| 01:45 | <Hixie> | any opera people here? i'm trying to work out how to complete this sentence: |
| 01:45 | <Hixie> | Chaals could improve the Opera intranet if he had a mechanism for identifying the original source of various parts of a page, because... |
| 01:46 | <Hixie> | it's based on something chaals said but i don't seem to be able to find anything about how knowing the original source of a page would actually help improve the intranet |
| 04:51 | <Hixie> | i love this use case (paraphrasing): "how come if a tv guide site doesn't include a link to imdb my browser can't detect that it's a tv show from the microdata the author puts in the page and create an implied link to imdb?" |
| 04:53 | <Hixie> | if the tv guide author isn't including the link you want... what makes you think he'll include the microdata you want? |
| 04:59 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: because experience has shown us that right-thinking authors will always go out of their way to embed hidden content that's only intended to be exposed to users of specialized tools, but not to normal users |
| 04:59 | <MikeSmith> | and they will never make any mistakes when they do it |
| 05:00 | <Hixie> | well actually some of the summary="" data did show that that does hapen sometimes! |
| 05:00 | <Hixie> | they have to be pretty motivated authors though |
| 06:47 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: am I'm reading it incorrectly, or does abarth's content-sniffing data indicate that 0x00000100 signature almost never actually triggers in practice? |
| 06:47 | <MikeSmith> | http://webblaze.cs.berkeley.edu/2009/content-sniffing/metrics.html |
| 06:48 | <Hixie> | the metric counter is probably not being triggered for favicons |
| 06:48 | <Hixie> | but you'd have to speak to abarth for details |
| 06:49 | <MikeSmith> | I see |
| 06:49 | <MikeSmith> | just asking because that seems the be the only remaining case where Gecko content-sniffing behavior is different from the spec |
| 06:50 | <MikeSmith> | and abarth recommendation in the related Mozilla bug is that signature just be removed |
| 06:51 | <MikeSmith> | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=465007 |
| 07:13 | <MikeSmith> | http://twitter.com/200ok/status/1592050739 |
| 07:13 | <MikeSmith> | "why isn't NOSCRIPT valid inside HEAD? there are perfectly legit uses..." |
| 07:14 | <MikeSmith> | noscript is allowed in head, right? |
| 07:16 | <MikeSmith> | ah, I guess it's not allowed in HTML4 |
| 08:02 | <Hixie> | Lachy: have you heard any news of a a requiem that works with the latest iTunes? |
| 08:33 | <Lachy> | Hixie, no |
| 08:34 | <Lachy> | Hixie, my only source of information is that forum thread. So if you checked there, I'm unlikely to know anything more than you |
| 08:35 | <Lachy> | but I just started freenet to see if the page has been updated since the last version was released |
| 08:46 | Philip` | wonders why they don't just publish all the news and updates on, like, a web page |
| 08:50 | <Lachy> | Philip`, because Requiem is techically illegal to distribute, and so an ordinary web page is subjected to DMCA take down notices and subsequent legal issues for failing to comply |
| 08:50 | <Lachy> | Using Freenet helps to avoid that by keeping anonymous |
| 08:51 | <olliej> | Lachy: requiem? |
| 08:51 | <Lachy> | it's illegal because of the anti-circumvention clauses in the DMCA and similar laws in other countries |
| 08:51 | <Lachy> | olliej, an iTunes DRM removal utility |
| 08:53 | <olliej> | happily at least some of that drm is gone |
| 08:57 | Philip` | recently discovered get_iplayer which can download BBC programmes via the streaming Flash RTMP protocol, including a few in HD (1280x720 3Mbps H.264), which is pretty nice, and much more useful than the official Flash interface |
| 08:58 | <Philip`> | (They have a cross-platform programme downloader built on Adobe Air, but Air only installs onto deb/RPM-based Linuxes, not Gentoo, so I can't use it) |
| 08:59 | Philip` | would prefer it if they didn't have to make things so unnecessarily complex (rather than e.g. providing a download link to an .mp4 file) |
| 10:04 | jgraham | realises that one of his scripts has broken because he installed a namespace-aware html5lib |
| 10:05 | <jgraham> | except s/one/many/, just that I haven't tried to use the others yet |
| 10:27 | <annevk2> | lol |
| 10:27 | <annevk2> | check http://www.stockholmgamlastan.se/ in Opera |
| 10:28 | <jgraham> | It would be much less funny if the photographs on the site weren't so crappy |
| 10:29 | <krijnh> | Nice, simpel protection :) |
| 10:29 | <svl> | heh |
| 10:29 | svl | toggles dom.event.contextmenu.enabled and happily rightclicks a couple of times |
| 10:29 | <krijnh> | That'll teach them! |
| 10:30 | <olliej> | wow, that's stupid |
| 10:30 | <olliej> | errr |
| 10:30 | <MikeSmith> | annevk2: hallvord should write a patch for browser.js that unblocks opera and then replaces all the images on the pages with lolcats or something |
| 10:31 | Philip` | left-clicks and drags the image into Firefox's location bar, and then uses Ctrl+S |
| 10:32 | <MikeSmith> | speaking of stupid: http://www.torchmobile.com/blog/?p=29 |
| 10:33 | <jgraham> | Philip`: Why not jut drag the image to your folder of choice? |
| 10:40 | <Philip`> | jgraham: Because I don't trust drag-and-drop to work in any scenario more complex than from one application to itself |
| 10:41 | <Philip`> | (Actually it often works between native KDE applications too, but Firefox isn't one of those so I still wouldn't trust it) |
| 10:43 | <annevk2> | http://sourcefrog.net/projects/meantime/ is interesting |
| 10:43 | <annevk2> | basically cookies through HTTP caching |
| 10:44 | <annevk2> | so you'd have to disable your cache altogether if you want to prevent tracking |
| 11:11 | <annevk2> | it might also explain why Hixie got such strange values back for Last-Modified although somehow I doubt a lot of sites would be using the technique |
| 11:16 | svl | set his cache to 2MB a couple of years ago as a compromise between mostly preventing this and still having some use of the cache while staying within a single website. |
| 11:18 | Philip` | enables cookies and uses a mostly-static IP, so people don't have to bother wasting time on such tricks to track people |
| 13:28 | <Lachy> | re the right clicking on stockholmgamlastan.se , I guess they're not aware that Firefox has had the option to prevent context menu blocking for years |
| 13:32 | <annevk2> | or aware of browser caches... |
| 13:34 | <Lachy> | generally, people who try to prevent right clicking just want to use it as a deterrent |
| 13:34 | <jgraham> | Or drag and drop of view-page info or any of the other hundreds of ways of getting at those images |
| 13:34 | <Lachy> | besides, simply dragging the image from the browser to the desktop is the quickest way to save images now anyway |
| 13:35 | <Philip`> | The illusion of security is more valuable than security itself |
| 13:36 | <jgraham> | Philip`: To whom? In this case I would prefer the ability to access the site and use the context menu than the ability to save the files |
| 13:37 | <Philip`> | jgraham: To the people who are choosing to implement illusory security, I guess |
| 13:38 | <Philip`> | (I am, of course, entirely wrong) |
| 13:38 | <Lachy> | it would be interesting to see some sort of usability study that analysed common techniques real users used when saving images, to find out if using the context menu is still a significantly relevant technique compared with others |
| 13:38 | <Philip`> | (because they'd prefer real security, but the cost is too high (since it's impossible), so they make do with the best can they easily implement) |
| 13:39 | <Philip`> | s/can they/they can/ |
| 16:04 | <annevk2> | hurray: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-mediaqueries/ |
| 16:09 | <Philip`> | I assume someone has already pointed out that the brackets in media="print and (color)" look weird and stupid and unintuitive? :-) |
| 16:10 | <annevk2> | not sure, but at this point the comment comes about seven years too late |
| 16:11 | Philip` | wonders why it's restricted to disjunctive normal form |
| 16:13 | <mpilgrim> | recommendations for "this week" happenings? |
| 16:13 | <mpilgrim> | i'm covering the datagrid and the keygen elements |
| 16:13 | <annevk2> | HTML5 was just published |
| 16:13 | <mpilgrim> | ah, indeed it was |
| 16:13 | <mpilgrim> | and presumably your html-differences document as well? |
| 16:13 | <annevk2> | also the drafts that were splitted out from HTML5 as well as Web Workers have been published too |
| 16:13 | <annevk2> | yes it was |
| 16:13 | <mpilgrim> | ooh |
| 16:13 | <mpilgrim> | excellent |
| 16:13 | <hsivonen> | mpilgrim: it looks a lot like there's going to be a parsing quirk (unless Hixie changes Acid2 and all browsers agree) |
| 16:14 | <mpilgrim> | is this the <p><table> thing? |
| 16:14 | <hsivonen> | mpilgrim: yeah |
| 16:14 | <mpilgrim> | yes, i saw your blog post on it |
| 16:14 | mpilgrim | adds that link to the list of "around the web" |
| 16:14 | <hsivonen> | mpilgrim: zcorpan's public-html post has the conclusion, though |
| 16:15 | <mpilgrim> | checking |
| 16:15 | <Philip`> | annevk2: It may have been seven years but pretty much nobody uses it, so it'd be easy to change without breaking compatibility much :-) |
| 16:16 | mpilgrim | can't tell if Philip` is joking |
| 16:16 | <billyjackass> | mpilgrim: dunno if you'd find this newsworthy |
| 16:16 | <mpilgrim> | it's used quite often for mobile stylesheets for iphone, ipod, android |
| 16:16 | <billyjackass> | http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/e6812f79d2ba |
| 16:16 | <billyjackass> | "Harmonize content sniffing in HTML5 and Firefox" |
| 16:16 | <billyjackass> | abarth checking in on April 5 |
| 16:16 | <mpilgrim> | billyjackass: absolutely! |
| 16:17 | <Philip`> | As far as I can see, the only examples more complex than comma-separated tokens are (I guess) trying to select mobile devices based on screen width |
| 16:17 | <Philip`> | (and they're not using the weird single-token-in-parentheses syntax) |
| 16:17 | <billyjackass> | mpilgrim: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=465007 is the related bug |
| 16:17 | mpilgrim | first learned about css media queries from an article on iphone-specific stylesheets |
| 16:17 | <Philip`> | 1 only screen and (max-device width:480px) |
| 16:17 | <Philip`> | 31 only screen and (max-device-width: 480px) |
| 16:17 | <Philip`> | 1 screen and (min-device-width: 481px) |
| 16:17 | <Philip`> | 1 screen and (-webkit-min-device-pixel-ratio:0) |
| 16:18 | <Philip`> | (Total occurrence counts, and values, from 130K pages) |
| 16:18 | <mpilgrim> | i was ready to rant about how apple was making shit up again and polluting the web, until i checked discovered that it was a standard that nobody else was using |
| 16:18 | <annevk2> | :) |
| 16:18 | <annevk2> | it's been in Opera for a long time |
| 16:18 | <mpilgrim> | Philip`: that's interesting |
| 16:19 | <annevk2> | Firefox 3.5 has it too |
| 16:19 | <Philip`> | Polluting the web with standards isn't really any better than polluting the web with proprietary technologies |
| 16:19 | <hsivonen> | mpilgrim: media queries are nice with Opera Mini, too |
| 16:19 | <mpilgrim> | Philip`: blasphemy! |
| 16:19 | <mpilgrim> | ;) |
| 16:19 | <Philip`> | (They might be a bit better documented but that's the only real difference, and they equally add to complexity and not-working-in-everyone's-browser-ity and so on) |
| 16:22 | <mpilgrim> | where is the new html5 draft published? |
| 16:22 | <mpilgrim> | http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/ still lists the feb 12 draft |
| 16:23 | <Rik|work> | http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-20090423/ |
| 16:23 | <annevk2> | seems the latest version links aren't updated yet |
| 16:23 | <annevk2> | MikeSmith, ^^ |
| 16:23 | <annevk2> | it is however announced on http://www.w3.org/ |
| 16:23 | <Philip`> | Hmph, the multipage splits are all stupid now |
| 16:24 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, TR symlinks are not set up yet |
| 16:24 | <MikeSmith> | webmaster is working on it now |
| 16:24 | <annevk2> | hmm, webstorage, websockets, and workers |
| 16:24 | <annevk2> | nobody did a sanity check on the shortnames? :) |
| 16:24 | <MikeSmith> | annevk2: what's wrong with the shortnames? |
| 16:25 | <mpilgrim> | Rik|work: thanks |
| 16:25 | <annevk2> | MikeSmith, nothing much, but if either all were prefixed with web or none would've been better (preferably all, given webidl) |
| 16:26 | <MikeSmith> | annevk2: point taken |
| 16:27 | <Philip`> | Hmm, www.w3.org actually links to http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-20090421/ which redirects to ...23 |
| 16:39 | <MikeSmith> | the /TR versions are up now |
| 16:39 | <MikeSmith> | Philip`: I'll get that fixed |
| 16:55 | <remysharp> | Is there any way, or current discussion on the audio and video tags to prevent the browser from downloading the content? |
| 16:56 | <gsnedders> | No |
| 16:56 | <remysharp> | I'm pretty new to how this works, so please humour me - but how do I start that discussion (or is it just via here!)? |
| 16:57 | <gsnedders> | remysharp: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ#Is_there_a_process_for_adding_new_features_to_the_spec.3F |
| 16:57 | <annevk5> | yeah, don't like to any resource |
| 16:59 | <remysharp> | annevk2: I mean to prevent the tag from saturating the bandwidth when the tag's in heavy used on the page |
| 16:59 | <gsnedders> | remysharp: Why are you using it without wanting it to be downloaded? |
| 16:59 | <remysharp> | but then, thinking out loud, there's no way to say start loading without explicitly using some JS function |
| 16:59 | <remysharp> | gsnedders: if there's 50 audio tags on the page |
| 16:59 | <remysharp> | and they all come down at once |
| 16:59 | <gsnedders> | remysharp: But why would there be? |
| 16:59 | <remysharp> | then my bandwidth is going to go loopy |
| 16:59 | <remysharp> | one second - I'll give you a link |
| 17:00 | <remysharp> | http://huffduffer.com/tags/sxswi2009 |
| 17:00 | <remysharp> | so this page - not 50, but a lot right? |
| 17:00 | <remysharp> | these used to be audio tags |
| 17:00 | <remysharp> | and it would fail back to flash for the play buttons |
| 17:01 | <annevk5> | that seems like something the browser should optimize |
| 17:01 | <Rik|work> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/video.html#attr-media-autobuffer |
| 17:01 | <remysharp> | as in, don't download them in parallel? |
| 17:01 | <Rik|work> | remysharp: isn't it the purpose of autobuffer ? |
| 17:01 | <annevk5> | remysharp, as in, do whatever is best for the user |
| 17:01 | <remysharp> | Rik|work: just reading that now... |
| 17:02 | <remysharp> | so would I set this to false to tell the UA to not go and get all this data? |
| 17:02 | <remysharp> | (for example) |
| 17:03 | <Rik|work> | from what I read, it is just a hint |
| 17:03 | <Rik|work> | maybe a browser could first download media with autobuffer=true and then those with false |
| 17:04 | <remysharp> | again, just thinking out loud, but what about when mobile devices support html5 - |
| 17:04 | <remysharp> | bandwidth is a cost for some plans |
| 17:04 | <remysharp> | wouldn't we want to be able to prevent this? |
| 17:04 | <remysharp> | I guess this could boil down to the UA having to have a setting in the phone I guess. |
| 17:04 | <jmb> | is this not just something which should be left to UAs to sort out? |
| 17:04 | <remysharp> | (I guess...I guess) |
| 17:05 | <remysharp> | I'm starting to see that for the mobile case, yes. |
| 17:07 | <gsnedders> | remysharp: It's a problem for any number of images, videos, and audio files |
| 17:08 | <remysharp> | gsnedders: yeah, you're definitely right, and putting images in that context, kind of makes me see that it's definitely down to the browser. |
| 17:08 | <remysharp> | that said... |
| 17:09 | <gsnedders> | remysharp: Limited bandwidth is not a new problem, we already had it with img (esp. in the days of dial-up being normal) |
| 17:09 | <remysharp> | didn't the image tag used to have a low-rez attribute or something... |
| 17:09 | <remysharp> | like a preview on the image tag...am I making this up?? |
| 17:09 | <gsnedders> | remysharp: Um, maybe HTML 3.0? It did sometime. Nobody ever implemented it. Nobody cares about it. |
| 17:09 | <remysharp> | :D |
| 17:09 | <remysharp> | okay, I was harking back a bit then! |
| 17:10 | <gsnedders> | Before I had ever used the web, I think :) |
| 17:10 | <Philip`> | Nobody implemented it? |
| 17:11 | <Philip`> | I'm sure I remember it as actually working |
| 17:11 | <Philip`> | (a long long time ago) |
| 17:11 | <gsnedders> | Well, nobody somebody. Nobody relevant with enough influence, though. |
| 17:11 | <gsnedders> | s/nobody/maybe/ |
| 17:11 | <remysharp> | Philip`: I'm pretty sure it did, I'm sure I used it back then |
| 17:11 | <Philip`> | Apparently it worked in Netscape |
| 17:11 | <remysharp> | nobody relevant == me :) |
| 17:11 | <Philip`> | who had influence |
| 17:11 | <Philip`> | http://www6.uniovi.es/gifanim/gifhtml.htm |
| 17:12 | <Philip`> | "Only Netscape (that I know of) supports the Netscape extension of LOWSRC" |
| 17:12 | <remysharp> | that was the one lowsrc |
| 17:13 | <Philip`> | I guess that technique for GIF animation didn't take off |
| 17:13 | <remysharp> | I just wonder whether there's a usecase for some attribute like 'loadondemand' |
| 17:13 | <remysharp> | (for video + audio) |
| 17:47 | <annevk5> | remysharp, you start with the use case, not the solution |
| 17:47 | <annevk5> | remysharp, i.e. you're doing it wrong :) |
| 17:47 | <remysharp> | annevk5: okay, so I should start with my own experience when I visited the page, and it tried to load all the audio thus slowing my connection and killing my experience |
| 17:48 | <remysharp> | it's a bit over the top - but that's the point you're making right |
| 17:48 | <remysharp> | how do we make sure the experience is still fast and not hammered by lots of things downloading that I don't want. |
| 17:48 | <annevk5> | by getting a better browser |
| 17:49 | <remysharp> | it's not the browser - it was my connection |
| 17:49 | <Philip`> | remysharp: That seems like a reasonable statement of the problem |
| 17:49 | <remysharp> | Philip`: okay, cheers. |
| 17:49 | <remysharp> | at least I post together my thoughts on it, *then* it can be poo-pooed :-) |
| 17:50 | <remysharp> | I take back what I said about connection - you could be right, maybe it's the browser, perhaps not. That I can test myself fairly easily. |
| 17:51 | <annevk5> | my point is that the browser is more likely aware of the user's available bandwidth than the website owner |
| 17:51 | <Philip`> | I guess the solutions are something like (1) require page authors to add an attribute to most of their audio elements when they've got quite a few and they think it might be bad for most of their users; (2) make browsers manage resources sensibly, by not opening a hundred socket connections at once or downloading dozens of megabytes automatically or whatever; (3) something else |
| 17:51 | <annevk5> | so if someone (between the browser and website owner) needs to be in control of bandwidth usage (and disk usage, and memory usage, etc.) it's the browser |
| 17:52 | <Philip`> | and (2) seems a solution that's likely to work better for users |
| 17:52 | <remysharp> | Sure, but as a developer of page, I'm creating a listing page with video tags, I know the user doesn't want them all at once down the wire though. |
| 17:52 | <remysharp> | (in response to annevk5) |
| 17:52 | <annevk5> | yeah, and the browser can know that too |
| 17:53 | <remysharp> | Philip`: I definitely agree that browsers should need to be wary of concurrent downloads for audio and video tags - |
| 17:53 | <Philip`> | I assume browsers already apply their 6-connections-per-domain-name limit to media downloads? |
| 17:53 | <remysharp> | but, right now, that's limited to 2 for IE and 4(?) for FF (I think?) |
| 17:54 | <remysharp> | I thought FF was on 4. |
| 17:54 | <Philip`> | remysharp: I think it's 6 in IE8 and recent FFs etc |
| 17:54 | <remysharp> | Right, cool. |
| 17:54 | <Philip`> | at least for normal page content |
| 17:54 | <Philip`> | ("recent" might mean "not yet released"; I'm not at all sure) |
| 17:54 | <remysharp> | I guess that would actually be a big problem point then too |
| 17:55 | <remysharp> | big-ish |
| 17:55 | <remysharp> | because if there's images or scripts below the 6th video, they're all going to hang if they're the same domain |
| 17:55 | <remysharp> | obviously solved by splitting your content - but I don't think that's the point |
| 17:55 | <Rik|work> | http://stevesouders.com/ua/ |
| 17:55 | <Rik|work> | check the conns/host column |
| 17:56 | remysharp | bookmarks - cheers |
| 17:56 | <Philip`> | Rik|work: Nice, thanks |
| 17:56 | <Rik|work> | btw, webkit will be 6 conns/host soon |
| 17:57 | <Philip`> | remysharp: Only while the videos are actively downloading - the connections should be released when it's stopped buffering, and it probably shouldn't be buffering the entire video before you've started playing it |
| 17:58 | <remysharp> | are you saying that they would buffer a bit, then move on to the next video then? |
| 17:58 | <Philip`> | I suppose I don't see why they'd buffer anything at all |
| 17:58 | <Philip`> | other than the poster image |
| 17:59 | <remysharp> | Yeah, that's the problem though - in WebKit, last I saw, the just download the whole shebang |
| 18:00 | <remysharp> | which is why Jeremy's site (the link I posted above) was changed from the audio tag to just flash |
| 18:15 | <Philip`> | mpilgrim: "Adam Barth's [PDF] whitepaper" seems misleading, since I interpret 'whitepaper' as being a marketing document (and Wikipedia seems to agree so I must be right), whereas this thing is an actual proper academic paper (so I'd just call it a 'paper') |
| 18:16 | <annevk5> | proper response :) |
| 18:17 | <Philip`> | (?) |
| 18:17 | <annevk5> | joking |
| 18:17 | <annevk5> | <datagrid> is also not quite as new as mark said |
| 18:18 | Philip` | is confuzzled |
| 18:18 | <annevk5> | you'll get over it |
| 18:18 | <Philip`> | I may |
| 19:35 | <gmiernicki> | <audio> +1 <video> +1 |
| 19:35 | <gmiernicki> | flash -1 |
| 21:47 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: You _would_ just reference Avenue Q in your email. |
| 21:47 | gsnedders | now really wants to see Avenue Q after all your references to it |
| 21:47 | <Hixie> | i've seen it THREE times |
| 21:47 | <Hixie> | it's that good |
| 21:47 | <zcorpan_> | http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/CR-CSS2-20090423/ still hasn't fixed "BODY element in XHTML" :-( |
| 21:48 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: I mean, I was thinking about going to London in June, and there's a production there… |
| 21:53 | <annevk5> | zcorpan_, really? |
| 21:53 | <annevk5> | zcorpan_, might have been a resolved issue without edits, but I actually thought the edits were made too |
| 21:54 | gsnedders | realizes how crazy his June will be |
| 21:54 | <zcorpan_> | annevk5: if an issue is resolved but not changed in the spec, could the spec go to rec without the change on the basis that there are no unresolved issues? |
| 21:54 | <annevk5> | zcorpan_, the actual text is updated I think |
| 21:54 | <gsnedders> | I have an exam on the 4th, I am away 12th to 14th at leadership training thing, and Hadrian's Wall trip is 19th to 21st, then I start internship on the 29th… And I was going to go to London too… |
| 21:55 | <zcorpan_> | oh i didn't check further than the "features at risk" section |
| 21:55 | <annevk5> | zcorpan_, "For documents whose root element is an HTML "HTML" element or an XHTML "html" element [...]" |
| 21:55 | <annevk5> | zcorpan_, I guess somebody forgot to remove that text there |
| 21:55 | <zcorpan_> | ok |
| 21:55 | <zcorpan_> | i guess they'll notice |
| 21:58 | <annevk5> | zcorpan_, I guess the spec could go to rec btw if nobody noticed |
| 22:07 | <Hixie> | i wonder if the e-mail i sent will trigger 15,000 replies, or zero. |
| 22:07 | <Hixie> | i guess i'll poke at websocket then get back to microdata |
| 22:27 | <gsnedders> | Weee… More bug reports of XML parse errors! |
| 22:27 | <gsnedders> | annevk2: Finish XML5, kthxbai. |
| 22:32 | <Philip`> | XML parse errors should be rebranded as "XML parse bonuses", so people don't think it's so bad to encounter one and report them as bugs |
| 22:33 | <jmb> | that'll lead to competition to get the highest bonus score, though |
| 22:34 | <annevk5> | gsnedders, it seems hardly anyone cares anymore about XML these days |
| 22:34 | <annevk5> | gsnedders, I mean sure, there's the occasional issue, but nothing compared to CSS/HTML/DOM/ECMAScript |
| 22:34 | <gsnedders> | annevk5: Should we just use Aaron Swartz's suggestion of RSS 3.0? |
| 22:34 | <gsnedders> | http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/000574 |
| 22:34 | <annevk5> | gsnedders, I'd rather we just give up on feeds and use HTML; HTML files are not that much larger |
| 22:35 | <gsnedders> | RSS 3.0 is simpler. |
| 22:35 | <annevk5> | gsnedders, though meanwhile I guess we're stuck with several flavors of RSS and Atom |
| 22:35 | <gsnedders> | (Read that page.) |
| 22:36 | <annevk5> | (I know RSS 3.0.) |
| 22:36 | <gsnedders> | (Ah, OK.) |
| 22:36 | <gsnedders> | (It wasn't obvious.) |
| 22:38 | <jwalden> | (I wonder why all recent lines of discussion have been parenthesized.) |
| 22:41 | <Philip`> | (It helps prevent the characters from falling off the edges of the sentence and making a terrible mess on the channel's carpet) |
| 22:43 | <Philip`> | (Well, it's either a carpet or a thick layer of hair and biscuit crumbs, and I'm not quite sure which) |
| 23:23 | <annevk5> | http://sharovatov.wordpress.com/2009/04/22/relcanonical/ more evidence as to why rel= fails |
| 23:29 | <Dashiva> | annevk5: Heh, I didn't even notice the error until I went to read the comments on your post |
| 23:29 | <annevk5> | and I made a mistake too, I meant to say rev= |
| 23:30 | annevk5 | blinks |