| 02:58 | <Hixie> | huh |
| 02:59 | <Hixie> | ever since he retracted his formal objection, larry's been posting to the public-html list with a different (non-adobe) e-mail address |
| 02:59 | <mpilgrim> | AryehGregor: I can't find an authoritative statement on chrome.blogspot.com, blog.chromium.org, or dev.chromium.org about supported codecs |
| 02:59 | <mpilgrim> | which surprises me |
| 03:00 | <mpilgrim> | and since i'm on the chrome developer relations team, i will personally find out what each product supports and blog about it in an authoritative place |
| 03:02 | <mpilgrim> | for <video>, chromium only supports theora/vorbis in an ogg container |
| 03:02 | <boblet> | http://000000book.com/ GML; graffiti markup language (yep, there’s a markup language for that) |
| 03:02 | <mpilgrim> | for <audio>, chromium only supports vorbis |
| 03:02 | <mpilgrim> | UNLESS |
| 03:02 | <mpilgrim> | you install the non-free codecs |
| 03:03 | <mpilgrim> | this is packaged in the ubuntu PPA as chromium-codecs-ffmpeg-nonfree.deb |
| 03:03 | <mpilgrim> | then chromium will supports exactly what chrome supports |
| 03:03 | <mpilgrim> | but i'm not exactly sure what that is |
| 03:03 | <mpilgrim> | it includes H.264/AAC in an MP4 container |
| 03:03 | <mpilgrim> | for <video> |
| 03:04 | <mpilgrim> | it also includes MP3 for <audio> |
| 03:04 | <mpilgrim> | i believe chrome also supports MP3 tracks in a video |
| 03:04 | <mpilgrim> | but i will double-check that |
| 03:05 | <mpilgrim> | and since it's based on ffmpeg, i *think* it supports up to and including High Profile H.264, all profiles of AAC, etc. |
| 03:05 | <mpilgrim> | but i will double-check that too |
| 03:07 | <mpilgrim> | i have no information on if, when, or whether chrome will add support for VP8 or any of the other On2 codecs that we just acquired |
| 03:10 | <mpilgrim> | neither chromium nor chrome use gstreamer, directshow, quicktime, or any other media backends |
| 03:10 | <mpilgrim> | we built our own, some details are here: http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/video |
| 03:11 | <mpilgrim> | there is a bug asking us to rip that out and use gstreamer instead: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=32861 |
| 03:13 | <mpilgrim> | it's marked "WONTFIX" |
| 07:14 | <JonathanNeal> | hey all |
| 08:51 | <jgraham> | http://blog.mozilla.com/webdev/2010/02/25/new-python-library-bleach/ |
| 08:53 | <Philip`> | I thought for a moment that was a Python port of http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Acme-Bleach-1.12/lib/Acme/Bleach.pm |
| 08:54 | <jgraham> | Philip`: People with that level of evil malice are all perl programmers |
| 08:57 | <othermaciej> | Philip`: that is evil |
| 09:01 | <roc> | oooff |
| 10:08 | <annevk> | some of these guys on the hybi list aah |
| 10:09 | <hsivonen> | I guess I should still be glad I don't read the hybi list |
| 10:14 | <Dashiva> | hsivonen: Careful or annevk might start quoting it :P |
| 10:15 | <annevk> | Dashiva, you'd like that, wouldn't you? :p |
| 10:16 | <Dashiva> | Pssh, I can read it for myself :P |
| 10:28 | <annevk> | unrelated to what I said above, Julian on hybi: "Hm, no. Break backwards compatibility if it brings clear benefits, and the damage is not too big." |
| 10:28 | <othermaciej> | oh no, there's more posts on hybi |
| 10:28 | <annevk> | jaja |
| 10:33 | <othermaciej> | I should really teach myself not to post to standards lists late at night |
| 10:33 | <othermaciej> | comes out snarky too often |
| 10:33 | <gsnedders> | othermaciej? Snarky? NEver! |
| 10:35 | <othermaciej> | there's also return of the son of the versioning permathread on public-html |
| 10:40 | <roc> | someone needs to write "Extending The Web Platform For Dummies" |
| 10:40 | jgraham | looks at public-html notices a thread called (roughly) html-versioning vs. longdesc, wonders who came up with the idea of permathread deathmatches as a way or resolving issues |
| 10:42 | <annevk> | also something about Web Platform protocol/API/markup language design for dummies |
| 10:42 | <othermaciej> | jgraham: that was Larry's idea |
| 10:44 | <othermaciej> | if we could really arrange to have two permathreads enter, and only only one will leave, I would be all for it |
| 10:44 | <othermaciej> | but I fear that two will enter, and three will leave |
| 10:44 | <Hixie> | rofl at othermaciej's last e-mail |
| 10:45 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: that was probably the one I shouldn't have sent |
| 10:52 | <Dashiva> | Amusing that some people consider atom 0.3 vs 1.0 a success |
| 10:54 | <gsnedders> | I'd say it was |
| 10:55 | <Dashiva> | A success in ensuring there are now two incompatible atom formats that both need to be supported |
| 10:55 | <Philip`> | A success in ensuring there are only two incompatible formats and not more |
| 12:49 | <gsnedders> | Wow, Hixie accepted my feedback. |
| 12:49 | <gsnedders> | :P |
| 13:07 | <jgraham> | What was it? Conforming html5 documents MUST contain a link to donate to your paypal account? |
| 13:11 | <gsnedders> | I'm under 18, I'm not allowed a paypal account |
| 13:11 | <jgraham> | There's lots of things you're not allowed but that doesn't stop you |
| 13:11 | <jgraham> | Anyway you will be 30 by the time HTML5 is a REC |
| 13:37 | <asmodai> | Mmm, interesting little project: http://code.google.com/p/html5media/ |
| 13:37 | <asmodai> | GUess it was pasted to the channel before. |
| 13:44 | <hsivonen> | asmodai: I like how the script hard-codes a magic H.264 profile |
| 13:45 | <hsivonen> | in practice, mortals are not going to get the codecs parameter right for their particular H.264 |
| 13:45 | <hsivonen> | profiles FAIL |
| 13:47 | <annevk> | that line is part of the unwritten book on Web format design |
| 13:48 | <asmodai> | hsivonen: Hadn't even seen that yet ;) |
| 13:54 | <Philip`> | Just need to make sure encoding programs give you a nice UI so you can choose some combination of "iPhone compatible" and "Maximum compression (not compatible with mobile devices)" etc, and then they encode all the versions and spit out the appropriate chunk of HTML to use |
| 13:54 | <Philip`> | Surely that can't be hard to do |
| 13:54 | MikeSmith | reads discussion about validation on public-html |
| 13:55 | <jgraham> | "Surely that can't be hard to do" is more or loss what got us the state of the web today |
| 13:55 | <jgraham> | *less |
| 13:55 | <Philip`> | Sure, but that's not going to stop me being sure about it |
| 13:55 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: those piece will be even harder to keep together than keeping files and MIME types without parameters together |
| 13:55 | <Philip`> | (It'll stop me being correct, of course) |
| 13:57 | <hsivonen> | I'm struggling with my old nemesis: the onload event |
| 13:57 | <hsivonen> | s/onload/load/ |
| 14:02 | <annevk> | I just realized |
| 14:02 | <annevk> | reading public-html is like reading the newspaper, almost always bad news |
| 14:04 | jgraham | is finding the blizzard outside rather distracting |
| 14:04 | <gsnedders> | Me too. |
| 14:04 | <gsnedders> | The fact I know I have to walk home in that makes me sad. |
| 14:05 | <jgraham> | Camp at the office? |
| 14:06 | <gsnedders> | Seems rather dull. |
| 14:06 | <gsnedders> | But so does my flat. |
| 14:06 | <gsnedders> | Oh well. |
| 14:07 | <annevk> | you should come party in the Netherlands |
| 14:08 | <gsnedders> | Hmm… Flights to Amsterdam… |
| 14:09 | <asmodai> | annevk: Where you at in NL anyway? |
| 14:09 | <annevk> | Utrecht |
| 14:09 | <asmodai> | Ahh, Utreg |
| 14:10 | <asmodai> | Area of the clogged motorways ^^ |
| 14:10 | <annevk> | no car, no problems :) |
| 14:10 | <asmodai> | True, true. |
| 14:11 | <annevk> | you're Dutch too right? /whois says so anyway |
| 14:11 | <asmodai> | Aye, work in R'dam, live in Barendrecht |
| 14:12 | <annevk> | might go to bar with the gang from #fronteers on Wednesday here in Utrecht |
| 14:12 | <annevk> | pretty sure everyone here would be welcome to come and otherwise I'll take a hit |
| 14:13 | <asmodai> | #fronteers? |
| 14:14 | <annevk> | IRC channel from http://fronteers.nl/ |
| 14:15 | <asmodai> | Ah |
| 14:16 | <asmodai> | Wasn't even aware of that group. |
| 14:16 | <asmodai> | Useful, since we do a shitload of web dev here at the uni. |
| 14:17 | <MikeSmith> | I'm trying to figure out what, if any, new information there is in http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0rp834wf "Privacy Issues of the W3C Geolocation API" |
| 14:17 | <annevk> | krijnh throws a party for each new member |
| 14:19 | <Peter`> | He still owes me one in that case :p |
| 14:30 | <asmodai> | annevk: hahaha |
| 14:30 | <asmodai> | annevk: Sounds ideal. :) |
| 14:34 | <boblet> | are there any HTML5 elements that aren’t media-independent now? |
| 14:35 | <Dashiva> | audio? |
| 14:37 | <boblet> | Dashiva: I’m guessing that the media independence of img, video, canvas & audio is the mentioning of a11y alternatives, right? |
| 15:07 | <MikeSmith> | I notice http://wiki.commonjs.org/wiki/Binary/F was added recently.. wondering if the Ecmascript TC has been discussing anything about it or other JS binary-datatype proposals recently |
| 16:17 | <beilabs> | Quick question, is The Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group the same group as WebApps WG? |
| 16:20 | <jgraham> | No |
| 16:52 | zcorpan | does s/autobuffer/preload/ in http://simon.html5.org/html5-elements |
| 17:40 | <othermaciej> | I need to update mine |
| 17:41 | <Dashiva> | Looks like someone tried to implement acid2: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kycn8zaXYz1qzpwi0o1_500.jpg |
| 19:16 | <JonathanNeal> | Hey all! |
| 19:17 | <TabAtkins> | yo, JonathanNeal. |
| 19:27 | <JonathanNeal> | What's new in the htmizzle? |
| 19:30 | <Necrathex> | the <bling> element |
| 19:31 | Philip` | groans |
| 19:40 | <jwalden> | the data-pimped-out="data-pimped-out" attribute |
| 19:45 | <zcorpan__> | data-mining="" |
| 19:50 | <zcorpan__> | someone should set up a twitter account announcing the daily new html5 data-* attribute |
| 19:51 | <zcorpan__> | sometimes with a new attribute on <embed> |
| 19:53 | <jwalden> | <blinquee data-scrolling-speed="11" /> |
| 19:59 | <Philip`> | Someone should make an HTML5 Applicable Specification generator |
| 19:59 | <Philip`> | You tell it what elements and attributes you want to be valid, and it writes a spec for you |
| 20:00 | <zcorpan__> | it should also output a pluggable schema and the appropriate validator.nu url |
| 20:05 | <zcorpan__> | mpilgrim: btw, i guess you should update diveintohtml5 wrt autobuffer |
| 20:08 | <zcorpan__> | mpilgrim: the js impl would probably look for a preload attribute with value empty string or ascii-case-insensitive "auto" to mean the same as yesterday's autobuffer |
| 21:18 | <annevk> | Google acquired a Flash-based app? that's funny giving all the recent commotion |
| 21:25 | <annevk> | that thing on Wednesday in Utrecht now has an associated blog post: http://fronteers.nl/blog/2010/03/spontaanborrel-woensdag |
| 21:26 | <annevk> | http://twitter.com/jreschke/status/9818873134 -- didn't masinter say he switched to using that address because of The Incident? |
| 21:26 | <annevk> | on his blog or something |
| 21:26 | <annevk> | I'm now wondering why I even care |
| 21:26 | annevk | goes back to reading QC |
| 21:27 | <othermaciej> | maybe the claimed piece of misinformation was that Larry "retracted his Formal Objection" |
| 21:27 | <othermaciej> | (since according to Larry, he never made a Formal Objection) |
| 21:29 | <annevk> | ooh, I guess you're right, lol |
| 21:32 | <JonathanNeal> | data-picard="great combo" |
| 21:39 | <othermaciej> | annevk: could you update HTML4 diffs for publication as a Working Draft this Thursday? |
| 21:39 | <othermaciej> | annevk: see email |
| 21:39 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: same for your drafts and we have a minor status change request |
| 21:42 | <jwalden> | krijnh: would it be possible to change the name/nick-styling cookie on the logs site to be effectively permanent? month-long lifetime doesn't serve much purpose given the contents of the cookies in question |
| 21:47 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: tuesday march 2nd? sure |
| 21:47 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: what's the change? |
| 21:47 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: Thursday March 4 please |
| 21:47 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Mar/0025.html |
| 21:47 | <othermaciej> | for the change |
| 21:47 | <Hixie> | oh thursday, sorry, misread |
| 21:47 | <othermaciej> | can explain further if needed but I have an interview in 6 minutes |
| 21:48 | <Hixie> | nothing more to explain, will do |
| 21:49 | <othermaciej> | thanks much |
| 21:52 | <Hixie> | changed s/specification is/contents of this specification are also/ |
| 21:53 | <Hixie> | oh wait the requested change was more than that |
| 21:53 | zcorpan__ | was just going to say... |
| 22:12 | <annevk> | I will tomorrow or so |
| 22:12 | <annevk> | I guess that would be a good time to integrate recent changes as well |
| 22:13 | <annevk> | data-driven="marcos" |
| 22:50 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: is the registry for issue 27 testable yet? |
| 22:51 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: i'm happy to be a volunteer to test the registry once it exists, though we should probably have several people do so to get a reasonable idea of the results |
| 22:54 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: I believe the essential part of the requested status change was s/this specification/the contents of this specification/ |
| 22:54 | <Hixie> | sam and i figured it out on #html-wg |
| 22:54 | <othermaciej> | k |
| 22:55 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: in issue 27 - the registry is not testable, the ETA we were given for when it would be testable was "about 6 weeks", that being 2 weeks ago now |
| 22:55 | <Hixie> | k |
| 22:55 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: we would accept someone volunteering with a long deadline to account for that, and a plan to re-evaluate if the registry is not ready in time |
| 22:56 | <Hixie> | k, i'll volunteer to organise a test of the registry when it's available |
| 22:56 | <Hixie> | issue-31 is very confusing... any chance we can get that split into one issue per actual problem instead of just having a catch-all? |
| 22:57 | <Hixie> | -32 also |
| 22:57 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: it does seem to me that (a) the three Change Proposals submitted for 31 appear to be largely orthogonal; and (b) Laura's in particular bundles multiple changes |
| 22:58 | <othermaciej> | I am not sure we want to flood the issue tracker, but I can see how it may get confusing with counter-proposals or alternatives |
| 22:58 | <Hixie> | as far as i can tell, the confusing issues are always the ones that are about a topic and not about a specific problem |
| 22:58 | <othermaciej> | On -32, I want to see what the accessibility TF actually ends up submitting |
| 22:58 | <othermaciej> | indeed, and sadly many of our pre-new-process issues are about a topic |
| 22:59 | <Hixie> | maybe i should file a bug on the process to ask that we change the issue mechanism to require that issues specify a specific problem :-) |
| 22:59 | <othermaciej> | well, that's effectively true for new issues, since they need to be escalated from a bug |
| 22:59 | <othermaciej> | question is really what, if anything, to do for the finite number of pre-existing issues that are more open-ended than we'd like for new issues |
| 23:01 | <Hixie> | ok off to work to get food so i can resume editing websocket |
| 23:01 | <Hixie> | back in a bit |
| 23:05 | <annevk> | I replied to public-html on some email about schemas -- big mistake |
| 23:06 | <annevk> | Learning from past mistakes is something I should take more seriously... |
| 23:08 | <annevk> | It was a while ago though: http://annevankesteren.nl/2007/04/html-red-pill |
| 23:08 | annevk | still likes that post |
| 23:09 | <othermaciej> | annevk: interesting to look at how many of those we are still discussing |
| 23:09 | <othermaciej> | No one seems to care about "No SGML" any more |
| 23:19 | <Dashiva> | You can remove the SGML from HTML, but you can't remove the SGML from their hearts |
