| 02:49 | <MikeSmith> | hendry: 404 for http://natalian.org/archives/tag/mobile/feed/atom/ |
| 06:49 | <billyjackass> | is [Reflect] not part of WebIDL? |
| 06:49 | <annevk5> | not part of the current draft |
| 06:49 | <annevk5> | what does it do? |
| 06:50 | <olliej> | annevk2: check darin's recent email to webkit-dev |
| 06:50 | <olliej> | annevk2: i would guess billyjackass is referring to that |
| 06:50 | <billyjackass> | yeah |
| 06:51 | <billyjackass> | https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2009-June/008458.html |
| 06:53 | <MikeSmith> | annevk5: see IDL at bottom of https://bugs.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=31632 |
| 06:53 | <MikeSmith> | would [Reflect] be a useful addition to Web IDL? |
| 06:54 | <othermaciej> | maybe! |
| 06:54 | <othermaciej> | it would save spec writers time |
| 06:54 | <othermaciej> | but it's kind of a layering violation |
| 06:54 | <othermaciej> | since it's so specific to DOM elements |
| 06:54 | <MikeSmith> | I see |
| 06:55 | <MikeSmith> | no heycam around.. would be interesting to hear his thoughts when he gets on |
| 06:55 | <othermaciej> | (assuming you mean the same Reflect we have added or are planning to add to WebKit's IDL) |
| 06:55 | <annevk5> | ah, so that's why Hixie uses the term "reflect" |
| 06:55 | <othermaciej> | no, we copied it from Hixie |
| 06:55 | <annevk5> | oh :) |
| 06:55 | <othermaciej> | we just didn't feel like writing the boilerplate code in C++ for every trivial reflection DOM wrapper |
| 06:55 | <MikeSmith> | othermaciej: yeah, the message from Darin to webkit-dev was what got me asking |
| 06:56 | <annevk5> | MikeSmith, that email, referenced bug, and patch referenced from the bug, do not mention reflect |
| 06:56 | <annevk5> | ah, but https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2009-June/008457.html does |
| 06:57 | <othermaciej> | yeah, Darin and I came up with that design |
| 06:57 | <MikeSmith> | annevk5: sorry, I guess the link I pasted was to the wrong e-mail message |
| 06:57 | <othermaciej> | it does seem like it would be a timesaver for markup language specs |
| 06:57 | <othermaciej> | to avoid the need to mention reflection in prose every time |
| 06:58 | <othermaciej> | but we are doing it to reduce the amount of handwritten code |
| 06:58 | <MikeSmith> | seems like other UA implementors might could find it useful for that too |
| 06:59 | <MikeSmith> | and would save words in the HTML5 spec at least |
| 06:59 | <MikeSmith> | maybe for SVG too? |
| 06:59 | <annevk5> | a few sentences |
| 06:59 | <annevk5> | though it would be neat if all specs used the same definitions, agreed |
| 07:00 | <othermaciej> | in general we'd like to get our IDL as close to Web IDL as possible |
| 07:00 | <othermaciej> | we may still need a few extra extended attributes for truly implementation-specific things |
| 07:03 | gsnedders | comes back to life |
| 07:08 | <MikeSmith> | / iht.com relies on id returning the empty string when no id is present. |
| 07:08 | <MikeSmith> | is an interesting comment |
| 07:08 | <MikeSmith> | heycam! |
| 07:09 | <heycam> | hi MikeSmith |
| 07:10 | <MikeSmith> | heycam: any thoughts on https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2009-June/008457.html ? |
| 07:10 | <MikeSmith> | as far as whether it'd be useful to add a standard mechanism for that to WebIDL? |
| 07:13 | <heycam> | i suppose Web IDL doesn't really deal with elements |
| 07:14 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 07:14 | <MikeSmith> | still, it's handy |
| 07:14 | <othermaciej> | when Darin originally proposed doing this in WebKit, I was hesitant because it seemed kind of layer-violating |
| 07:14 | <heycam> | yeah. maybe html 5 could mint that [Reflect] extended attribute. |
| 07:14 | <othermaciej> | on the other hand, it's going to be really convenient, allowing us to remove a lot of handwritten code |
| 07:14 | <heycam> | or Web DOM Core |
| 07:15 | <othermaciej> | it's less convenient from the spec perspective |
| 07:15 | <othermaciej> | Web DOM Core might be a good place if Web IDL is defined to be extensible in that way |
| 07:15 | gsnedders | curses at olliej for spoiling the race for him on Twitter :P |
| 07:15 | <MikeSmith> | maybe a "WebIDL extensions for markup-language specifications" mini-spec? |
| 07:15 | <heycam> | Web IDL currently says "Extensions to language binding requirements can be specified using extended attributes that do not conflict with those defined in this document." |
| 07:16 | <heycam> | in its extensibility section |
| 07:16 | <MikeSmith> | ah, good |
| 07:16 | <heycam> | so i think such extensions are sanctioned |
| 07:17 | <heycam> | i guess it would just save a sentence per attribute ("The foo attribute reflects the foo content attribute" or whatever.) |
| 07:18 | <othermaciej> | it could also save multiple specs having to define what it means to reflect a content attribute |
| 07:18 | <othermaciej> | if, for instance, SVG ever cares to use Web IDL |
| 07:18 | <heycam> | yep |
| 07:18 | <heycam> | though many of SVG's reflections are more complex SVGAnimatedBlah things |
| 07:19 | <othermaciej> | SVG could probably use its own extended attribute for that |
| 07:19 | <othermaciej> | being reminded of the SVGAnimated interfaces makes me sad though |
| 07:19 | <othermaciej> | now I need a drink before bed |
| 07:20 | <heycam> | haha |
| 07:20 | <heycam> | we were thinking of making them easier to use in SVG 2 |
| 07:20 | <heycam> | with some [PutForwards] and other things on them |
| 07:20 | <heycam> | so that you could do circleElt.cx = 100; and similar simpler things |
| 07:20 | <othermaciej> | I hate not only the API but the ridiculousness of implementing them |
| 07:21 | <othermaciej> | though fixing the API would certainly be a positive step |
| 07:21 | <heycam> | we discussed them at the f2f the week before last, though we came to the conclusion that there's probably enough content to avoid replacing those APIs completely. |
| 07:22 | <heycam> | so we're going to investigate those [PutForwards] kind of improvements, so that the cumbersome API still works too |
| 07:22 | <othermaciej> | sure, I'm not asking to remove the old bad API |
| 07:22 | <othermaciej> | it's just one of many legacy things that make me sad |
| 07:23 | <heycam> | makes me feel #00f too |
| 07:23 | <heycam> | (that's a web joke) |
| 07:24 | <olliej> | gsnedders: ? |
| 07:24 | <gsnedders> | olliej: http://twitter.com/ohunt/status/2261936217 |
| 07:24 | <gsnedders> | olliej: I not even started watching yet :P |
| 07:25 | <olliej> | gsnedders: top sites doomed me |
| 07:25 | <gsnedders> | olliej: :) |
| 07:25 | <olliej> | gsnedders: as i saw the podium in the updated snapshot |
| 07:25 | <olliej> | it made me sad |
| 07:25 | <olliej> | gsnedders: but yes, sorry for posting that |
| 07:25 | <gsnedders> | olliej: Snapshot from what? |
| 07:25 | <olliej> | gsnedders: formula1.com is in my topsites |
| 07:25 | <gsnedders> | olliej: Ah, yes, that has photos. |
| 07:26 | <heycam> | i find i have to turn off my twitter client before just popular TV show finales air, until i've watched them |
| 07:27 | <shepazu> | Pantone 292! |
| 07:28 | gsnedders | virtually always watches it live so normally doesn't have this issue |
| 07:29 | hsivonen | thinks the Web should use royalty-free colors |
| 07:31 | <othermaciej> | hippie |
| 07:36 | <shepazu> | hsivonen: so, no purple? |
| 07:37 | <heycam> | no cadbury purple, anyway |
| 07:37 | <shepazu> | don't they make eggs? |
| 07:37 | <gsnedders> | Yes |
| 07:37 | <gsnedders> | Of the chocolate variety |
| 07:38 | <MikeSmith> | http://suika.fam.cx/gate/2007/cssom/viewer |
| 07:39 | shepazu | notes that there's 2 jokes hidden in the "royalty-free purple" |
| 07:39 | <hsivonen> | shepazu: only purple made of r, g and b |
| 07:40 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: Even if those r, g and b are identical to Pantone 292? |
| 07:40 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: yeah. Independent implementations FTW! |
| 07:40 | gsnedders | wishes his shoulder didn't hurt |
| 08:12 | <gsnedders> | Huh, Adobe charge more _for_ download than shipping. |
| 10:12 | zcorpan_ | adds a note about [Reflect] to web dom core |
| 13:37 | <hsivonen> | is <object> fallback known to suck in IE6? |
| 13:50 | <hsivonen> | Does IE6 ever show <object> fallback? |
| 14:00 | <Lachy> | In the Window interface, why is the window attribute defined as WindowProxy? It only seems to be IE that exhibits that weird behaviour of making (window === window.window) return false. |
| 14:01 | <Lachy> | though it still returns true when just == is used instead of === |
| 14:03 | <hsivonen> | Does Opera still have a feature that shows the document outline? |
| 14:03 | <hsivonen> | I think it did in the Opera 5 or 7 days |
| 14:03 | <hsivonen> | but now I can't find it in 10 |
| 14:04 | <Lachy> | I've never seen that feature |
| 14:04 | <hsivonen> | maybe my memory fails me |
| 14:05 | <Lachy> | I never used Opera back in the version 5 days though, so it's possible that it did |
| 14:06 | <jgraham> | Lachy: AIUI all browsers have something like WindowProxy |
| 14:08 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: View -> Style -> Table of Contents, maybe? |
| 14:08 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I think that's not it. |
| 14:41 | <rubys> | hsivonen: do you develop on / have ready access to a Linux box? |
| 14:42 | <hsivonen> | rubys: I don't develop on Linux. I have a VM in the office and a real but slow Linux box at home. |
| 14:44 | <rubys> | http://svn.versiondude.net/whattf/htmlparser/trunk/ruby-gcj/test/domencoding.rb |
| 14:45 | <rubys> | doesn't do much yet, but is wrapping a Java Document in Ruby and exposing a method on that Ruby object that extracts data from the underlying Java object. |
| 14:46 | <hsivonen> | is encoding the data? |
| 14:46 | <rubys> | yes: String *encoding = jdoc->getXmlEncoding(); |
| 14:48 | <rubys> | I've been slowed down by two Ubuntu/gcj/jaxp bugs... but if I'm past them, it is now simply a matter of adding more objects and more methods. |
| 14:48 | <rubys> | I've only tested it so far on Ubuntu and Fedora; don't know what it would take to reproduce on OSX or Windows. |
| 15:04 | <MikeSmith> | rubys: |
| 15:04 | rubys | listening |
| 15:05 | <MikeSmith> | gcjh -force -o headers/DomUtils.h -cp /usr/share/java/libgcj-4.3.jar:classes DomUtils |
| 15:05 | <MikeSmith> | rake aborted! |
| 15:05 | <MikeSmith> | Command failed with status (127): [gcjh -force -o headers/DomUtils.h -cp /usr...] |
| 15:05 | <rubys> | os? |
| 15:06 | <MikeSmith> | debian linux |
| 15:06 | <MikeSmith> | testing/unstable |
| 15:06 | <MikeSmith> | rubys: I just need to run "rake" in the build dir? |
| 15:06 | <MikeSmith> | or is there a configure step? |
| 15:06 | MikeSmith | opens the README |
| 15:06 | <rubys> | rake runs extconf... checking. |
| 15:06 | <MikeSmith> | maybe I need ruby-dev |
| 15:07 | <MikeSmith> | not sure I have it |
| 15:07 | <MikeSmith> | yet |
| 15:07 | <rubys> | that shouldn't cause gcjh to fail |
| 15:08 | <MikeSmith> | rubys: actually, I think I had no gcj |
| 15:08 | <MikeSmith> | because I removed it |
| 15:08 | <rubys> | that would cause gcjh to fail :-) |
| 15:09 | <MikeSmith> | gcj package pulls in dependencies like that fastjar thing, that screw with existing tools |
| 15:09 | <MikeSmith> | in that they don't behave like the stuff they are supposed to replace |
| 15:11 | <MikeSmith> | anyway, now installing fastjar gcj-4.3 libecj-java libecj-java-gcj libgcj9-dev |
| 15:14 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: BTW I looked in Opera 6 + 7 and couldn't see an outline toolbar |
| 15:15 | <jgraham> | s/toolbar/tool/ |
| 15:15 | <jgraham> | (but it is quite likely I missed something) |
| 15:18 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: Netscape used to have it |
| 15:18 | <gsnedders> | hsivonen: And maybe early Moz suite too? |
| 15:18 | <MikeSmith> | rubys: coool. I now have a validator.so |
| 15:18 | <MikeSmith> | and libnu-* stuff |
| 15:19 | <rubys> | :-) |
| 15:19 | <rubys> | doesn't do much yet, but the rest should be cookie-cutter |
| 15:19 | MikeSmith | now tries "rake test" |
| 15:20 | <MikeSmith> | works |
| 16:39 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Which version? |
| 16:39 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Dunno. |
| 16:39 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: I certainly remember it existing, and I'm pretty sure it was Netscape |
| 16:40 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: I want to say the early (pre-1.0) moz releases though |
| 16:40 | <gsnedders> | Which was what, 6? |
| 16:40 | <gsnedders> | Was 7 as well? |
| 16:40 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: I can't see it in 7 |
| 16:41 | <jgraham> | Although it makes my eyes bleed to look at |
| 16:41 | <jgraham> | so I can't search that well... |
| 16:41 | <gsnedders> | I certainly remember some old Mac OS browser having it. |
| 16:42 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: iCab? |
| 16:42 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: No |
| 16:42 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: IE/NN I think |
| 16:42 | gsnedders | opens IE 5.2 |
| 16:43 | <gsnedders> | Not IE |
| 16:45 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: It seems possible that someone developed an outline view for the sidebar thing in NS6/7 |
| 16:45 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: It was a default thing in sidebar for some browser |
| 16:46 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Not afaict. Could you have had an ISP provided "enhanced" browser or something? |
| 16:46 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: No |
| 16:47 | <gsnedders> | Anyhow, I head off to pack |
| 17:19 | <MikeSmith> | rubys: don't make the switch, man |
| 17:19 | <rubys> | so... what do you know that I don't know :-) |
| 17:20 | <MikeSmith> | nothing... I know nothing. |
| 17:20 | <MikeSmith> | (like the dude on Hogan's Heroes) |
| 17:20 | <Philip`> | Hmm, shipping versions of Fedora have beta versions of Firefox? That doesn't sound like an excellent idea for stability |
| 17:20 | <rubys> | Ubuntu did that for Firefox 2 IIRC. |
| 17:21 | <Philip`> | That doesn't sound like an excellent idea for stability either |
| 17:21 | <Philip`> | though I thought it was for FF3? |
| 17:21 | <MikeSmith> | Philip`: fedora doesn't seem to care much about stability |
| 17:21 | <Philip`> | which had some nasty fsync bug on Linux, that all the Ubuntu users were exposed to |
| 17:21 | rubys | might have been 3 |
| 17:21 | <Philip`> | or something like that |
| 17:22 | Philip` | is happy to stick with Gentoo, where there's no temptation to mark a package as stable prematurely just to avoid having to delay it a year until the next release |
| 17:24 | <rubys> | releases are every six months for Ubuntu (and apparently for Fedora) |
| 17:24 | <Philip`> | Ah |
| 17:24 | <Philip`> | s/a year/six months/ then :-) |
| 17:28 | gsnedders | grumbles at finding the suitcase he was going to use has a mass of 12kg, which with Ryanair's limit of 15kg is problematic |
| 17:30 | <Philip`> | Fortunately 12 < 15 |
| 17:30 | <beowulf> | is your suitcase made of wood? |
| 17:30 | <beowulf> | somewhat like a clog, carved from a single scots pine |
| 17:31 | <Philip`> | You could fill the suitcase with helium to reduce its weight (which is what really matters) |
| 17:32 | <Dashiva> | I don't think gas containers are allowed |
| 17:33 | <Philip`> | I think it's kind of hard to have a container that doesn't contain gas, unless it contains a vacuum |
| 17:33 | <Philip`> | (or a liquid, but that's certainly not allowed) |
| 17:34 | <Dashiva> | I don't think you'll get through airport security with dictionary definitions |
| 17:34 | <jgraham> | No, seriously, how do you have a 12kg suitcase? |
| 17:34 | <jgraham> | Or does it have stuff in? |
| 17:34 | <beowulf> | perhaps it has hidden compartments stuffed full of narcotics |
| 17:35 | <jgraham> | In hich case you haven't deined the problem well enough |
| 17:35 | <beowulf> | but i like to imagine it's made of wood |
| 17:35 | <Dashiva> | It's lined with osmium |
| 17:36 | <Philip`> | Dashiva: It won't matter anyway because after your bag has been weighed, the security people can open it up to search for illicit contents and the helium gas will disperse harmlessly and invisibly |
| 17:36 | <Philip`> | although the security people might start speaking in high-pitched voices which would give the game away |
| 17:36 | <Dashiva> | Yes |
| 17:36 | <Dashiva> | And then you'd get sued for emotional distress too |
| 17:38 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: I can't work that out. |
| 17:38 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: There's nothing in it. |
| 17:38 | <Philip`> | Fill it with hydrogen, and then it'll be much safer |
| 17:38 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 17:38 | <Philip`> | since that has less obvious effects than helium |
| 17:38 | <gsnedders> | What happens if the security people smoke? |
| 17:38 | <Philip`> | unless the security people are smokers, in which case they clearly deserve what they get |
| 17:38 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: You have a suitcase that, when empty, has a mass of 12kg? |
| 17:38 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Yes. |
| 17:39 | <Philip`> | gsnedders: Oh, you beat me :-( |
| 17:39 | <jgraham> | That is insane |
| 17:39 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: Is smoking in a public place indoors illegal in England nowadays? |
| 17:39 | <jgraham> | Or at least not designed for air travel |
| 17:39 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Yes |
| 17:40 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: WTF does said suitcase date from, and wtf was its intended purpose? |
| 17:40 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: A couple of years ago, dunno. |
| 17:40 | <Philip`> | Perhaps it was designed for carrying radioactive devices? |
| 17:41 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: Well, it'd leak a lot of radiation even with its weight |
| 17:41 | <jgraham> | Philip`: Sounds like a reasonable theory |
| 17:41 | <gsnedders> | (As it doesn't appear to be made of lead, though I expect it would stop alpha and beta radiation… but I expect most suitcases would) |
| 17:44 | <jgraham> | Seriously? 13kg? |
| 17:44 | <Philip`> | jgraham: No, 12kg |
| 17:45 | <jgraham> | Oh |
| 17:45 | <jgraham> | Well that's alright then |
| 17:45 | <jgraham> | 3kg should be more than enough for anyone |
| 17:49 | <takkaria> | 12kg for a suitcase is indeed impressive |
| 17:50 | <Dashiva> | Most laptops only weigh 2kg (or less) anyhow |
| 17:52 | <Philip`> | You could remove the keys that aren't very useful, like ` and F6, to save more weight |
| 17:53 | <takkaria> | my macbook is 2kg and it's pretty light |
| 17:54 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: That would be relevant if I had a keyboard in the hold. |
| 17:54 | gsnedders | finds a slightly larger case weighing 8kg |
| 17:54 | <jgraham> | takkaria: You still upstairs or you have got internet wherever you are residing now? |
| 17:55 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Surely you can find a bag that weighs < 2kg? |
| 17:55 | <takkaria> | jgraham: I got to my apartment a couple hours ago, and internet is here |
| 17:55 | <jgraham> | takkaria: Oh cool |
| 17:56 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Seemingly not. |
| 17:56 | gsnedders | has internet in his apartment |
| 17:56 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Well obviously the blame lies with you |
| 17:56 | <Midler> | takkaria: If i sat down on ur macbook, it would break |
| 17:56 | <Midler> | =) |
| 17:57 | <gsnedders> | Midler: If I sat down on your computer, it would likely break. |
| 17:57 | <Midler> | ok, no more jokes for me in here... |
| 17:58 | <takkaria> | gsnedders: whereabouts are you living/when areyou gettinghere/what team are you on? |
| 17:58 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Suitcases all appear to be surprisingly heavy |
| 17:58 | <takkaria> | my suitcase is 5kg |
| 17:59 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: A street whose name I cannot spell and which I have no idea how to pronounce, number 12. Friday. Dunno. |
| 17:59 | takkaria | grins, sounds about right |
| 17:59 | <gsnedders> | (I'm going down on sleeper to London tonight, and I fly from STN on Friday) |
| 18:00 | <gsnedders> | (And I come back from Linköping via Berlin and London, so I don't get home for around two weeks after my internship ends) |
| 18:00 | <gsnedders> | (So I need to pack for until then) |
| 18:01 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: How big is your suitcase? |
| 18:01 | <takkaria> | about so big |
| 18:01 | takkaria | gestures towards the suitcase |
| 18:01 | <gsnedders> | :) |
| 18:02 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: Where are you staying? |
| 18:02 | <gsnedders> | /what team are you on? |
| 18:02 | <takkaria> | I'm in Gottfriedsberg which is southwest of the office, about 20 minutes walk, on a road named Bjälbogatan and I'm on the Mini team |
| 18:03 | <takkaria> | we haven't quite figured out what I'm actually going to be doing on the Mini team yet though |
| 18:03 | <gsnedders> | hah. awesome. |
| 18:05 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: I'm basically north of you then |
| 18:08 | <gsnedders> | Weee… less humid in Linköping than it is here |
| 18:09 | <takkaria> | jgraham: amusingly we haven't been able to get me a login yet, so my first day was mostly chatting |
| 18:09 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: Are there other interns around? |
| 18:09 | <takkaria> | not AFAIK |
| 18:09 | <gsnedders> | Then I guess that means they'll probably fix it for all interns :( |
| 18:10 | <takkaria> | fix what? |
| 18:10 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: Fix insofar as get logins |
| 18:11 | <takkaria> | oh, right |
| 18:12 | <takkaria> | hopefully I'll have one tomorrow |
| 18:13 | gsnedders | wonders how much clothing to take |
| 18:13 | <Midler> | How come you are wisiting sweden? |
| 18:13 | <Midler> | *visiting |
| 18:13 | <gsnedders> | Midler: I'm not; both myself and takkaria are interns at Opera's Linköping office this summer |
| 18:14 | <Midler> | aha, ok |
| 18:15 | <takkaria> | gsnedders: not much, I'd say |
| 18:16 | gsnedders | is far too much of a girl to accept that :P |
| 18:16 | <takkaria> | a week's worth of clothes, basically is what I went for |
| 18:17 | <gsnedders> | I mean, it's hardly as if one of my friends was telling some of the younger people from my school on the Hadrian's Wall trip at the weekend that I was their "gay best friend in female form" :P |
| 18:17 | <Midler> | Atleast the weather is getting nice now =) Enjoy your visit! |
| 18:18 | <gsnedders> | (Does that make me a lesbian?) |
| 18:19 | <gsnedders> | (It's certainly more fun to claim to be a lesbian, as that just confuses people) |
| 18:20 | <takkaria> | do you wear short, spiky hair and chequed shirts? :) |
| 18:20 | <gsnedders> | No, long hair in pony tail |
| 18:20 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 18:20 | <gsnedders> | Though I do own a chequed shirt :) |
| 18:21 | <gsnedders> | takkaria: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsnedders/3331908722/ |
| 18:22 | <takkaria> | ah, I used to have long brown hair |
| 18:22 | <takkaria> | then I cut it short and dyed it blonde |
| 18:27 | <gsnedders> | There's a photo of me on Facebook with green hair |
| 18:28 | <gsnedders> | http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsnedders/3494620206/ — one of the very few occasions I've had my hair down in around six months |
| 19:08 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: There are a couple of interns in core already |
| 19:09 | <jgraham> | (so I guess it is just takkaria who is having difficulties) |
| 19:54 | <Dashiva> | http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/06/22/comic-update-who-really-is-the-wizard-of-html5/ |
| 19:54 | <Dashiva> | "If the data-harvesting Ian performs can’t be independently verified" -- Doesn't Philip` do this most of the time already? |
| 19:54 | <Philip`> | Yes |
| 19:55 | <Philip`> | I posted a comment there a while ago, but I guess it's being moderated or something |
| 19:55 | <gsnedders> | Dashiva: Lies! |
| 19:56 | gsnedders | grumbles at it being virtually impossible to do anything on his computer with IO at limit on all disks |
| 19:56 | <Dashiva> | So since there are no actual complaints about the contents, I suppose everything is okay again then |
| 20:02 | <jgraham> | I just posted a comment saying basically what Philip` was presumably going to say and it seems to have got through |
| 20:04 | <Philip`> | I tried saying what I'd said again but it said I'd already said it |
| 20:29 | <Dashiva> | So did the RDFa spec writers really expect that nobody would care enough to use it in HTML? |
| 20:32 | <jgraham> | Dashiva: Are you wondering for a reason? |
| 20:34 | <Dashiva> | It's easy to imagine reasoning from ignorance (HTML is irrelevant) and malice (grandfather it in later), but I don't think either of those really was the case. Surely they had some other reasoning. |
| 20:34 | <Philip`> | They were chartered to write a spec for RDFa in XHTML, so what else could they do? |
| 20:35 | <Dashiva> | They could make something that would be easy to extend into HTML :) |
| 20:36 | <Dashiva> | After all, most of the XHTML on the web is text/html anyhow. It's not like it makes a difference. |
| 20:39 | <gsnedders> | Dashiva: See /topic |
| 20:39 | <Dashiva> | But they aren't whatwg :P |
| 20:40 | <jgraham> | On the basis that the people doing the work now were likely to have had some influence on the charter, I would guess that the most likely reason is that they believed all the hype about HTML being dead and XHTML being the future. Indeed I would guess that they were generating that hype |
| 21:05 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Here's how I think a suitcase can weigh 12kg: it actually weighs 12 lbs (e.g., 5.4 kg) |
| 21:19 | <takkaria> | ah, a unit mismatch. that's one of the classic blunders |