| 16:27 | <krijnh> | Have no fear, the (smoke producing) Pentium II IRC logging service is here! \o/ |
| 16:28 | <gsnedders> | http://google-web-toolkit.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/user/src/com/google/gwt/core/client/impl/StackTraceCreator.java — oh wow. |
| 16:28 | <gsnedders> | That's just scary. |
| 16:29 | <annevk> | krijnh is talking about http://plixi.com/p/61729229 I believe o_O |
| 16:29 | <krijnh> | Yeah |
| 16:29 | <gsnedders> | Tries to read Error.message in Opera to get the stack, which was (well, still is) where the stack was put in Futhark with a non-default preference option. |
| 16:29 | <gsnedders> | Won't work at all in Carakan… |
| 16:29 | <MikeSmith> | damn, krijnh is back |
| 16:30 | <MikeSmith> | now I have to be more careful about what I say |
| 16:30 | <jgraham> | david_carlisle: You are the resident expert on all things X, right :) |
| 16:30 | <david_carlisle> | but you hate us |
| 16:30 | <annevk> | so much hate |
| 16:31 | <krijnh> | I thought we only hate blind people? |
| 16:31 | <annevk> | whenever something bad happens, I always think, oh well, there's also XML |
| 16:31 | <jgraham> | If I have some XPath with a default namespace (XPath 2 has this right?) can I mix explicit prefixes and the default in the same expression? |
| 16:31 | <david_carlisle> | yes |
| 16:32 | <annevk> | krijnh, hmm yeah, can't spread this hate thing thin |
| 16:32 | <david_carlisle> | the default-xpath-namespace just changes the interpretation of unprefixed names, has no effect on prefixed ones |
| 16:32 | <annevk> | dilemma |
| 16:32 | <jgraham> | So if the XHTML ns is the default then //html:div/span should find all span children of div elements both in the XHTMLNS |
| 16:32 | <jgraham> | david_carlisle: Perfect, thanks |
| 16:33 | <david_carlisle> | xpath today |
| 16:33 | <david_carlisle> | xslt tomorrow |
| 16:33 | <karlcow> | MikeSmith: as usual, you are █████████████████████ it's ok. |
| 16:33 | <david_carlisle> | whole world using xml by the weekend |
| 16:33 | <jgraham> | david_carlisle: Actually I quite like XPath |
| 16:33 | <jgraham> | It hasn't made me want to use XSLT yet theough :p |
| 16:33 | <karlcow> | damn, krijnh sanitizer |
| 16:33 | <jgraham> | *though |
| 16:35 | <david_carlisle> | you'd probably prefer xquery anyway (which is basically a cut down xslt, without the xml syntax) |
| 16:41 | <annevk> | Safari accepts a different set of encodings compared to Chrome |
| 16:42 | <annevk> | Chrome is way more restricted |
| 16:55 | <annevk> | yay |
| 16:56 | <annevk> | something else I figured out |
| 16:56 | <annevk> | IE treats aliases of iso-8859-1 as windows-1252, but not iso-8859-1 itself, unless it is loaded directly |
| 16:57 | <annevk> | also, Firefox and IE are leading encoding proliferation |
| 16:57 | <annevk> | Firefox foremost I guess |
| 16:58 | <annevk> | I wonder if they are interested in fixing that |
| 16:59 | Philip` | notes that reducing encoding support can be a security risk |
| 16:59 | jgraham | wishes for a way to tell emacs to check in the current buffer to a vcs after every save (but not to do it for all buffers) |
| 17:00 | <jgraham> | hober: In case you were wondering, that was your queue to say "I've got some code that does just that" :) |
| 17:01 | <jgraham> | er "cue" |
| 17:02 | <jgraham> | silly language |
| 17:03 | <annevk> | Philip`, example? |
| 17:03 | <karlcow> | I wonder if someone wrote a nested tables counter for Web pages… |
| 17:09 | <Philip`> | annevk: Any not-sufficiently-ASCII-like encoding (EBCDIC, ISO-2022-*, etc) - if a server emits it but a browser doesn't support it and uses a default decoder instead, you can get XSS |
| 17:12 | <annevk> | ah yes |
| 17:12 | <annevk> | I am only testing 7- and 8-bit so far |
| 17:12 | <annevk> | nobody does 7-bit |
| 17:30 | <oojacoboo> | latest browser stats on my site are surprisingly good |
| 17:31 | <oojacoboo> | IE only 24% with IE6 and IE7 only getting 5% |
| 17:31 | <oojacoboo> | 75% webkit/gecko |
| 17:31 | <oojacoboo> | for an industry and still thinks they live in the 50s |
| 17:38 | <karlcow> | http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6067.txt |
| 17:43 | <hober> | hmm. http://wiki.whatwg.org/index.php?title=CanvasContexts&diff=5608&oldid=prev |
| 17:45 | <hober> | jgraham: get in the habit of hitting C-x v v after you C-x C-s :) |
| 17:46 | <jgraham> | hober: Not really good enough since I don't want to be promted for a commit message |
| 17:46 | <jgraham> | And since the whole deal is that I am likely to forget |
| 17:47 | <jgraham> | (the use case is reducing buggy sites where you remove code and see if the bug still happens. It would be great to have every intermediate step atomatically saved so if you over-reduce you can back up a few steps and try again) |
| 17:48 | <jgraham> | *automatically |
| 18:01 | <hober> | you could do something like (add-hook 'after-save-hook (lambda () (when (something-p) (vc-checkin (buffer-file-name) nil "Commit message")))) |
| 18:01 | <hober> | untested of course |
| 18:01 | <hober> | and the impl of `something-p' is left to the reader :) |
| 18:04 | <hober> | ahh, an explanation of the weird wiki edit I noted earlier: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Dec/0075.html |
| 19:19 | <zcorpan> | "“Accept” and “Accept-Language” are fairly important" - http://calendar.perfplanet.com/2010/bloated-request-response-headers/ |
| 19:22 | <zcorpan> | hmm, maybe we should kill the Referer header for same-origin requests? |
| 19:23 | <zcorpan> | or will that Break The Web? |
| 19:25 | <zcorpan> | sadly we won't be able to remove the User-Agent header |
| 19:25 | <zcorpan> | (at least we haven't added it for websockets!) |
| 19:25 | <AryehGregor> | Just use SPDY, then most of this stuff is only sent once, and is compressed to boot. |
| 19:26 | <zcorpan> | i haven't read up on SPDY yet |
| 19:27 | <Peter-> | zcorpan: many anti-hotlink scripts rely on that |
| 19:27 | <Peter-> | although they usually accept no referer too |
| 19:27 | <zcorpan> | Peter-: if they accept no referer then it should be fine |
| 19:40 | <Hixie> | so... i'm confused |
| 19:40 | <Hixie> | is elliot's draft normative or not? |
| 19:41 | <hober> | he says it's normative, but he's removed all normative language from statements that *don't* just say what's already said in another spec |
| 19:48 | <Philip`> | Launchpad seems to fail if you disable Referer |
| 19:48 | <Philip`> | so you'll break that part of the web, at least |
| 19:49 | <zcorpan> | Philip`: ok |
| 19:49 | <Hixie> | hober: that sounds like a huge recipe for confusion |
| 19:53 | <hober> | Hixie: indeed |
| 19:53 | <hober> | it would have made more sense for him to do the opposite: drop RFC2119 terminology when restating reqs from html&xml specs |
| 19:53 | <hober> | and only use RFC2119 terms for *additional* restrictions |
| 19:56 | <zcorpan> | what would make sense is if it didn't have additional restrictions, just non-normatively describe the intersection of the restrictions in the text/html and xhtml5 restrictions |
| 19:57 | <hober> | I'm assuming that the spec is intended to define a useful/interesting subset of that intersection |
| 19:57 | <zcorpan> | still, i don't see the usefullness of it, so i don't care |
| 19:57 | <hober> | that's where the additional restrictions would come in |
| 19:57 | <hober> | but yeah, if it's just intended to describe the actual intersection, no additional normative reqs are necessary |
| 19:58 | <zcorpan> | i don't know what the intention is. maybe the intention is just to waste people's time |
| 20:21 | <zcorpan> | twitter says @johnfoliot is "similar to me" |
| 20:27 | <karlcow> | zcorpan: the moustache maybe |
| 20:28 | <zcorpan> | i don't have one! |
| 22:06 | <annevk> | hmm, updating html5-diff |
| 22:06 | <annevk> | I guess I can do that |
| 22:06 | <annevk> | even though technically I'm on vacation |
| 22:19 | <Hixie> | so http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete.html#playing-the-media-resource says that play() loads the resource "if necessary" |
| 22:19 | <Hixie> | which some people have interpreted as meaning "if the src='' attribute has changed" |
| 22:20 | <Hixie> | but i really just meant if the element is in the empty state |
| 22:20 | <Hixie> | anyone have a better way of phrasing this that is both accurate and helpful? |
| 22:34 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: "loading the media resource if it hasn't already started loading, and beginning playback." |
| 22:35 | <Hixie> | what's "the media resource"? |
| 22:35 | <zcorpan> | see the spec! :) |
| 22:35 | <Hixie> | well there's two here, right |
| 22:35 | <Hixie> | silvia interpreted as meaning the one that was specified in src="" |
| 22:35 | <Hixie> | even if the one previously specified had started playing already |
| 22:37 | <zcorpan> | i don't follow. if you change src="", it gets loaded regardless of play() |
| 22:37 | <Hixie> | <source src>, sorry |
| 22:37 | <bfrog> | is websocket going to be fixed and out in another year or so do you guys think? |
| 22:37 | <bfrog> | or is it going to be a never ending draft |
| 22:37 | <annevk> | I wish I'd know |
| 22:37 | <Hixie> | bfrog: dunno, ianfette in #chromium might know |
| 22:37 | <Hixie> | or ask the hybi chairs what their timetable is |
| 22:37 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: prepend "current" |
| 22:38 | <zcorpan> | hmm maybe that'll confuse things |
| 22:38 | <annevk> | WebSockets went out of WHATWG and does not appear to be going anywhere :/ |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: yeah i think that someone who misinterpreted "as necessary" would misinterpret "current media resource" in the same way |
| 22:39 | <bfrog> | whats the alternative to websocket anyways, there doesn't seem to be anything particularly good that can replace it easily |
| 22:39 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: maybe the text about loading isn't helpful |
| 22:40 | <annevk> | bfrog, there's none |
| 22:40 | <annevk> | bfrog, apart from prolly using Flash or something crazy like that |
| 22:40 | <bfrog> | right |
| 22:41 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: yeah, maybe i should just remove that |
| 23:05 | <hober> | This seems like as good a place as any to mention that I'm looking for work. If you're looking to hire a full-stack web developer with some HTML5 familiarity, toss me a line. :) |
| 23:15 | <zcorpan> | hober: don't fancy browser qa? |
| 23:17 | <hober> | zcorpan: browser qa sounds like the sort of thing that would drive somebody to write their own HTML spec |
| 23:17 | <zcorpan> | eventually, yeah, maybe |
| 23:22 | <Hixie> | it has happened, can't be denied |
| 23:23 | <Dashiva> | But who will test the testers |
| 23:24 | <krijnh> | -_- |