| 00:00 | <MikeSmith> | Richard MacManus talking with David Recordon |
| 00:00 | <MikeSmith> | about Open Graph |
| 00:01 | <MikeSmith> | http://developers.facebook.com/docs/opengraph |
| 02:05 | <othermaciej> | hole moley, blogger.com allows embedding of arbitrary SWFs! |
| 02:05 | <othermaciej> | can someone look at this page and tell me if they see both Flash objects? http://subtlesweetness.blogspot.com/2010/07/blog-post.html |
| 02:15 | <MikeSmith> | othermaciej: I see both |
| 02:16 | <othermaciej> | I think maybe it's safe because they have a separate domain per user and comments on a separate domain |
| 02:17 | <Workshiva> | Remind me, any reason to avoid the flash 10.1 upgrade? |
| 02:17 | <Workshiva> | (+Dear lazy IRC) |
| 02:18 | <MikeSmith> | othermaciej: dinnet know they had comments on a separate domain |
| 02:19 | <MikeSmith> | Workshiva: you can't avoid it |
| 02:19 | <MikeSmith> | that's the beauty of it |
| 02:19 | <Workshiva> | Really? Because the box is telling me "don't install" and "remind me later" are valid options |
| 02:20 | <MikeSmith> | well yeah |
| 02:20 | <MikeSmith> | there is that |
| 02:21 | <MikeSmith> | but eventually you will relent |
| 02:21 | <Philip`> | Workshiva: Do you care about critical security vulnerabilities? |
| 02:21 | MikeSmith | puts on his marketing hat |
| 02:21 | <MikeSmith> | "critical" is such a harsh word |
| 02:22 | <MikeSmith> | also "vulnerabilities" |
| 02:22 | <MikeSmith> | those scare people |
| 02:22 | Philip` | notices that Firefox recently gave a very prominent startup notice saying to upgrade Flash |
| 02:22 | <MikeSmith> | so let's not use those terms |
| 02:22 | <Workshiva> | Philip`: Well, mostly I care about "will not hose my computer before I even start a browser" |
| 02:26 | <MikeSmith> | FYI http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/newstd2/ is wide open to anybody who cares to take the time to respond |
| 02:26 | <MikeSmith> | there's a category, "browser or other software developer" |
| 02:26 | <MikeSmith> | use that one if you are an actual web browser |
| 02:27 | <MikeSmith> | or I suppose, if you are a browser engine, that'd be OK to |
| 02:27 | <MikeSmith> | just make sure to indicate your version number |
| 03:41 | <MikeSmith> | fwiw, I added per-element "Microdata property value" subsections to my markup reference doc |
| 03:41 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/iframe.html#iframe-microdata |
| 03:41 | <MikeSmith> | not a big deal |
| 03:42 | <MikeSmith> | but nice to have at point-of-use, I think |
| 03:43 | <MikeSmith> | the section just describes what the defined means is for determining the Microdata property value for that element |
| 03:43 | <MikeSmith> | just based on info at http://dev.w3.org/html5/md/#values |
| 03:45 | <MikeSmith> | for most elements it just says "The text content of the element." |
| 03:45 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/table.html#table-microdata |
| 12:44 | karlcow | wonders if hsivonen issues about w3c licences for inclusion in open source software is recorded somewhere on W3C website? Bugzilla? |
| 13:33 | <Slaanesh> | Hey krijnh , how about those next and previous links at the bottom of each log page ;) |
| 14:41 | <krijnh> | Slaanesh: they will be there in version 5.0 :) |
| 14:48 | <annevk> | karlcow, it's recorded in archived email messages :) |
| 14:48 | <Philip`> | krijnh: What's the current version number? |
| 14:52 | <krijnh> | 3.2 |
| 14:55 | <Philip`> | Ah, 5.0 isn't too far off then, unless you're doing TeX-style convergence to a number that is less than 5.0 |
| 14:56 | <annevk> | counting down to π |
| 14:56 | <krijnh> | I'm still looking for a company that will fund me, so I can work full-time on the logs :) |
| 14:57 | <krijnh> | Already applied at Google, but their response was something like "Are you kidding? We don't fucking care about your stupid logs." |
| 14:57 | <krijnh> | So I'm now a bit depressed |
| 15:15 | <Philip`> | krijnh: Make it a subscription-only service |
| 15:15 | <Philip`> | Then you'll have plenty of money to handle all the feature requests |
| 15:17 | <Slaanesh> | krijnh: Make it open source, then complain about nobody wanting to help |
| 15:29 | <karlcow> | annevk: yes. I was wondering if there would be an easy pointer to a summary of the issue and the arguments already exposed. :) |
| 16:32 | <boblet> | so is there any significance in whether a microdata item is top-level or not? |
| 17:01 | boblet | wishes there was an http://h2vx.com/ equivalent for microdata |
| 17:13 | <Slaanesh> | boblet: I would assume the only difference is whether it shows up with document.getItems |
| 17:14 | <boblet> | Slaanesh: but nothing supports the API yet right? |
| 17:14 | <Slaanesh> | I don't know, but probably not |
| 17:15 | <boblet> | and even then shouldn’t all items show up? |
| 17:16 | <Slaanesh> | getItems explicitly says it only returns top-level items |
| 17:18 | <Philip`> | When I last looked, if I remember, top-level status affected RDF conversion too (it adds a triple from the document to each top-level item) |
| 17:19 | <boblet> | oh interesting. thank you both (non-programmer so these API things are a bit of a black box) |
| 17:20 | <Philip`> | s/remember/remember correctly/ |
| 17:20 | <Philip`> | (It was probably a year ago and it's probably changed and/or I've probably forgotten the details) |
| 17:23 | <boblet> | another microdata thing that is confusing me is <meta content="">. I know that current browsers pull <meta> into <head>, but last time I asked here the suggestion was to change to a <span> and hide via CSS |
| 17:24 | <boblet> | wouldn’t it be fine to just add an id then use itemref to refer to it? |
| 17:25 | <boblet> | again I expect there’s probably some API/implementation issue that meant whoever suggested the hidden span hack to me not suggesting it, but not sure |
| 17:37 | <Slaanesh> | boblet: I don't understand the problem at all. The browsers that move meta to head are also browsers that don't support microdata anyway |
| 17:37 | <Slaanesh> | And presumably meta in body will be fixed before or at the same time as microdata support being added in a given browser |
| 17:37 | <boblet> | Slaanesh: you could be using the microdata via an external JS library like metadatajs |
| 17:38 | <boblet> | although your point is valid for the microdata API |
| 17:38 | <Slaanesh> | Ah, didn't think of third party libraries |
| 17:39 | <boblet> | well, there’s only one ;) |
| 17:39 | <Slaanesh> | In that case, wouldn't using an id cause the creation of a subitem? |
| 17:39 | <Slaanesh> | The span solution keeps the structure the same |
| 17:42 | <boblet> | I don’t think there’s any requirement for itemref targets to be items. they can be just a property like <meta id="" itemprop="" content="" > |
| 17:44 | <boblet> | I’m really surprised that the API only returns top-level items. does that mean a tree or does that mean nested items are hidden? |
| 17:47 | <micheil> | Hixie: hmm.. I thought the ieft hybi mailing list would've been a really busy mailing list.. turns out it isn't much at the moment |
| 17:51 | <Slaanesh> | boblet: Nested items are properties of the items they are nested in |
| 17:52 | <boblet> | Slaanesh: aah, yeah that’s what I thought. thanks |
| 17:52 | <Slaanesh> | It's like a tree, except I think we established at some point it's actually a DEAG |
| 17:52 | <Slaanesh> | *DAG |
| 17:52 | <boblet> | ? |
| 17:53 | <boblet> | hitting the wall. thanks for your help Slaanesh |
| 17:54 | <Slaanesh> | A DAG is sort of like a tree, but the branches can merge back together |
| 17:54 | <Slaanesh> | Because multiple items can refer to the same subitem |
| 17:55 | <boblet> | Slaanesh: nice explanation, thanks |
| 17:55 | <boblet> | nn all |
| 18:03 | <micheil> | KrocCamen: long time, no see. |
| 18:03 | <micheil> | KrocCamen: goodmorrow fine sir. |
| 18:07 | <KrocCamen> | Goodmorrow :) |
| 18:08 | <KrocCamen> | Erm, what is it now—miksago, that’s it. Thought I recognised the name. |
| 19:47 | <Hixie> | micheil: the hybi list is busy each time i e-mail it (with people telling me i'm making bad decisions), and quiets down if i don't post for a while |
| 19:47 | <micheil> | ah, fair enough |
| 19:47 | <micheil> | well, at any rate, I'll be listening in for anything if there's need for an end developer to weigh in |
| 19:52 | <Hixie> | cool |