| 00:26 | <paul_irish> | annevk: incredible post. please do that again. |
| 00:27 | <AryehGregor> | annevk++ |
| 00:31 | <webben> | annevk: Very useful even for those of us who make some headway against the deluge of standards mail. Thank you :) |
| 00:31 | <nessy> | thanks for mentioning me ;-) |
| 00:32 | <nessy> | it's great to see it all together! |
| 00:33 | <nessy> | or which of the annevk posts of recent are we talking about… (blog… email … too much goodness to count!) |
| 00:47 | <Hixie> | ok, i finished http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Change_Proposal_for_ISSUE-129 |
| 00:47 | <Hixie> | looking for someone to review it |
| 00:48 | <Hixie> | before i submit it |
| 00:48 | <Hixie> | deadline is tuesday. |
| 00:56 | <AryehGregor> | Okay, so when you're extending to something that's not in the same tree, it just replaces the selection's start and end with the target point . . . but sets the direction of the selection to backwards? Seriously? |
| 00:56 | <AryehGregor> | Why backwards? |
| 00:56 | <AryehGregor> | (in Firefox) |
| 00:56 | <AryehGregor> | (I can't figure out what WebKit is doing here) |
| 01:01 | <AryehGregor> | (the entire API is broken and insane, and WebKit's implementation is even more broken and insane) |
| 01:05 | <Hixie> | sounds like the dnd api |
| 01:10 | <AryehGregor> | It seems like in WebKit, after selection.addRange(range), it is not necessarily true that range == selection.getRangeAt(0). This means that among other things, I can't figure out how to determine the direction of a selection . . . |
| 01:10 | <AryehGregor> | Actually, I can't figure out how to modify selections reliably at all in WebKit. |
| 01:13 | <AryehGregor> | Okay, hmm, maybe it just doesn't like ranges that aren't in the document . . . ? |
| 01:19 | <AryehGregor> | Well, I guess WebKit just gets to fail a whole bunch of extra tests. |
| 01:41 | <AryehGregor> | Yay, I finally found some Gecko behavior that made so little sense that I just ignored it and specced what made sense. |
| 01:41 | <AryehGregor> | (Doesn't seem to have appreciable likelihood of compat issues.) |
| 01:42 | <AryehGregor> | (Although heaven only knows for sure . . .) |
| 01:42 | <AryehGregor> | Okay, I'm off to bed. |
| 02:12 | MikeSmith | reads webben mail |
| 02:13 | <MikeSmith> | well written |
| 02:13 | <MikeSmith> | indeed great if AI Squared are in fact going to get more involved |
| 02:15 | <MikeSmith> | continues to be pretty ridiculous that Freedom Scientific doesn't |
| 02:28 | <MikeSmith> | http://rumpetroll.com/ |
| 02:32 | <bga_|away> | http://www.linux.fm/ |
| 02:35 | <MikeSmith> | wow |
| 02:37 | <bga_> | webkit.fm! |
| 04:14 | karlcow | is discovering http://mir.aculo.us/dom-monster/ |
| 08:15 | <a-ja> | anyone: when's Tab normally around? |
| 08:30 | <Hixie> | a-ja: weekdays, UTC-8 |
| 08:31 | <a-ja> | tks Hixie, kinda what i figured. |
| 08:32 | <a-ja> | not whatwg-related. css3-images thing |
| 08:56 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/01/HashInURI-20110115#ViolateW3CSpecs claims that sites are using processing of fragment identifiers that violates RFC 2854 |
| 08:56 | <MikeSmith> | but I can't see that RFC 2854 actually defines any processing behavior at all |
| 08:57 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: what's the deadline on CCPs for ISSUE-130? the issue-status page doesn't say |
| 09:01 | <asmodai> | hah, awesome http://w3fools.com/ |
| 09:03 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: no deadline listed at http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-130 |
| 09:03 | MikeSmith | checks archive to see if previous mail gave one |
| 09:04 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: February 12th |
| 09:04 | <Hixie> | issue-status seems way out of date |
| 09:04 | <MikeSmith> | it seems |
| 09:04 | <Hixie> | k, thanks |
| 09:04 | <MikeSmith> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jan/0117.html |
| 09:11 | <MikeSmith> | man, there are exactly two paragraphs about fragment IDs in RFC 2854 |
| 09:11 | <MikeSmith> | 96 words |
| 09:13 | <hsivonen> | soo. If I have a <video> element in Konqueror that support <video> but not the format of the file I'm using |
| 09:13 | <hsivonen> | and I call .play() |
| 09:13 | <hsivonen> | Konqueror doesn't fire an error event on the <video> |
| 09:13 | <hsivonen> | does anyone happen to know if it fires something else? |
| 09:14 | <hsivonen> | or do I need to work with readystates and timeouts? |
| 09:52 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: you're using <video src=""> or <video><source src="">? |
| 09:53 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: src |
| 09:53 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: <video src=""> that is |
| 09:53 | <annevk> | (thanks for all the Internet karma everyone -- will write again) |
| 09:53 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: should I expect <source> to work better? I was guessing it offered more opportunity for bugs. |
| 09:54 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: ok. the reason i ask is that for <source>, error is fired on the source element, not the video element |
| 09:54 | <zcorpan> | per spec, no idea about in konq |
| 09:55 | <hsivonen> | Aside: the Konq "controls" UI sucks |
| 09:56 | <Hixie> | ok i sent out the CCP for -129 |
| 09:59 | <annevk> | that's a long change proposal :) |
| 09:59 | <Hixie> | oh hey the deadline for -120 is coming up. I guess I'd better write that up. |
| 09:59 | <Hixie> | that's the one about removing xmlns="" and co from rdfa |
| 10:00 | <annevk> | do you think it's worthwhile changing RDFa? |
| 10:01 | <annevk> | to me it sort of falls in the same category as people wishing to use XForms or XHTML 2.0 |
| 10:02 | <Hixie> | i just want namespaces out of text/html |
| 10:02 | <annevk> | yeah, admittedly that is kind of sucky |
| 10:03 | <annevk> | and people using RDFa as an argument that it is possible, while really it is not (although they are quite persistent about not grasping what is actually going on) |
| 10:03 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 10:03 | <Hixie> | (and yeah) |
| 10:07 | <hsivonen> | annevk: xmlns in RDFa is an error committed into REC after the W3C welcomed HTML5 into the W3C |
| 10:07 | <hsivonen> | annevk: XForms went to REC before that time |
| 10:07 | <Hixie> | "welcomed" |
| 10:07 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: I'm trying to be polite here |
| 10:07 | <Hixie> | ah, my bad :-) |
| 10:08 | <jgraham> | Where is createContextualFragment specified these days? In one of the things that AryehGregor is working on? |
| 10:09 | <Hixie> | right. bed time now. i'll work on tilting at windmills on tuesday. |
| 10:09 | <Hixie> | nn |
| 10:10 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: in one of the specs Ms2ger is working on |
| 10:12 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Thanks. Life was so much easier in the past when the answer to "who's specifying this" was either "No one" or "Hixie" |
| 10:14 | <jgraham> | Now it is "No one: or "Hixie" or "One of Hixie's minions". Which is just confusing. |
| 10:16 | <MikeSmith> | we need to get some greater diversity into this work |
| 10:17 | <MikeSmith> | maybe I can recruit some of the yakuza guys who I chat with now and then at my sento |
| 10:17 | <MikeSmith> | those dudes know how to get stuff done |
| 10:23 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: Maybe they could work on HyBi :) |
| 10:23 | <jgraham> | s/HyBi/Websockets/ |
| 10:24 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: yes |
| 10:25 | <MikeSmith> | now we're on to something |
| 10:25 | <MikeSmith> | we should brainstorm more often, make magic like this |
| 10:25 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: I think you had it right the first time |
| 10:26 | <MikeSmith> | Websockets is fine, basically |
| 10:26 | <MikeSmith> | the problem lies elsewhere… |
| 10:27 | <MikeSmith> | if the hybi mailing list had a theme song, I wonder what it would be |
| 10:28 | <MikeSmith> | for example, that whatwg theme song is "Teenage Dream" by T. Rex |
| 10:29 | <MikeSmith> | especially the chorus ("What ever happened to the teenage dream?") |
| 10:30 | <webr3> | MikeSmith, something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydVp-2B8qlw |
| 10:30 | <jgraham> | Somehow the first song that comes to mind is "Heavn Knows I'm Miserable Now" |
| 10:30 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 10:30 | <webr3> | see 0:49 |
| 10:33 | <MikeSmith> | they shouldn't mock the tuba |
| 10:33 | <MikeSmith> | the tube is pope ratzinger's favorite instrument |
| 10:34 | <MikeSmith> | he says its that instrument which is most like the voice of god |
| 10:36 | <MikeSmith> | the pope is also really fond of the Amen Break |
| 10:36 | <webr3> | hixie, hsivonen, annevk - can you quickly sum up the problem with namespaces (under whatever guise, not just the xmlns variant) for me? |
| 10:36 | <MikeSmith> | but not for the reason you would think |
| 10:39 | <annevk> | webr3, did you review http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Namespace_confusion ? |
| 10:40 | <annevk> | I updated the posting rules: http://blog.whatwg.org/submit-article |
| 10:40 | <webr3> | annevk, cheers - not in a while, I'll re-read just now |
| 10:41 | <webr3> | quick q, is xmlns support in, or out, of "HTML 5" |
| 10:41 | <annevk> | Basically one of the nine administrators has to set up an account for someone if they want to post an article on the WHATWG blog |
| 10:41 | <annevk> | webr3, there's no xmlns support in the XML sense in the HTML syntax |
| 10:42 | <jgraham> | webr3: Well you can use XMLNS in XHTML5 |
| 10:42 | <jgraham> | But there is no namespace support in HTML5 in general |
| 10:42 | <webr3> | so, if xmlns was only support when RDFa is used in X-whatever, would that help? |
| 10:43 | <annevk> | xmlns is in a different namespace in HTML |
| 10:43 | <annevk> | so it is not the same |
| 10:43 | <annevk> | it's not in a namespace, to be pedentaic |
| 10:43 | <annevk> | pedantic |
| 10:54 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: I think, however that the final naswer must be "let Down" |
| 10:54 | <jgraham> | s/let/Let/ |
| 10:55 | <MikeSmith> | the pope? |
| 10:56 | <MikeSmith> | yeah, what a chump that clown is |
| 11:02 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: No, before that :) The Pope could hardly be a disappointment. That would imply some level of expectation |
| 11:02 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 11:02 | <MikeSmith> | but he out-clowns the previous guy |
| 11:02 | <MikeSmith> | and that's an achievement |
| 11:03 | <annevk> | Lachy, can you take a look at http://blog.whatwg.org/wp-admin/upload.php ? |
| 11:03 | <hsivonen> | Aargh! Windows Genuine Disadvantage! My properly purchased copy of Windows 7 Professional suddenly tells me it's not genuine upon booting. Booted fine earlier today. |
| 11:03 | <erlehmann> | MikeSmith, editors and commitee chairs should try to do the same thing! |
| 11:04 | <annevk> | Lachy, it seems all media resources are incorrectly linked |
| 11:04 | <MikeSmith> | they're seriously gonna make that joker an official saint… kind of like giving the Nobel Peace Prize to President Predator Drone |
| 11:05 | <hsivonen> | ok. then I clicked Get Genuine and it changed its mind and decided it was Genuine already. |
| 11:11 | <Philip`> | Sainthood requires miracles to have been performed that are scientifically inexplicable, but it seems they only require one or two instances - I think they ought to have a higher standard and require statistically significant evidence of miraculous healing among people who pray to the would-be saint compared to a control group of atheists, to rule out coincidence |
| 11:13 | <erlehmann> | MikeSmith, little known is the fact that it was the “Nobel War is Peace Price” ;) |
| 11:13 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 11:13 | <erlehmann> | :D |
| 11:20 | <jgraham> | Philip`: If the church was to embrace the scientific method to that extent, would it not lead them to Occam's razor, which advises against adopting hypotheses such as "everything is controlled by an all-powerful, yet unverifiable, being" |
| 11:24 | <MikeSmith> | I feel sorry for the saints that nobody prays too |
| 11:25 | <MikeSmith> | those ones must get depressed sometimes |
| 11:26 | <pluma> | Stop antropomorphicizing fictional characters and dead people |
| 11:26 | <MikeSmith> | no point of going to all the trouble to live and perform miracles and then die and in spite of all your efforts nobody ask for your help |
| 11:27 | <pluma> | I think saints need post-mortem miracles. |
| 11:27 | <pluma> | Not during their lifetime. |
| 11:33 | <MikeSmith> | sometimes demons do miracles in the name of a particular saint so that people will pray to that saint, but in reality the demon has set of a man-in-the-middle exploit and when you pray to that saint, all the traffic is redirected to that demon instead, and he gets all the linkage and google rank and ad juice instead |
| 11:40 | <annevk> | MikeSmith, hahaha |
| 11:42 | <Lachy> | annevk, ok, I'll take a look at it later. Not sure what's going on, but it's probably a bug in WordPress |
| 11:42 | <Lachy> | hmm, unless the files were lost somehow |
| 11:45 | <annevk> | it seems the links first go to http and then a local directory |
| 11:45 | <annevk> | also |
| 11:45 | <annevk> | for me ssh blog.whatwg.org broke |
| 11:46 | <Lachy> | ssh works for me. what username are you using? |
| 11:46 | <annevk> | annevk |
| 11:47 | <annevk> | I get this |
| 11:47 | <annevk> | The RSA host key for blog.whatwg.org has changed, |
| 11:47 | <annevk> | and the key for the corresponding IP address 69.163.222.251 |
| 11:47 | <annevk> | is unknown. This could either mean that |
| 11:47 | <annevk> | DNS SPOOFING is happening or the IP address for the host |
| 11:47 | <annevk> | and its host key have changed at the same time. |
| 11:48 | <Lachy> | no, the blog is under the my username lhunt and the wiki is under whatwikiuser. |
| 11:49 | <Lachy> | your key is in the authorized_keys file, so lhunt⊙wo should work for you |
| 11:49 | <annevk> | interesting |
| 11:49 | <annevk> | thanks |
| 11:50 | <Lachy> | I checked, those images are missing from the wp-content/uploads/ directory. |
| 11:50 | <Lachy> | they must have somehow been missed during an upgrade and overwritten |
| 11:51 | <Lachy> | not sure how though, cause I always copied wp-content/* whenever I did that |
| 12:00 | <MikeSmith> | oh, I thought "Growl" was what the native notification mechanism in Mac OSX is called |
| 12:01 | <MikeSmith> | but I guess it's not |
| 12:01 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: there's no native mechanism, is there? |
| 12:01 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 12:01 | <annevk> | yeah, they don't do notifications |
| 12:01 | <hsivonen> | but everyone who wants one installs Growl |
| 12:01 | <jgraham> | But lots of apps support growl |
| 12:02 | <jgraham> | So it is kind of a de-facto standard |
| 12:02 | <MikeSmith> | well, what is is that apps use to pop up notification windows that oveher appsrlay ot |
| 12:02 | <MikeSmith> | I didn't think I had Growl installed |
| 12:02 | <MikeSmith> | maybe I do |
| 12:02 | MikeSmith | checks |
| 12:02 | <jgraham> | If by "standard" you mean "used by most of twenty-something mac users in the bay area" |
| 12:02 | <jgraham> | "twenty-something" in age, not in number |
| 12:02 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 12:03 | <MikeSmith> | well, I got Growl.. so I guess that's what the apps I have that do it are using |
| 12:03 | <MikeSmith> | and I guess I wasn't wrong after all |
| 12:03 | <MikeSmith> | yay me |
| 12:15 | <annevk> | almost makes sense MikeSmith :) |
| 12:15 | <annevk> | your tweet |
| 12:15 | <MikeSmith> | I'm trying |
| 12:16 | <MikeSmith> | "overtollige" is a great word |
| 12:17 | <MikeSmith> | anyway, sometimes it's more fun to halfway make sense than it is to fully make sense |
| 12:20 | <annevk> | hahaha |
| 12:20 | <annevk> | "dicht genoeg" |
| 12:21 | <annevk> | I guess this is what the Dutch deserve for literally translating Dutch sentences into English :) |
| 12:21 | <annevk> | brilliant |
| 12:27 | <hsivonen> | In case anyone wishes to contribute, http://webm.html5.org/ needs a better test clip (shorter, like one second, and maybe showing the text WebM fading in) |
| 12:28 | <hsivonen> | (I put whatever .webm file I happened to have there as a placeholder) |
| 12:28 | <hsivonen> | also, in case anyone wishes to contribute, it needs some fancy CSS |
| 12:35 | <hsivonen> | (I didn't put any logos there, because I don't want to deal with copyright and trademark issues) |
| 12:38 | <hsivonen> | Also, I'd be interested in how to best forward-compatibly code around Konqueror's brokenness |
| 12:40 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: nice |
| 12:41 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: thanks |
| 12:42 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: which events do you get in konq? |
| 12:42 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: I don't know |
| 12:42 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: not the ones I listen for |
| 12:43 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: you could listen for all events the spec mentions and see what you get |
| 12:43 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: I guess I'll have to try that :-( |
| 12:49 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/780 |
| 12:49 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: very nice! thanks |
| 12:50 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: no events at all on Ubuntu |
| 12:51 | <karlcow> | MikeSmith: your answer about the fragment id is at http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html#h-12.2.4 |
| 12:51 | <karlcow> | it is in HTML 4.01 |
| 12:51 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: no events on Fedora, either |
| 12:51 | <MikeSmith> | karlcow: nope it's not |
| 12:51 | <karlcow> | >A reference to an unavailable or unidentifiable resource is an error. Although user agents may vary in how they handle such an error, |
| 12:51 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 12:52 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: i don't get anything logged in safari either, which is weird |
| 12:52 | <karlcow> | hmmm indeed talking about resources |
| 12:52 | <karlcow> | but not fragment ids |
| 12:52 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 12:52 | <karlcow> | maybe the misunderstanding comes from here |
| 12:53 | <MikeSmith> | the misunderstanding comes from the fact that it was never really specified, despite what that TAG draft seems to claim |
| 12:56 | <karlcow> | yep yep. There are a few mistakes to fix in the draft. I identified typos too. |
| 12:58 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: oh now i got some events in safari.. but no error event |
| 13:05 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.openpr.com/news/158592/Marco-Reversible-Pumps-Boat-Horns-Introduced-to-US-Market-via-HTML5-Portal-by-Miami-Web-Designer.html |
| 13:33 | <annevk> | hmm |
| 13:33 | <annevk> | so now if I update an old blog post to fix an error a tweet gets posted |
| 13:33 | <annevk> | I thought that would only happen when publishing... |
| 13:33 | <annevk> | bah |
| 13:35 | <annevk> | teh people from twitters are not offended so far fortunately |
| 13:36 | Philip` | assumes anyone who uses Twitter much is already adept at ignoring repeated information |
| 15:10 | <annevk> | so now I have some "old" HTC Android phone as well |
| 15:10 | <annevk> | iPhone broke down teehee |
| 15:12 | <annevk> | not as nice, but reasonable |
| 15:18 | <annevk> | also, having contacts and calendar in the cloud is gold |
| 15:18 | <annevk> | no computer needed for setup |
| 15:20 | <annevk> | oh, and the phone can update itself |
| 15:20 | <hsivonen> | annevk: what does "old" in quotes mean here? |
| 15:21 | <annevk> | it means it was EUR 200 and not 500 |
| 15:22 | <annevk> | it's a white phone and only says "htc" and "WITH HTC SENSE" on the back |
| 15:22 | annevk | goes to look on the box |
| 15:23 | <annevk> | HTC Wildfire |
| 15:23 | <hsivonen> | that's not so old. it's just otherwise designed for a less expensive price point |
| 15:24 | <hsivonen> | annevk: it has an older CPU ISA |
| 15:24 | <hsivonen> | ARM v6 as opposed to v7 |
| 15:24 | <hsivonen> | does Opera run on v6? |
| 15:24 | <hsivonen> | Firefox wants v7 |
| 15:24 | <annevk> | I have no idea |
| 15:24 | <Rik`> | hsivonen: I think Opera runs on V6 |
| 15:25 | <hsivonen> | Rik`: do they only ship a v6 binary or do they ship two binaries so that v7 users get faster code? |
| 15:25 | <Rik`> | I have no idea |
| 15:26 | <hsivonen> | when my SIM broke and I thought my phone broke, I considered buying a HTC Wildfire, but then I learned Firefox doesn't run on it |
| 15:26 | <annevk> | I'm a bit displeased with t-mobile for not just setting me up with a temporary phone, but on the other I'm glad I can still use the same SIM while it is in repairs |
| 15:26 | <slartsa> | super.onActivityResult(requestCode, |
| 15:26 | <slartsa> | argh |
| 15:26 | <annevk> | things could be worse |
| 15:26 | <hsivonen> | and then I learned that my SIM was broken so I didn't have to buy a new phone |
| 15:26 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Yes, I think it does (Opera) |
| 15:27 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: ok |
| 15:27 | <annevk> | hsivonen, ah |
| 15:27 | <annevk> | hsivonen, yeah, they tested a new SIM first, but it is something with the Phone app on the iPhone apparently |
| 15:27 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: does any flavor of Opera Mobile support WebM yet? |
| 15:27 | <annevk> | HTC power adapter is also less elegant |
| 15:28 | <hsivonen> | annevk: I'm looking forward to your findings on how well a touch UI works with a small screen |
| 15:28 | <annevk> | so far it's not too bad |
| 15:29 | <annevk> | it gives some kind of feedback by trilling which is really quite nice |
| 15:30 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/productspecs/ |
| 15:30 | <daedb> | hah, you've got the same phone as I do now (except mine isn't white) :p |
| 15:30 | <hsivonen> | I want a small phone that runs Firefox and an e-Ink tablet that runs Firefox. apparently neither device exists. |
| 15:30 | <annevk> | Galaxy Tab is quite nice |
| 15:31 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: thanks. so "no" |
| 15:31 | <annevk> | they had one in the store and since the waiting times were ridiculous I could play around a bit |
| 15:31 | <hsivonen> | annevk: Galaxy Tab sucks in the landscape mode |
| 15:31 | <hsivonen> | also, I expect e-Ink to beat LCD for reading |
| 15:32 | <annevk> | if you just get very high DPI, will e-Ink still be good? |
| 15:32 | <annevk> | because e-Ink is fricking slow |
| 15:32 | <annevk> | at least last I looked at it; no way you would get YouTube |
| 15:33 | <hsivonen> | as I understand it, the main differentiating factor (apart from slowness and lack of color) is non-glare and no backlight |
| 15:33 | <hsivonen> | my tablet needs don't include YouTube |
| 15:34 | <hsivonen> | I'm inclined to believe the claims that reading from an LCD right before trying to sleep disrupts sleep |
| 15:34 | <hsivonen> | in a way that paper and e-Ink don't |
| 15:34 | <annevk> | if I ever had a tablet I would expect to read reddit on it and all what reddit entails |
| 15:37 | hsivonen | wonders what Opera Mobile 10 (general) runs on |
| 15:37 | <MikeSmith> | Opera can run on ARM 6 |
| 15:37 | <MikeSmith> | Opera can be made to run on anything |
| 15:38 | <MikeSmith> | it could run on whatever CPU they have in sewing machines |
| 15:38 | <MikeSmith> | the original Nintendo DS had a 66 MHz CPU |
| 15:39 | <MikeSmith> | and Opera ran on that |
| 15:39 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: oh, I don't doubt that Opera can be compiled for v6. I was curious if a v6-compatible build ships. |
| 15:39 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 15:39 | <hsivonen> | (I have Opera Mobile 10.1 beta on v6 on N800) |
| 15:39 | <Philip`> | Could it run on the Apollo landing computer? |
| 15:40 | <annevk> | I guess the other thing that is kind of nice is the size of this phone. It's not as huge as all the others |
| 15:41 | <annevk> | Philip`, just have to convince NASA that all bugs are features |
| 15:42 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Did you update the gecko innerHTML serilization algorithm? |
| 15:43 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: no |
| 15:43 | <jgraham> | hmm |
| 15:43 | hsivonen | now spots the (general) is 10 not 10.1 |
| 15:43 | <hsivonen> | that makes more sense |
| 15:44 | <jgraham> | Seems like neither Chrome nor Fx add a line break before the text in a <pre> (or similar) element in innerHTML |
| 15:45 | <hsivonen> | :-( |
| 15:45 | <jgraham> | (Or Opera 11) |
| 15:45 | <jgraham> | Makes me nervous about changing it… |
| 15:48 | <annevk> | I wonder what all the fuss is about with regards to not being able to update Android phones... Is that a US thing? |
| 15:50 | <daedb> | annevk: It depends on phone manufacturer... some of them are good, some are bad at offering updates. |
| 15:51 | <hsivonen> | annevk: It's not just a U.S. thing |
| 15:51 | <hsivonen> | annevk: basically, Google isn't acting like a proper OS vendor but is acting like a whitelabel technology provider as far as updates go |
| 15:57 | <hsivonen> | that Google doesn't insist on being able to push OTA Android updates to end users is a bit odd when the Chrome side hypes how they intend to update Chrome OS |
| 16:03 | <annevk> | the way they do Chrome is awesome |
| 16:23 | <MikeSmith> | the JS Date object needs a few more methods |
| 16:23 | <MikeSmith> | 42 methods just doesn't seem like enough |
| 16:32 | <jgraham> | <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN" ""> is not supposed to be treated as having the system id missing, is it? |
| 16:36 | <jwalden> | do gradients have an intrinsic aspect ratio? http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#gradients mentions ratios only in one narrow case, in a way that suggests this wasn't really a deliberate definition |
| 17:19 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Indeed. |
| 17:20 | <jgraham> | The system id thing? |
| 17:20 | <gsnedders> | Yeah. |
| 17:20 | <jgraham> | Who wants webkit bugs? |
| 17:20 | <gsnedders> | For the parser? abarth|zZz, IIRC. |
| 17:20 | <gsnedders> | Or at least he was one of the people involved in it. |
| 17:20 | <jgraham> | abarth|zZz, eric_carlson: You have a bug with not setting the right compatMode where the SYSTEM ID is the empty string |
| 17:21 | <eric_carlson> | jgraham: ??? |
| 17:21 | jgraham | loves TCs where the failure mode is "screen is blank" |
| 17:21 | <jgraham> | eric_carlson: Am I confusing you with someone else? |
| 17:22 | <jgraham> | Oh, look at that, I am |
| 17:22 | <jgraham> | Sorry |
| 17:22 | <eric_carlson> | jgraham: np! |
| 17:22 | <jgraham> | I wanted Eric Seidel :) |
| 17:23 | <eric_carlson> | jgraham: indeed, another Eric that works on WebKit |
| 17:25 | <jgraham> | There should be a limit of one person per unique first name per browser project. A bit like the way the actors guilds require unique names |
| 17:26 | <Philip`> | Does added punctuation count as a distinct name? |
| 17:26 | <eric_carlson> | fine with me as long as eseidel is willing to change his name :-P |
| 17:49 | <AryehGregor> | I'm completely in favor of that rule. |
| 17:49 | <AryehGregor> | Actually, I'd like to require it freenode-wide. |
| 17:49 | <AryehGregor> | I originally wanted "aryeh" as my nick, but someone else took it. :( |
| 17:50 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: Well, there were multiple people called James at Opera recently :P |
| 17:52 | <jgraham> | gsnedders: Exactly. jamesl had to change his name or leave. He left. |
| 17:56 | <annevk> | same happened with my namesake |
| 17:58 | <gsnedders> | At least there's only one Geoffrey ^^ |
| 18:11 | <karlcow> | http://al3x.net/2011/01/15/user-hostile-platforms.html |
| 18:39 | <Aryeh|use_email> | Public service announcement: I'll be in Israel for about a week, so I might not see anything said here for a long time if ever, even if you mention my name. Try e-mail instead if you want to contact me. (I might drop in as AryehGregor from my laptop.) |
| 18:40 | <annevk> | have fun |
| 20:46 | <a-ja> | TabAtkins: ping (re css3-images / webkit implementation. suggest somewhere else to discuss?) |
| 21:24 | <annevk> | one thing someone pointed out to me |
| 21:25 | <annevk> | this screen sucks donkey balls compared to the iPhone |
| 21:26 | <annevk> | steering away from the politics, eh, Peter`? ;) |
| 21:26 | <Peter`> | Yeah |
| 21:27 | <annevk> | Peter`, not sure if you saw it the other day, but the quotation marks around your headings, what is the reason for that? |
| 21:27 | <Peter`> | I designed my blog |
| 21:27 | <Peter`> | that should basically answer your question |
| 21:27 | <krijnh> | Oeh, I love that design! |
| 21:27 | <krijnh> | Can I download the template somewhere? |
| 21:28 | <annevk> | Peter`, haha |
| 21:28 | <annevk> | okay |
| 21:28 | <krijnh> | I heard HTML5 makes downloading templates a lot easier |
| 21:28 | <Peter`> | I'll remove them |
| 21:28 | <Peter`> | thar done |
| 21:28 | <annevk> | krijnh, HTML5 also saves kittens |
| 21:28 | <krijnh> | :o |
| 21:29 | <annevk> | every time someone uses HTML5 |
| 21:29 | <annevk> | God saves a kitten |
| 21:29 | <pesla> | And he kills a little puppy. |
| 21:29 | <krijnh> | Luckily every time IE crashes, he kills another one |
| 21:29 | <annevk> | pesla, ssh |
| 21:30 | <pesla> | annevk: I saw it happen! |
| 21:30 | <krijnh> | Ow, wait, sorry, God in #whatwg context is of course Hixie.. He doesn't kill kittens nor puppies |
| 21:31 | <Hixie> | good grief |
| 21:31 | <krijnh> | He talks! |
| 21:31 | <pesla> | He kills non-Hixie-conforming specs |
| 21:32 | <krijnh> | So Hixie, when do you think this HTML5 thing you came up with is going to fly? |
| 21:52 | <karlcow> | http://www.core77.com/blog/technology/using_kinect_mit_media_lab_pulls_off_gesture-based_web_browsing_with_more_on_the_horizon_18276.asp |
| 21:55 | <annevk> | that URL looks like a scam |
| 21:56 | <annevk> | underscores, random number, weird words, core77.com?! |
| 21:56 | <annevk> | ah I see, "design magazine" |
| 21:57 | <annevk> | fun video though |
| 22:05 | <thiessenp> | HTML5 vs HTML4 - are DOM mutations identical? What I mean is any new behaviour described from DHTML insertions etc. in the HTML5 spec? |
| 22:05 | <annevk> | browsers only implement HTML5 |
| 22:06 | <annevk> | and with regards to mutation events, I think there's still a vague plan to change them |
| 22:06 | <annevk> | though whether that'll work out is unclear |
| 22:07 | <thiessenp> | any idea where I could read up on this? |
| 22:08 | <annevk> | archives of public-webapps |
| 22:08 | <annevk> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ around November I think |
| 22:08 | <annevk> | and maybe before |
| 22:09 | <thiessenp> | great thanks (will start reading) but off hand the DOM is currently treated the same way in HTML5 as in HTML4 element.innerHTML, parent.appendChild etc.? |
| 22:11 | <krijnh> | Ja |
| 22:11 | <krijnh> | Er is maar een HTML |
| 22:40 | <erlehmann> | is there an easier way to change my subscription mail address to the WHATWG list than stopping to subscribe and resubscribing? |
| 22:40 | <erlehmann> | I cannot into mailing lists. |
| 22:41 | <Hixie> | i believe the mailman software keys off your e-mail address so you can't change it |
| 22:41 | <Hixie> | you have to unsub, resub |
| 22:41 | <Hixie> | but that's pretty easy to do |
| 22:42 | <erlehmann> | thx. brb |
| 22:58 | <erlehmann> | Hixie, is there some processing delay for both unsubcriptions and subscriptions? |
| 23:00 | <erlehmann> | forget it. |
| 23:00 | <erlehmann> | works :) |
| 23:21 | <annevk> | Hixie, pong |