| 00:05 | <doublec> | yes, bug trackers are difficult to use |
| 00:05 | <doublec> | they present an overwhelming number of fields to fill in and you're never sure what components to put things under. So most users don't bother. |
| 00:06 | <jcranmer> | especially when the bug tracker provides "Hardware" and "OS" when you're running a web-service :-) |
| 00:23 | <Hixie> | should i make things redundant or more complicated? |
| 00:23 | <Hixie> | i can either redefine "local date and time" to be almost identical to "global date and time" (but without timezones) |
| 00:23 | <Hixie> | or i can factor out the common bits and make the spec even harder to read |
| 00:50 | Hixie | finds a way to factor without much confusion |
| 06:52 | <Hixie> | holy crap timeless said something useful |
| 06:53 | <Hixie> | <input type=email multiple=multiple> is totally the way to go |
| 06:53 | <Hixie> | since we're doing the same for type=file |
| 10:32 | <hsivonen_> | Philip`: Re: Pythonic interpreter for JS: http://mochikit.com/examples/interpreter/ |
| 10:56 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: why would I love political agenda pushing with geolocation? |
| 11:03 | <Lachy> | Hixie, what's the use case for a single control accepting multiple email addresses, as opposed to just using multiple fields? |
| 11:03 | <hsivonen> | Lachy: would you want an email app generate fields dynamically? |
| 11:04 | <Lachy> | oh, like the To and CC fields of an email web app. OK, that's reasonable |
| 12:25 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: you were the one arguing most eloquently against such things in the accessibility space (e.g. making alt required) |
| 12:33 | Lachy | gets fed up with the nonsense in the <q> thread; ignores the last 50 messages that arrived over night |
| 13:20 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=579605 |
| 13:37 | zcorpan | looks through b.v.nu |
| 13:38 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: wasn't http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=301 fixed? |
| 13:42 | Philip` | sees that it took about 120 messages on <q> before anybody wondered about data |
| 14:00 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: Error: " in an unquoted attribute value. Probable causes: Attributes running together or a URL query string in an unquoted attribute value. |
| 14:01 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: is the latter really a probable cause? |
| 14:01 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: (it is for = but i don't think it is for " or ') |
| 14:03 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: probably cause is forgetting the starting " or ' (at least if the next character is > or whitespace) |
| 14:03 | <zcorpan> | s/y/e/ |
| 14:04 | <zcorpan> | (or maybe regardless of the next character) |
| 14:37 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: yes. bug 301 was fixed. Marked so now. Thanks |
| 14:39 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: filed bug http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=319 |
| 14:40 | <Philip`> | "... the HTML WG doesn't [..] have a time-machine a[t] its disposal!" - the great thing about time machines is that it doesn't matter whether you have one; all that matters is whether you *will* have one |
| 14:41 | <Lachy> | Philip`, where is that quoted from? |
| 14:41 | <jcranmer> | and it matters whether or not you can travel back in time |
| 14:42 | <jcranmer> | theoretically speaking, if one could travel back in time, why haven't we met such a person yet? |
| 14:42 | <Lachy> | I have a time machine, but it only lets me travel forward in time. at a rate of just a few nano seconds faster than people at rest. |
| 14:43 | <jcranmer> | Lachy: I do too. It's called an airplane :-) |
| 14:43 | <zcorpan> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_quotes#French -- "Unlike English, French does not set off unquoted material within a quotation mark by using a second set of quotes." |
| 14:43 | <Lachy> | :-) |
| 14:45 | <zcorpan> | also "when there should be two adjacent opening or closing marks, only one is written" |
| 14:45 | <zcorpan> | i'm sure this was mentioned in the <q> thread i've not read, but it makes it clear to me that css generated quotes don't work for french at least |
| 14:46 | <Philip`> | Lachy: One of the recent <q> posts |
| 14:46 | <Philip`> | jcranmer: Maybe none of them ever wanted to come back to our time |
| 14:46 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: so will we have one? |
| 14:47 | <jcranmer> | Philip`: why not, though? |
| 14:47 | <jcranmer> | have we become a barbarian age in their eyes? |
| 14:48 | <Philip`> | jcranmer: You were speaking theoretically, so it doesn't matter why nobody will choose to come back to now, it only matters that they could choose that :-) |
| 14:48 | <Philip`> | zcorpan: I can't tell you, as it would cause a paradox |
| 14:48 | <jcranmer> | Philip`: forever is a long time |
| 14:49 | <jcranmer> | you'd have to claim that no one would choose to come back to now |
| 14:49 | <jcranmer> | over the next hundreds of thousands, millions, even billions of years |
| 14:52 | <Philip`> | jcranmer: Billions of years from now, they'll have an interval of billions of years they could travel back to, which will still be in our future |
| 14:52 | <jcranmer> | Philip`: but there are billions, if not trillions or quadrillions of people |
| 14:52 | <Philip`> | The further in the future you consider, the less chance they'll travel back to our past, so it all evens out |
| 14:54 | <Philip`> | jcranmer: Most of those people will just be sitting watching their holo-TVs, not travelling back to boring parts of history |
| 14:55 | <Philip`> | The novelty of time travel will wear off quickly, and there will just be a few historians who go back and summarise the fun bits for the mass market audiences |
| 14:57 | <Philip`> | If I travelled to medieval times then I'd probably just catch some disease and die, so I'm much happier to stay here and watch programmes about kings and knights and jousting and dragons and whatever there was |
| 15:14 | <Lachy> | If I ever get a chance to go back in time, I've already picked a specific date to go to. |
| 15:15 | <Lachy> | I intend to go back and see myself. So since I never actually saw myself on that date, I already know that I will never be able to. |
| 15:16 | <Philip`> | Maybe you just will change your mind |
| 15:16 | <Philip`> | because you realise how much psychological trauma you would cause yourself by visiting yourself at that point in time |
| 15:16 | <Lachy> | no, not going to happen. I decided when I was 10 that I would go back to 7 March 1993, and haven't changed my mind since |
| 15:16 | <Philip`> | *will realise |
| 15:18 | <Philip`> | Maybe you did/will go back but you couldn't/won't be able to find yourself then |
| 15:18 | <Lachy> | I'm fairly sure I know exactly where I was on that day, so finding my self won't be a problem |
| 15:19 | <Philip`> | Reaching yourself might be hard - you might arrive on the wrong side of the world and forget that planes aren't fast enough yet to get you there in time |
| 15:20 | <Lachy> | or maybe I died on the plane to Australia from wherever the time machine left me :-) |
| 15:20 | Lachy | wonders if there were any plane crashes on that day |
| 15:21 | <Philip`> | You might have arrived on the wrong day, because you forgot to deal with timezones correctly when translating from modern decimal time to the archaic 24-hour location-dependent system |
| 15:22 | <jcranmer> | are you might simply have met yourself, just in a different universe |
| 15:23 | <zcorpan> | has someone started a wiki page with appropriate style sheet for quoting? |
| 15:23 | <jcranmer> | s/are/or/ |
| 15:24 | <zcorpan> | aiui it would contain lots of *|:lang(...) > q rules |
| 15:24 | zcorpan | goes ahead and creates a page on the whatwg wiki |
| 15:25 | <Lachy> | zcorpan, Chris Wilson said IE8 does locale specific quoting. Ask him for details |
| 15:25 | <Lachy> | they might already have such a stylesheet |
| 15:25 | <zcorpan> | Lachy: ok |
| 15:26 | <jcranmer> | I thought :lang inherited |
| 15:27 | <jcranmer> | so q:lang() should be sufficient, right? |
| 15:32 | <Philip`> | jcranmer: If I write English and quote "some stuff in a different language" then (arguably) it should use English quotes, not the other language's quotes, so it should be based on the q's parent's lang and not the q's |
| 15:32 | <jcranmer> | makes sense |
| 15:32 | <Lachy> | it gets tricky when you have nested quotes of a foreign langauge inside an english document |
| 15:32 | <jcranmer> | I also missed the `>' in the specifier |
| 15:32 | <Lachy> | does the nested quote use the english quotes or the foreign language quotes? |
| 15:33 | <Philip`> | though in reality if I was doing any even slightly fancy like mixing languages and caring about punctuation, I'd write my own punctuation marks instead of hoping some algorithm would come up with the desired result |
| 15:33 | <Philip`> | s/any/anything/ |
| 15:33 | <Lachy> | Philip`, yes, that's why making <q> generate quotes automatically is a mistake |
| 15:33 | <Philip`> | Lachy: It uses whatever the author wants to use :-) |
| 15:34 | <Philip`> | Web browsers aren't really the right place to encode grammar rules |
| 15:34 | <Lachy> | and why, IMHO, if we can't fix that problem with <q>, we should make it non-conforming |
| 15:34 | <jcranmer> | as evidenced by Jean's main character: "Je crois que «L'habit ne fait pas le moin…»" |
| 15:36 | <BenMillard> | Philip`, I pointed to the MAMA research which put <q> as the 131st most-used element here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Oct/0221.html |
| 15:37 | Philip` | has it as 125th, which is remarkably similar |
| 15:38 | <BenMillard> | both used DMOZ but at different times, so maybe the selection bias as square as it is round over time :) |
| 15:38 | <Philip`> | BenMillard: I saw that, but I ignored it in my IRC comment because it would damage the validity of my claim ;-) |
| 15:38 | <Lachy> | one potential solution is to add attributes like <q start="“" end="’">...</q>. But then it's easier to just use the quotes without the <q> at all |
| 15:38 | <Lachy> | s/end"’"/end="”"/ |
| 15:38 | <BenMillard> | I'm glad Chris replied to my summary with such detail and openness |
| 15:39 | <BenMillard> | I haven't seen a lot of technical feedback from Microsoft on that list previously |
| 15:40 | <smedero> | yeah, they're more active in css and webapps |
| 15:40 | <Philip`> | BenMillard: Hmm, it looks like my sample was large enough that random variation would only cause a change of a couple of dozen places in the ranking, which is less than I expected, so it shouldn't actually be surprising that I got similar results to the other dmoz.org survey |
| 15:41 | <BenMillard> | Philip`, I like your per-TLD breakdown on the use of <q> |
| 15:42 | <BenMillard> | looking through the list, it seems particular sites use <q> on several pages...so my suspicion that websites tend to be internally consistent holds |
| 15:42 | <Philip`> | I was going to add a column for the percentage of pages in that TLD with <q>, but they all said 0.0% :-/ |
| 15:42 | <BenMillard> | heh :) |
| 15:43 | <BenMillard> | hmm, looking at the "http://psychocorp.net/"; entries that start with a big stretch of whitespace, then a <li>: http://philip.html5.org/data/q-tags.txt |
| 15:43 | <Philip`> | and there's too little data to make meaningful comparisons about the results anyway |
| 15:43 | <BenMillard> | they are using <q> around <a href> where the link text is the name of a work...so it looks like <q> is being used for <cite>? |
| 15:46 | <BenMillard> | http://www.eskimo.com/~cwj2/atheism/moralath.html has this: <li class><strong><a href>Author</a></strong>: <q cite>Truncated Comment</q> <a href>[Date]</a></li> where all href and cite attributes share the same value, even though they have different text |
| 15:47 | <Philip`> | BenMillard: Looks like psychocorp is using <q> whenever it mentions a film name, so it seems semantically quite like <cite> |
| 15:48 | <Philip`> | They don't seem to be styling <q>, so I guess they desire it to have quotation marks because that makes the film names distinguishable from the surrounding text |
| 15:48 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: i think mama has some filters to make the dmoz sample somewhat less biased |
| 15:48 | <zcorpan> | but don't quote me on that |
| 15:49 | <BenMillard> | lol :D |
| 15:49 | <BenMillard> | http://www.debian.org/social_contract.html seems to use <q> for all sorts of things...usually there's an element nested inside the <q> like <q><em> or <q><code> which has the real purpose |
| 15:50 | <Philip`> | zcorpan: blooberry said there were various things to limit the number of pages per domain and to filter out spam pages, I believe |
| 15:50 | <Philip`> | so I won't disagree with you :-) |
| 15:50 | <BenMillard> | Philip`, that debian.org page uses <q><em>free</em></q> for what seems like <dfn>free</dfn>? |
| 15:51 | <Philip`> | I use the high-tech method of ignoring the bias, and then if I'm going to make some claim like "59 pages use <q>" then I manually check to make sure they're not all from Wikipedia :-) |
| 15:51 | <BenMillard> | Philip` & zcorpan, I think one of the MAMA pages says they limit to 30 pages per domain...aha: http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/mama-the-url-set/#domaincapping |
| 15:52 | <BenMillard> | but it failed on subdomains |
| 15:52 | <BenMillard> | "So, instead of the initial goal to have no more than 30 URLs from CNN, we now have 346!" |
| 15:52 | <Philip`> | I avoided the CNN issue by downloading the page list at a time when dmoz had removed almost all the CNN links |
| 15:53 | <BenMillard> | Philip`, from my skimming through your q-tags.txt, it seems <q> is often used for bogus purposes even amongst the tiny number of pages which use it :| |
| 15:53 | <Philip`> | One problem with limiting to 30 per domain is that it underrepresents the significant amount of content on Geocities and Angelfire |
| 15:54 | <BenMillard> | Philip`, oh yeah...they don't use subdomains. |
| 15:54 | <Philip`> | (They make up 2.5% of my sample, it appears) |
| 15:55 | <Philip`> | (which distorts the results because of the advert markup they insert into pages, but avoids the distortion of pretending (wishing) that Geocities pages didn't exist) |
| 15:56 | <BenMillard> | hey, look what http://www.voyager.prima.de/cpp/books1.html uses! <span class="quote">... <q>Title of Work</q> ...</span> |
| 15:57 | <BenMillard> | incidentally, that link is a 404? |
| 15:58 | <Philip`> | http://web.archive.org/web/20080116164728/http://www.voyager.prima.de/cpp/books1.html |
| 15:59 | <Philip`> | Eek, my data is 8 months old now |
| 16:00 | <BenMillard> | Philip`, cheers. Seeing it in context reinforces my view that <q> is bogus there. |
| 16:01 | <BenMillard> | it seems that <q> is so often used bogusly, like for the titles of works, that no longer generating quotes would make little difference to the usability of pages. The titles of work are using title case and therefore still look like titles with generated quote marks removed... |
| 16:01 | Philip` | notes that http://people.opera.com/howcome/ is 1.7% of the pages that use <q> |
| 16:02 | <Philip`> | ...and seems to use it correctly, too |
| 16:02 | <BenMillard> | Philip`, that page only contains the string "<q" once outside of comments, afaict? |
| 16:03 | <BenMillard> | but that one use seems correct, yes |
| 16:03 | <zcorpan> | BenMillard: what's the bogus/correct ratio? |
| 16:03 | <BenMillard> | zcorpan, I haven't counted pricesely, but so far I've seen lots of bogus (several pages from several sites) and only 1 correct use (howcome). |
| 16:03 | <BenMillard> | s/pricesely/precisely/ |
| 16:03 | <Philip`> | BenMillard: Ah, I didn't notice the second was in comments, because I was just looking at the regexp output |
| 16:04 | <zcorpan> | BenMillard: is "several" around 10 or around 50 or something else? |
| 16:04 | <Philip`> | Rather than "bogus"/"correct", perhaps a more useful classification is "needs quotes (else it's ambiguous/ugly/etc)"/"needs no quotes"/"doesn't matter" |
| 16:04 | <BenMillard> | zcorpan, between 5 and 10 |
| 16:05 | <BenMillard> | (in my mind, several sounds like "seven" so I use it as an approximation for that) |
| 16:05 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: makes sense |
| 16:06 | Philip` | used to think 'several' was precisely 7, when he was around 10 |
| 16:06 | <gsnedders> | and few is 3? |
| 16:06 | <BenMillard> | gsnedders, "few" sounds like 4 or 5 to me :) |
| 16:07 | <zcorpan> | what's a couple? |
| 16:07 | <zcorpan> | 2-3? |
| 16:07 | <BenMillard> | 2 |
| 16:07 | <gsnedders> | 2 |
| 16:07 | <Philip`> | because my parents said Disney World probably had several Mickey Mouses rather than one person doing it all the time, and I thought that made good sense because it was one per day of the week |
| 16:07 | <BenMillard> | I guess 2-3 in some societies :P |
| 16:07 | <BenMillard> | I'm supposed to be updating Calthorpe Park School...any of you feel like categorising some of the pages in that list? Or shall I bookmark it and get to it as I progress through my research? |
| 16:08 | zcorpan | didn't really understand the question |
| 16:08 | <Philip`> | I'm not quite sure what categorising the pages would actually be useful for |
| 16:09 | <BenMillard> | figuring out the true impact of removing the quote generation on <q> from UA stylesheets |
| 16:09 | <BenMillard> | (in terms of how it affects the user experience) |
| 16:09 | <Philip`> | It's primarily good to have interoperability, and it seems interoperability will be achieved soon by every browser inserting quotation marks, and it's not worth spending much effort to change them all |
| 16:10 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: but ie will do different things for different languages so we won't have interop if we don't change them |
| 16:10 | <BenMillard> | and it's impossible to fully implement the feature if you do locale sensitivity |
| 16:10 | <zcorpan> | and i guess ie won't do this for quirks/ie7 mode |
| 16:11 | <zcorpan> | but other browsers do |
| 16:11 | <Philip`> | zcorpan: But it's pretty close to interoperability - nobody is really going to be concerned if one browser uses slightly curlier quotes than another, whereas they do worry about quotes being entirely absent |
| 16:11 | <Philip`> | so it doesn't matter if it takes a few years to converge on precisely what quote characters to use |
| 16:11 | <Philip`> | Quirks is a good point :-( |
| 16:12 | <zcorpan> | assuming that ie won't do this in quirks mode, i'd prefer to not generate quotes |
| 16:12 | <zcorpan> | but i don't care much |
| 16:14 | <Philip`> | "{ quotes:'"' '"' "'" "'" }" is really not much fun to read in a small proportional-width font |
| 16:15 | <BenMillard> | I've bookmarked the list of pages using <q> and will run through it at some point, update my collection and send what I found to the list...maybe that'll be done by this evening, more likely some time tomorrow |
| 16:16 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: is '\201C' ... easier to read? |
| 16:17 | <Philip`> | zcorpan: No, since that makes it hard to see that it's a curly opening quote or whatever it is |
| 16:17 | <BenMillard> | zcorpan, I use " on the outside and ' on the inside of quoted speech |
| 16:17 | <Philip`> | I think the solution is just to read mail in a fixed-width font |
| 16:18 | <BenMillard> | "Hey, it said 'left' in my directions!" |
| 16:18 | <Philip`> | BenMillard: That's just because you're unpatriotic |
| 16:18 | <BenMillard> | in school, I was taught " is speechmark, ' is quote mark...I guess this is one of the intra-language inconsistencies |
| 16:19 | <Philip`> | Actually I think I mostly see "...'...'..." in en-GB books, and '..."..."...' seems rarer (though still quite common, particularly in older books) |
| 16:20 | <Philip`> | Clearly it's American culture destroying our way of life |
| 16:20 | <BenMillard> | this is another strong reason against generating quotes, imho: the rules aren't clear even within a language and they change over time |
| 16:21 | <BenMillard> | at the 3rd level of nesting, I've no idea what English does (I guess it alternates) |
| 16:21 | <zcorpan> | css doesn't alternate, aiui |
| 16:23 | <Philip`> | At the third level of nesting, someone will tell you that your writing is far too complex and you should flatten it out :-p |
| 16:24 | <Philip`> | You couldn't use <q> for something like dialogue in a book anyway, because it can't cross paragraphs |
| 16:24 | <zcorpan> | for dialogue you should use <dialog> |
| 16:26 | <zcorpan> | it seems webkit doesn't support open-quote and close-quote |
| 16:27 | <Philip`> | zcorpan: <dialog> is for dialogue like in plays, not in books |
| 16:28 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: does the spec say that? |
| 16:28 | <Philip`> | I just mean dialogue where I could write "some sentence like this, and then start a new paragraph. |
| 16:28 | <BenMillard> | I think Philip means books tend to put dialogue inline, inside sentences |
| 16:28 | <Philip`> | "And then continue saying stuff." and then stop the quoting |
| 16:29 | <Philip`> | (where the first paragraph doesn't end with a '"' because it's not the end of the quotation, and it cuts across the paragraph divisions) |
| 16:29 | <BenMillard> | The officer gave chase. "<q>Oi! Stop right there!</q>" she bellowed. |
| 16:29 | <BenMillard> | <p>The officer gave chase. "<q>Oi! Stop right there!</q>" she bellowed.</p> |
| 16:30 | <Philip`> | zcorpan: Yes, because it says it's a conversation with an explicit speaker and quote, which is not how books are written |
| 16:30 | <Philip`> | (except when they are, for literary effect) |
| 16:31 | <BenMillard> | yeah...plays and other scripts are written like that, plus stage directions, but prose usually isn't. |
| 16:32 | <BenMillard> | oooh, I can smell home cooking...lamb chops! |
| 16:35 | Philip` | has fun writing an editable resizable matrix in HTML |
| 16:36 | <Philip`> | (contenteditable is pretty neat, since I can just make the contents of each table cell editable, and don't have to worry about fixed-size <input>s or anything) |
| 16:40 | <zcorpan> | not splitting the <q> seems bogus to me and bending over backwards to work around how css quotes work |
| 16:40 | <Philip`> | zcorpan: In which case? |
| 16:41 | <zcorpan> | « C’est une belle journée pour les Montréalais, soutient le ministre. Ces investissements stimuleront la croissance économique. » |
| 16:41 | <zcorpan> | the "soutient le ministre. " is not part of the quote |
| 16:42 | <Philip`> | Ah, right |
| 16:42 | <Philip`> | It does seem like a presentational hack if you put that not-part-of-quote text inside another element inside the quote |
| 16:42 | <BenMillard> | time for dinner |
| 16:43 | <BenMillard> | I hope hibernation works in Windows...I've got loads of stuff open. |
| 16:45 | Philip` | is having a surprising degree of success with suspend-to-RAM in Linux - usually it crashes every so often, but his laptop now has an uptime of 42 days |
| 16:55 | <zcorpan> | http://www.seoworkers.com/ first application/xhtml+xml site i've seen with XHTML+RDFa doctype |
| 16:55 | <zcorpan> | i guess it's just a matter of time until we have to add it to the list of FPIs that enable html entities |
| 16:55 | <zcorpan> | :( |
| 17:28 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/section-tabular.html#header-and-data-cell-semantics is a 404 ... wonder if that's fixable by saying that /multipage/anything redirects to /multipage/ if it's a 404 (or otherwise redirecting all old urls appropriately) |
| 17:29 | <Philip`> | zcorpan: Blame Hixie - it should be a pretty 404 page like http://www.whatwg.org/404 with a script that redirects you to whatever page contains header-and-data-cell-semantics |
| 17:30 | <Philip`> | (although if header-and-data-cell-semantics no longer exists in any page then it doesn't redirect you at all - maybe in that case it should go to /multipage/ ?) |
| 17:30 | <Philip`> | (The 404 page should include http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/link-fixup.js) |
| 17:30 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: ^ |
| 19:52 | <BenMillard> | ROFL @ <span title='them' class='editorial-insertion' >their customers</span> |
| 19:52 | <BenMillard> | (what's wrong with <ins>?!!) |
| 19:54 | <BenMillard> | (taken from this message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Oct/0267.html) |
| 20:05 | <Philip`> | BenMillard: <ins> is inappropriate in that case, given how HTML5 defines it |
| 20:06 | <Philip`> | because "The ins element represents an addition to the document.", but that editorial-insertion isn't a thing that was added to the document separately from the surrounding text |
| 20:08 | <BenMillard> | Philip`, make <ins> more general-purpose would better reflect how it is used. |
| 20:09 | <Philip`> | I'm sure I've seen <del> used ironically far more often than used correctly |
| 20:09 | <BenMillard> | ironic use of HTML is fine by me |
| 20:10 | <BenMillard> | check the quote starting "[B]loggers like [Rod 2.0]" here: http://blog.fawny.org/2008/10/26/maladaptives-arc/ |
| 20:10 | <BenMillard> | <ins> used to mark editorial tweaks to a quoted source |
| 20:10 | <BenMillard> | makes sense to me |
| 20:10 | <Philip`> | ((Is "ironic" the correct term? I don't really know)) |
| 20:11 | <BenMillard> | Philip` <del>sucks</del> pwns, right? |
| 20:12 | <BenMillard> | <ins> vs. <span class='editorial-insertion' > seems like a no-brainer, to me (<ins> ftw) |
| 20:21 | <mpt> | <del>their customers</del><ins>them</ins> |
| 20:25 | <BenMillard> | mpt, that might be the wrong way around...I think "them" is what was replaced by the more specific "their customers"? |
| 20:26 | <mpt> | Well good, using more explicit markup can prevent my mistake :-) |
| 20:26 | <BenMillard> | this makes sense to me: <del>them</del> <ins>their customers</ins> |
| 20:27 | <BenMillard> | although so does this: [their customers] |
| 20:27 | <BenMillard> | (with no markup or trace of what existed before the editorial change) |
| 21:00 | <Hixie> | hm, wtf's up with the 404 |
| 21:01 | <olliej> | reload style |
| 21:02 | <olliej> | whoops, ww :D |
| 21:02 | <Hixie> | oh, i see |
| 21:02 | <Hixie> | silly typo |
| 21:02 | <Hixie> | ok should work now |
| 23:48 | Hixie | giggles |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | my girlfriend went to pick me up at rochester airport |
| 23:49 | <Hixie> | sadly my flight landed at buffalo! |
| 23:49 | <Hixie> | which to be fair to the airline, is what the itinerary said |
| 23:49 | <Dashiva> | Sounds like a job for geolocation |
| 23:50 | <Hixie> | hm, 3000ms pings |
| 23:50 | <Hixie> | good times |
| 23:50 | Hixie | goes to look for food |