| 00:25 | <websafestudio> | Greetings! Why have I been asked to leave my sense of logic at the door? *curious* |
| 00:27 | <websafestudio> | I ask, because I thought that logic was the sine qua non of computer work of any kind. |
| 00:27 | <gsnedders> | HTML is far from logical. |
| 00:27 | <websafestudio> | lol |
| 00:27 | <websafestudio> | *mulls this over* |
| 00:27 | <gsnedders> | (See: <image> becomes "img" in the DOM) |
| 00:28 | <websafestudio> | But that was a saving of two letters! |
| 00:28 | <websafestudio> | <p> is a lot shorter than <paragraph> would be. |
| 00:29 | <gsnedders> | That's not what I mean, put <image> in an HTML file, you get "img" in the DOM. |
| 00:29 | <gsnedders> | The tag name magically changes. |
| 00:29 | <gsnedders> | Oh, and then there's <isindex> |
| 00:29 | <gsnedders> | That's also nice and logical. |
| 00:30 | <websafestudio> | *scratches head to remember* Isn't <isindex> for makign image maps? |
| 00:30 | <AryehGregor> | websafestudio, HTML isn't logical because it accumulated over years by dint of vendors randomly adding stuff they thought would be neat. HTML5 tries to reflect that reality by specifying all the craziness clearly. |
| 00:30 | <AryehGregor> | As opposed to initiatives like XHTML2 that have tried to do things in a more "logical" but less pragmatic way. |
| 00:30 | <AryehGregor> | At least that's how I interpret it. |
| 00:31 | <websafestudio> | Pragmatic = moneymaking? in this instance |
| 00:31 | <websafestudio> | *thinks she understands* |
| 00:31 | <daedb> | pragmatic = stuff that actually works on the web |
| 00:32 | <websafestudio> | But ... more logical, but less pragmatic? *confused* |
| 00:32 | <websafestudio> | Isn't using a logical approach a practical thing? |
| 00:32 | <daedb> | XHTML2 had some neat logical features, but it wasn't backwards compatible so actually using it would be highly impractical. |
| 00:33 | <websafestudio> | I see ... In a perfect Web world, what browser would you like to see used? |
| 00:34 | <annevk> | in a perfect world there would be no computers, doh |
| 00:34 | <websafestudio> | Hmmm ... |
| 00:34 | <websafestudio> | Would there be mental telepathy? |
| 00:34 | annevk | should get some sleep |
| 00:34 | <annevk> | nn |
| 00:35 | <daedb> | In a perfect world the web would just stream right into our brains. |
| 00:35 | <websafestudio> | Sleep is a form of mental telepathy -- perhaps -- or rather, dreaming may be |
| 00:35 | <websafestudio> | Right, daedb -- Will that happen in our lifetimes? |
| 00:36 | <daedb> | I dunno, depends on how long we live :) |
| 00:36 | <websafestudio> | On a pragmatic note: I have just finished reading "Designing with Web Standards," Edition 3 (2009) and am slowly absorbing its message |
| 00:37 | <websafestudio> | I am earnestly trying to become a better Web designer -- is it hopeless? Is the game worth the candle? (I ask myself this after wrestling with minutiae like margins of lists) |
| 00:39 | <websafestudio> | All right, thanks for chatting, must go eat supper. |
| 11:48 | <smaug> | Grr, session history. |
| 18:23 | gsnedders | pushes Anolis 1.1 |
| 18:25 | <gsnedders> | (There basically nothing interesting new in it) |
| 18:26 | <gsnedders> | (It supports html5lib tip, it's up-to-date with the spec for the outliner impl, and data-anolis-xref exists) |
| 18:26 | <gsnedders> | Wait, didn't I agree to change that to data-xref? |
| 18:26 | <gsnedders> | Gah. |
| 23:42 | <nessy> | foolip: congrats on the HTML5 video release of Opera!! |
| 23:44 | <foolip> | nessy: thank you :) |
| 23:45 | <foolip> | you can see why I haven't replied to the media fragments thread in a few days now |
| 23:45 | <nessy> | say, if I install gstreamer on the mac, will it work? |
| 23:45 | <nessy> | sure, you do what you have to do |
| 23:45 | <foolip> | no, the feature is disabled, so it won't even try looking for GStreamer |
| 23:45 | <nessy> | I feel really bad for not having had any time to work on a11y stuff since TPAC - only media fragments and other contracts |
| 23:46 | <foolip> | also, I don't believe there is a standard GStreamer distribution for Mac, is there? |
| 23:46 | <nessy> | there are always priorities :-) |
| 23:46 | <nessy> | I have just port installed gstreamer on the mac, so yes, there is |
| 23:47 | <nessy> | port is a standard distro for the mac |
| 23:47 | <nessy> | fink is the other one |
| 23:48 | <nessy> | and even fink has a gstreamer package http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/gstreamer-0.10 |
| 23:49 | <nessy> | this is the port package: http://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/gnome/gstreamer/Portfile |
| 23:49 | <nessy> | you might want to consider falling back to these on the mac when installed |
| 23:51 | <foolip> | right, I installed those once |
| 23:52 | <foolip> | however, we can't ask users to install that, it has a ridiculous amount of dependencies |
| 23:52 | <foolip> | with the lack of a package manager, it can't be automated even |
| 23:52 | <nessy> | no, you cannot expect it |
| 23:53 | <nessy> | but just like on Linux, where you also cannot expect it to be installed, you can still fall back to it if available |
| 23:53 | <foolip> | but on linux it is "native", and we can let the packages depend on the right packages |
| 23:54 | <nessy> | it's as much "native" on macports as it is on ubuntu |
| 23:54 | <nessy> | it's just a package to be installed |
| 23:54 | <nessy> | I just did "port install gstreamer" and it got all the dependencies |
| 23:54 | <foolip> | macports isn't native to Mac though is it? |
| 23:54 | <nessy> | if you do any kind of development on the mac, it is |
| 23:55 | <nessy> | normal users probably won't have it installed |
| 23:55 | <nessy> | this is why I say: when it's available, it would make sense to fall back to it |
| 23:55 | <nessy> | otherwise you can do what you do on windows |
| 23:55 | <nessy> | btw: some ppl also have gstreamer "natively" installed on Windows - but probably a lot less than those who have macports or fink |
| 23:55 | <foolip> | I will make a minimal mac build, like on windows |
| 23:56 | <nessy> | yeah, that will be the best |
| 23:56 | <nessy> | but why not have that for all platforms and only use it where gstreamer is not installed natively? |
| 23:59 | <foolip> | on Unix there's no need - GStreamer will be there (once our package dependencies or installer scripts make it so) |