> | That is a trciky one, as I know from experience that face-face meetings are so much more efefcive often and build trsut .. esp. in cases like this |
| 19:06 | gsnedders | almost made it to the TPAC last year, but not on his own money :P |
| 19:06 | <timbl_> | I wish we could have a scolarship system fro people who don't ahev company /institute tavel |
| 19:06 | <gsnedders> | (as it happened, I am in France this week anyway, so it makes it cheaper to get there) |
| 19:07 | <timbl_> | someone whould bring it up at the plenary |
| 19:07 | <timbl_> | web foundation maybe could make that a goal |
| 19:07 | timbl_ | in airport, gtg |
| 19:09 | <gsnedders> | adios |
| 20:12 | <jcranmer> | does IE 8 have support for <video> ? |
| 20:17 | <hsivonen> | jcranmer: AFAIK, no |
| 20:17 | <jcranmer> | :-( |
| 20:17 | <hsivonen> | regarding error reporting in a browser: |
| 20:17 | <jcranmer> | guess that means youtube won't be using <video> anytime soon |
| 20:18 | <hsivonen> | I want to make the Java to C++ translator for the parser I'm working on to support code generation with error reporting and without |
| 20:18 | <hsivonen> | that should give us data about perf |
| 20:18 | <hsivonen> | I think perf would be the main motivation for not reporting parse errors |
| 20:19 | <Lachy> | jcranmer, YouTube could begin using <video> even without support from IE, since they'll need to supply Flash fallback anyway |
| 20:19 | <hsivonen> | also, it probably isn't worthwhile to track the error location column in a browser |
| 20:19 | <hsivonen> | I think I should write a pluggable code path that only does line numbers |
| 20:21 | <hsivonen> | oh, and the other thing next to perf is that reporting errors brings along with it all the message localization issues |
| 20:24 | <hsivonen> | (In fact, the reason why I'm doing it without errors first on the C++ side is the trouble with hooking into the Firefox localization infrastructure properly) |
| 21:19 | <annevk3> | yo |
| 21:20 | <annevk3> | the weather is indeed nice |
| 21:20 | annevk3 | forgot to bring shorts |
| 21:25 | <jcranmer> | annevk3: selling shorts is illegal in some places now, didn't you know? |
| 21:25 | <virtuelv> | annevk3: so, mandelieu is shorts nice |
| 21:25 | <virtuelv> | good to know |
| 21:26 | <virtuelv> | I was wondering whether I should bring some or not |
| 21:27 | <annevk3> | it's slightly colder in the evening |
| 21:27 | <annevk3> | but dean had shorts, so it should be ok |
| 21:28 | <gsnedders> | I don't like shorts |
| 21:29 | <jcranmer> | I don't like pants |
| 21:29 | gsnedders | blinks |
| 21:29 | <gsnedders> | oh, yeah, pants means that in en-us |
| 21:31 | <gsnedders> | Is there any web version of blame for HTML 5? |
| 21:32 | hsivonen | expects Hixie is to blame |
| 21:32 | <gsnedders> | Yeah, but I want to know when to blame him |
| 21:43 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: Why do you want a web version? |
| 21:43 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: Because I don't have a co on my laptop |
| 21:44 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: It's not hard to get one :-p |
| 21:44 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: but it wouldn't help at all with blame anyway |
| 21:44 | <Philip`> | (since that has to all be computed on the server) |
| 21:44 | <Philip`> | (which takes forever) |
| 21:44 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: git svn! |
| 21:44 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 21:44 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: Oh, okay |
| 21:45 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: I have such a copy at home |
| 21:45 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: Why I don't have it on the laptop's HD is a good question |
| 21:47 | <gsnedders> | anyhow, g'nite |
| 22:04 | <annevk3> | anyone going to CSS tomorrow? |
| 22:09 | <hsivonen> | annevk3: tomorrow is secret, isn't it |
| 22:09 | <Hemebond> | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/lifehacker/2008/10/reader_confessions.jpg |
| 22:19 | <annevk3> | hsivonen, I think you can come, sicking and dbaron will prolly be there |
| 22:26 | virtuelv | is pondering bringing running shoes |
