| 00:15 | zcorpan | wonders why http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/02/firefox-46-features/ has stray </p>s in there |
| 01:55 | <gsnedders> | http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0372/ |
| 01:55 | <gsnedders> | html5lib mentioned in a PEP |
| 01:55 | <gsnedders> | (it's also mentioned in the Unladen Swallow PEP) |
| 01:55 | <gsnedders> | http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3146/ |
| 06:16 | <JonathanNeal> | It's really weird when Opera, Safari, and Firefox need a style, but Internet Explorer and Chrome do not. |
| 06:27 | <JonathanNeal> | Any folks around? |
| 06:28 | <Peter`> | that's just because of UA stylesheets |
| 06:28 | <Peter`> | also the reason reset-css files exist |
| 06:33 | <JonathanNeal> | Peter`, yes I don't want to spam this board, but that's why I'm labeling all the entries in my html5 reset. |
| 06:33 | <JonathanNeal> | I should also label when I'm setting the style to match ua and when i'm setting the style to match spec. |
| 07:10 | <JonathanNeal> | I'm sure it's a slippery slope, but there are some things I wish the spec didn't leave out and up to the ua. |
| 07:15 | <Peter`> | I concur, but I doubt it's going to change anytime soon |
| 07:20 | <JonathanNeal> | I didn't realize that type="a" and type="A" didn't work. |
| 07:22 | <JonathanNeal> | They work until you specify them in css ol[type="a"] {} ol[type="A"] {} both get eval'd. |
| 07:22 | <JonathanNeal> | for either a or A |
| 07:23 | <JonathanNeal> | Wow, in Chrome it even says the UA style is for ol[type=a] but when you style ol[type=A] it overwrites it anyway. |
| 07:24 | <JonathanNeal> | So ol[type=a] and ol[type=A] are different selectors within the UA's CSS, but the same outside. |
| 07:48 | <hsivonen> | JonathanNeal: I believe the dual selectors in the UA style sheet are there because the UA style sheet gets parsed in the case-sensitive mode to make it work right with XHTML |
| 09:42 | <annevk> | hsivonen, do you see validators as conversion help? |
| 09:42 | <annevk> | hsivonen, 'cause personally I would only start using the validator after I have made some attempt at following the rules |
| 09:46 | <hsivonen> | annevk: some people have already made fairly reasonable attempts to follow the previous spec |
| 09:47 | <hsivonen> | correction |
| 09:47 | <hsivonen> | the validator for the previous spec |
| 09:47 | <hsivonen> | which is Transitional |
| 09:47 | <hsivonen> | maybe I should have clarified that I'd like to loosen things based on usage data and that I wouldn't want to permit <font face> or <font size> |
| 09:48 | <hsivonen> | basically, I think the individual pre-existing features should be measured against usage on near-valid Transitional sites |
| 09:48 | <hsivonen> | and against Hixie's stated criteria |
| 09:48 | <annevk> | Can't you just group them all into one? |
| 09:49 | <hsivonen> | I think not |
| 09:49 | <annevk> | I think Hixie suggested that already |
| 09:49 | <annevk> | I guess schema-based validation does not give you the right messages for that... |
| 10:07 | <jgraham> | It never faiuls to amaze me how much people will pay to listen to some guy from the internet talk about stuff |
| 10:08 | <jgraham> | 400 pounds for a one day workshop to learn about part of HTML 5 (or 200 if you're a student) is pretty insane |
| 10:09 | jgraham | hopes there are no students who can actually afford that |
| 10:09 | <Philip`> | Depends on the value of your time and how long it would take you to learn the same amount without that guidance |
| 10:09 | MikeSmith | wonders who the particular speaker is |
| 10:10 | <annevk> | Jeremy Keith I guess |
| 10:10 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 10:10 | <MikeSmith> | well, Jeremy's a great speaker |
| 10:10 | <annevk> | to his credit they organize a fairly cheap conference themselves in England |
| 10:11 | <jgraham> | I'm not disputing that he's a good speaker |
| 10:11 | <jgraham> | I'm just amazed that there are people who can afford it |
| 10:11 | <annevk> | I'd guess companies pay the bill |
| 10:11 | <jgraham> | Well sure. |
| 11:09 | <zcorpan> | JonathanNeal: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9102 |
| 11:27 | <annevk> | we should really remove those silly Selector rules |
| 11:27 | <annevk> | but I guess it is too late or something :/ |
| 11:30 | <zcorpan> | hmm, i wonder if the spec is broken for <input type="COLOR"/> etc in xhtml |
| 11:31 | <annevk> | broken how? |
| 11:32 | <zcorpan> | the attribute value is case-insensitive in xhtml |
| 11:32 | <zcorpan> | but the selector matches case-sensitively |
| 11:33 | <annevk> | doesn't seem like a problem to me |
| 11:34 | <annevk> | well, maybe a problem with Selectors |
| 11:34 | <zcorpan> | it's a problem because writing valid xhtml would result in broken rendering |
| 11:34 | <zcorpan> | if the spec is implemented literally |
| 11:34 | <annevk> | oh, the spec |
| 11:35 | <annevk> | sorry, I see what you mean now |
| 11:35 | <annevk> | yeah, that seems broken |
| 11:35 | zcorpan | files a bug |
| 11:38 | <annevk> | i initially thought you meant for authors trying to style such inputs |
| 12:17 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: IO think it may be worth explaining why you use OpenOffice to create web pages if it involves a significant amount of manual post-processing work. At the moment it sounds a bit like the start of a "Doctor Doctor, it hurts when I do this" joke |
| 12:18 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: it lets me do paragraphs, headings and tables |
| 12:18 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: and Nvu wasn't better at that |
| 12:19 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: and getting a Dreamweaver license would be an overkill |
| 12:19 | <jgraham> | Tables I can somewhat understand, but it seems like for paragraphs + headigns you would be better off with a text editor |
| 12:19 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I disagree |
| 12:19 | <hsivonen> | press return vs. typing all those tags |
| 12:20 | <jgraham> | Including the effort of later post-processing the output? |
| 12:20 | <hsivonen> | yes |
| 12:20 | <jgraham> | I'm pretty surprised |
| 12:20 | <jgraham> | (I guess tables also need post processing since they will not have proper headers or anything) |
| 12:21 | annevk | usually edits by hand |
| 12:22 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: tables from OOo do have <th>s |
| 12:22 | <hsivonen> | the problem with tables in that OOo wraps the cell contents in <p> |
| 12:22 | <hsivonen> | and puts style and align all over the place |
| 12:22 | <jgraham> | In the right places (and in how many scenarios)? |
| 12:23 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: I'm using OO.o Writer/Web. Are you talking about taking an OO.o Writer doc and exporting to HTML? |
| 12:23 | <hsivonen> | the "/Web" part is significant |
| 12:23 | <hsivonen> | uses HTML as the native format |
| 12:24 | <hsivonen> | and exposes semantic elements is the style palette |
| 12:24 | <annevk> | ooh great, I'm losing an hour sleep this Sunday? |
| 12:24 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Ah. My OpenOffice install doesn't include anything that obviously looks like that |
| 12:24 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: so I pulled latest htmlparser source and updated my workspace and now trying to build... does ecj have the same command-line options as javac? can I just alias javac to ecj? |
| 12:24 | <annevk> | this trip to SFO is going to be sweet :/ |
| 12:24 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: no idea. I'm working on fixing that right now (as soon as I stop typing on IRC) |
| 12:25 | <jgraham> | Oh, curious. There is no top level menu for it, but you can create a new HTML document which changes the application title |
| 12:25 | <jgraham> | s/top level menu/application menu item/ |
| 12:26 | <jgraham> | The badness of the OO.org UI never fails to amaze me |
| 12:26 | <annevk> | creating a good editor is apparently a pretty hard problem |
| 12:26 | <hsivonen> | also, never ever open an existing HTML doc into OO.o |
| 12:27 | annevk | would love a good robust web-based editor |
| 12:27 | <hsivonen> | OO.o is write-only |
| 12:27 | <jgraham> | Totally. That doesn't excuse OO.org for having a lame UI in every respect, not just for creating clean HTML |
| 12:30 | <hsivonen> | Mozilla has made much better recovery progress from having a COM clone, an app-specific crossplatform UI toolkit, an app-specific cross-platform 2D graphics layer and a horrible GUI (Netscape 6 Preview Release) than OO.o |
| 12:32 | <jgraham> | OO.o has never recovered from the policy of making a pixel-by-pixel clone of Office 95 |
| 12:32 | <jgraham> | (at least I assume it was a policy. It would be remarkable if it happened by accident) |
| 12:39 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: fix pushed to hg |
| 12:46 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: thanks |
| 12:47 | hsivonen | goes back to making the C++ version of that file compile nicely with GCC and MSVC |
| 12:47 | <hsivonen> | apperently, this area is too tough for 3 compilers |
| 13:15 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: btw, when I run jing from the command line in Terminal on OSX, I get "?" characters instead of curly quotes |
| 13:15 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: you need to set the terminal to UTF-8 |
| 13:15 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., rror: Element ?base? from namespace ?http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml? is missing one or more of the following attributes: [href, target] |
| 13:15 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: or if your terminal is in UTF-8, you need to set the System.out to UTF-8 |
| 13:16 | <MikeSmith> | ah, OK |
| 13:16 | <hsivonen> | there's a magic java system property for that |
| 13:16 | <hsivonen> | it's very sad if Apple still keeps Java defaulting to MacRoman |
| 13:17 | <hsivonen> | the system property is file.encoding |
| 13:17 | <hsivonen> | -Dfile.encoding=UTF-8 should do the trick |
| 13:17 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: OK, trying that now |
| 13:18 | <MikeSmith> | indeed, yeah, that works |
| 13:18 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 13:27 | jgraham | wonders if Sam actually read the IRC logs |
| 14:11 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I'm trying to figure out where the w:string datatype is defined |
| 14:12 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: syntax/relaxng/datatype/java/src/org/whattf/datatype/AsciiCaseInsensitiveString.java |
| 14:13 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 14:13 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 15:29 | <Philip`> | "I see value in being able to express notions such as "this page intentionally violates rule number 34"." |
| 15:29 | <Philip`> | I don't see how it's possible to violate http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleThirtyFour |
| 15:32 | <Dashiva> | Perhaps by somehow providing content that cannot be made pornographic |
| 15:34 | <Philip`> | I don't see how it's possible |
| 15:37 | <Dashiva> | That's only because you lack faith |
| 16:20 | <JonathanNeal> | Thanks for the heads up on case insensative selectors, zcorpan. |
| 16:27 | MikeSmith | wonders what client do people use for jabber.ietf.org meetings |
| 16:27 | <annevk> | Empathy |
| 16:27 | <annevk> | it ships with Ubuntu |
| 16:28 | <annevk> | and does pretty much all messaging |
| 16:29 | jgraham | doesn't go to ietf meetings but uses bitlbee+irssi for jabber (donno if that has all the needed features for that usecase though) |
| 16:29 | <annevk> | somewhat tempted to install the new Ubuntu beta |
| 16:29 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: thanks |
| 16:29 | <MikeSmith> | wonder if there's anything that works on OSX |
| 16:29 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: it uses some extension, XEP-0045 |
| 16:30 | <annevk> | MikeSmith, http://www.pidgin.im/download/mac/ prolly works |
| 16:30 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 16:30 | annevk | was using pidgin before |
| 16:40 | <lazni> | adiumx uses the pidgin lib |
| 16:42 | <annevk> | this is quite boring |
| 16:42 | <franksalim> | ? |
| 16:42 | <annevk> | iri meeting |
| 16:43 | <franksalim> | i believe that |
| 16:43 | <jgraham> | Not just anne dissing the channel |
| 16:43 | <annevk> | mumbling on Unicode, UTF-8, octet sequences |
| 16:44 | <annevk> | just some meta discussion on the presentation of a IRI vs a IRI |
| 16:52 | <Dashiva> | IRI vs IRI? |
| 16:53 | <annevk> | dunno, we're now at LEIRI and HTML5 URL... |
| 16:53 | <annevk> | but it's going very slow |
| 17:01 | <Philip`> | The concept of competition between validators would be more convincing if more than one validator existed |
| 17:02 | AryehGregor | concurs. |
| 17:02 | AryehGregor | also isn't very inspired by how few web developers seem to use non-officially-endorsed tools like jslint, compared to Standards-Based Validators |
| 17:03 | <Philip`> | Also it would be more convincing if anybody used the HTML4 validators that compete with validator.w3.org |
| 17:03 | <Philip`> | (but as far as I can tell, everyone uses the latter) |
| 17:04 | <annevk> | i've seen people use validator.nu |
| 17:04 | <Philip`> | I tried using jslint once but then I realised it was a waste of time |
| 17:04 | <Dashiva> | ^ |
| 17:05 | <Philip`> | and I was making my code uglier and less readable just to satisfy its rule for semicolons and for not using the same name with var twice in one function |
| 17:05 | <Philip`> | s/rule/rules/ |
| 17:07 | <AryehGregor> | Also, for compiled languages, where it's common to use warnings, everyone just uses their compiler's built-in warnings, so there's little to no competition on that score per se. |
| 17:08 | <AryehGregor> | (although I guess quality of warnings might be a contributing factor in the decision on which compiler to use, if there are multiple realistic choices for your platform) |
| 17:15 | <JonathanNeal> | Are there any other vendor stylesheets out there? Like, has someone compiled a stylesheet of how one browser does everything? |
| 17:16 | <AryehGregor> | Every browser has its own UA stylesheets. |
| 17:17 | <Philip`> | I thought MikeSmith collected some for his guide thingy |
| 17:17 | <JonathanNeal> | I would love to get ahold of those. I realized it might be a much more effective way to write mine. |
| 17:17 | <JonathanNeal> | I've been doing it through a process of laying out a pangram of every element in html5, then applying the styles from the html5 rendering guide. |
| 17:18 | <MikeSmith> | the h:tml doc uses the Webkit default UA stylesheet |
| 17:18 | <JonathanNeal> | Then applying additional styles in a vendor css file to catch whatever else was needed to normalize them. |
| 17:18 | <MikeSmith> | http://svn.webkit.org/repository/webkit/trunk/WebCore/css/html.css |
| 17:23 | <erlehmann> | the pecurialities are interesting. epiphany-webkit for example, does not have a default styling for <i> |
| 17:24 | <JonathanNeal> | Thanks MikeSmith, 0__qem sure is a strange value. |
| 17:26 | <MikeSmith> | JonathanNeal: I think that just gets interpreted as 0em |
| 17:27 | <MikeSmith> | I think for the build of the h:tml doc, I have it stripping out the __q part |
| 17:27 | <MikeSmith> | I don't remembering ever hearing what purpose the __q part serves |
| 17:28 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 17:29 | <MikeSmith> | http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/tools/css2xml |
| 17:29 | <MikeSmith> | (if you care to see all the ugliness) |
| 17:30 | <JonathanNeal> | I do care, I'm very interested in seeing how uas style and how people are using this info |
| 17:34 | <TabAtkins> | JonathanNeal: Poke around in your Firefox install to find it's stylesheet. I've modified mine for a few things. Relatively easy to get to. |
| 17:34 | <JonathanNeal> | Awesome! |
| 17:34 | <JonathanNeal> | Now just to get IE's |
| 17:38 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: is that Yngve speaking? |
| 17:46 | <annevk> | MikeSmith, I dropped out |
| 17:46 | <annevk> | MikeSmith, figured I should get some food |
| 17:48 | <AryehGregor> | http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/ "This page is in Irish. Would you like to translate it? [Translate] [Nope]" |
| 17:48 | <annevk> | I got bored with it too. All the high-level theoretical thought trains. How about starting with where contemporary implementations are? |
| 17:50 | <JonathanNeal> | Interesting how Firefox tightens up their css file (e.g. "margin: 1em 0") but then does "0px" and "margin: 0.5em auto 0.5em auto;" in other places. It's nice to know these stylesheets are written by humans. |
| 17:52 | <Philip`> | JonathanNeal: Or it's worrying to know these stylesheets were written by robots that can pass the Turing test |
| 17:53 | <JonathanNeal> | Philip`, true dat, I am C. |
| 17:54 | <JonathanNeal> | If we find IE's, my assumption is that it would pass with flying colors. |
| 17:55 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: Larry is mentioning use of the term "URL" now |
| 17:56 | <annevk> | oh, maybe I should dial back in |
| 18:00 | <Philip`> | Does IE actually use a default stylesheet that's a real CSS file, rather than something more ad-hoc and legacyish? |
| 18:04 | <MikeSmith> | I think even for Mozilla and Webkit, the default styling behavior (logic?) is not totally captured in their UA stylesheets |
| 18:04 | <AryehGregor> | Philip`, I would guess so for IE >= 8. |
| 18:05 | <AryehGregor> | But yeah, some things aren't specifiable in CSS. |
| 18:05 | <JonathanNeal> | AryehGregor, we could write one if they don't already have one. |
| 18:05 | <AryehGregor> | They also all use vendor-specific extensions in their UA stylesheets, I assume. |
| 18:05 | <AryehGregor> | For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, this is interesting: http://themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2010/03/22/ |
| 18:05 | <MikeSmith> | AryehGregor: some things are, but they don't specify them in the UA stylesheet for some reason |
| 18:06 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., neither Gecko and Webkit UA stylesheets set bold on the th element |
| 18:06 | <MikeSmith> | they do it in program code instead |
| 18:06 | <AryehGregor> | Really? Why? |
| 18:06 | <MikeSmith> | AryehGregor: dunno |
| 18:07 | <MikeSmith> | there may not be many (or any) more instances of that then the th case |
| 18:07 | <MikeSmith> | but I know of the th case, at least, so I suspect there might be others |
| 18:07 | <annevk> | how long does this meeting go on for? |
| 18:08 | <MikeSmith> | I think it was supposed to be 2.5 hours |
| 18:08 | <JonathanNeal> | I'm cleaning up the stylesheets and placing them @ http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html5-browser-stylesheets/ |
| 18:09 | <annevk> | MikeSmith, kk |
| 18:09 | <JonathanNeal> | I wasn't sure what the version was on that webkit stylesheet, it was from their trunk, so I was going to add the version numbers once I know. |
| 18:09 | <annevk> | now they're talking about vests vs t-shirts |
| 18:09 | <annevk> | clearly ninjas win |
| 18:10 | <MikeSmith> | JonathanNeal: note that those stylesheets get updated/changed somewhat regularly |
| 18:10 | <MikeSmith> | so if you make copies of them, you are going to need to track the upstream changes |
| 18:12 | <JonathanNeal> | MikeSmith, definitely the reason why I want to grab the versions. Yea, I can always tag it 56629 |
| 18:19 | <JonathanNeal> | Tagged them as firefox-v3.6.2.css and webkit-r56629.css |
| 18:29 | <erlehmann> | JonathanNeal, better tag it gecko-1.9.xyz |
| 18:29 | <erlehmann> | after all its the rendering engines that change this |
| 18:29 | <JonathanNeal> | how would i verify whcih gecko it was? |
| 18:30 | <erlehmann> | doesn't ff report this ? |
| 18:30 | <JonathanNeal> | btw, from what I understand MS IE saves their stylesheet in an xml file. |
| 18:30 | <erlehmann> | check the about dialog. |
| 18:31 | <JonathanNeal> | 1.9.2.2 for gecko erlehmann? |
| 18:31 | <erlehmann> | XML stylesheets, what a funny idea :D |
| 18:31 | <erlehmann> | JonathanNeal, dunno. but i have iceweasel 3.5.8, which has 1.9.1.6, so it seems plausible |
| 18:34 | <JonathanNeal> | I found IE6's stylesheet! |
| 18:36 | <Philip`> | Where? |
| 18:36 | <JonathanNeal> | Or I'm really dang close. |
| 18:36 | <JonathanNeal> | res://msxml.dll/defaultss.xsl |
| 18:38 | <Philip`> | That sounds like it's a stylesheet for XML files, not for HTML |
| 18:38 | <Philip`> | given that it's in msxml.dll |
| 18:42 | <JonathanNeal> | Yea, just need to figure out what the dll is for html |
| 18:42 | <JonathanNeal> | http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html5-browser-stylesheets/defaultss.xls.txt |
| 18:42 | <JonathanNeal> | that's the one for xml, at least. |
| 18:47 | <Philip`> | HTML is lots of DLLs |
| 18:47 | <Philip`> | like mshtml.dll |
| 18:51 | <JonathanNeal> | Yea ... it sure feels close though. |
| 18:54 | <JonathanNeal> | According to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa741312(VS.85).aspx it might be in mshtml.dll |
| 18:55 | <Philip`> | There are no strings in that file that look like CSS to me |
| 18:56 | <AryehGregor> | Maybe they're ROT13ed. |
| 18:56 | <AryehGregor> | Or base-64. |
| 18:56 | <jgraham> | Philip`: I'm pretty sure that most people that use jsLint turn of many of the more opinionated warnings |
| 18:56 | <JonathanNeal> | Maybe they're in the registry? |
| 18:56 | <jgraham> | and I don't think it's really comparable to HTML since javascript doesn't have any conformance criteria |
| 18:57 | <AryehGregor> | Some people want that for HTML too, apparently. Or at least are open to considering it. |
| 18:58 | <jgraham> | (I guess theoretically one might like a porgram that told you if you were going to hit any features that change behaviour in ES5 strict mode. But that probably isn't statically determinable) |
| 18:58 | <jgraham> | AryehGregor: Yes some people want it. That doesn't mean it's a good idea |
| 19:11 | <AryehGregor> | Do all browsers support oninput? |
| 19:12 | <AryehGregor> | Meh, never mind. |
| 19:12 | <AryehGregor> | Doesn't matter. |
| 19:14 | <JonathanNeal> | I found a hacky way to grab 'em all. |
| 19:47 | <annevk> | i cannot access google.com |
| 19:47 | <annevk> | weird |
| 19:51 | <Dashiva> | Can you access this? http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/03/schneier_bloggi.html |
| 19:52 | <annevk> | sure |
| 19:53 | <annevk> | or google.nl etc. |
| 19:53 | <annevk> | it's very weird, my mother called me this morning and she had exactly this problem |
| 19:54 | <annevk> | maybe restarting the browser will fix it... |
| 19:54 | <annevk> | yup... |
| 20:21 | <jgraham> | Cookies? |
| 20:22 | <annevk> | i accept cookies |
| 20:22 | <annevk> | visit my site for address details |
| 21:24 | <annevk> | hmm, I wonder if the way Chrome (does not) implement(s) form validation will cause us problems going forward |
| 21:24 | <annevk> | i.e. required="" is "supported" but does not actually prevent form submission unless some JavaScript is used |
| 21:25 | <annevk> | not cool |
| 21:27 | <Hixie> | annevk: um yeah that's very not cool |
| 21:27 | <Hixie> | annevk: can you file a bug pointing out the very likely intrerop implications of this? |
| 21:28 | <TabAtkins> | Damn, anyone know where the hell image-fit is specified? (In CSS) |
| 21:28 | <Philip`> | TabAtkins: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-page/#propdef-image-fit ? |
| 21:29 | <TabAtkins> | Danke, Philip`. |
| 21:29 | <Philip`> | Thank Google |
| 21:29 | <TabAtkins> | ...I should have thought of that. |
| 21:31 | <annevk> | Hixie, would this be a bug on WebKit or Chrome? |
| 21:31 | <Hixie> | webkit i guess |
| 21:36 | <annevk> | https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36677 |
| 21:36 | <Hixie> | thanks |
| 23:17 | <Traveler> | hi |
| 23:49 | <JonathanNeal> | I set up a script to capture IE8's default styles. |
| 23:49 | <JonathanNeal> | http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html5-browser-stylesheets/ie8.css this is what it returned me. |
| 23:56 | <erlehmann> | JonathanNeal, next step: use the script to automate the capturing job for all browsers ? maybe ab-using browsershots.org and AJAX ? |
| 23:56 | <TabAtkins> | JonathanNeal: Very cool. I like it. |
| 23:57 | <erlehmann> | font-family: Courier New; — i suppose thats monospace ? |
| 23:58 | <TabAtkins> | Yeah, likely. It's a monospace font, at least, and I guess it's JonathanNeal's default. |
| 23:58 | <erlehmann> | i wonder if the „zoom: 1;“ often seen is a IE hack :D |
| 23:58 | <TabAtkins> | It triggers hasLayout! |
| 23:59 | <JonathanNeal> | yes, it triggers hasLayout. |