| 00:10 | <Tabatkins> | Hixie: Regarding your suggestion about hanging the source of the template off of a string property, do you want the actual original text, or is a reserialization sufficient? |
| 01:12 | <Hixie> | Tabatkins: can you elaborate on your question? |
| 01:40 | <volkmar> | Hixie: ping |
| 02:47 | <Hixie_> | volkmar: here briefly |
| 02:48 | <volkmar> | Hixie: about that autocompletetype |
| 02:48 | <volkmar> | could you wait until the end of the month for my feedback? |
| 02:48 | <volkmar> | I will not have the time this week |
| 02:48 | <volkmar> | maybe not next week |
| 02:48 | <volkmar> | but after, I will be on vacation so time I should find ;) |
| 02:49 | <Hixie> | can you give me a synopsis of your feedback? |
| 02:49 | <Hixie> | like, a one line "elevator pitch"? |
| 02:52 | <volkmar> | Hixie: basically, my feeling is that we should be able to use cleverly @type instead of @autocompletetype |
| 02:52 | <volkmar> | a few autocompletetype values are already @type values |
| 02:52 | <volkmar> | and we could extend @type instead of having that new thing |
| 02:52 | <Hixie> | i thought type="" was for the data type and autocompletetype="" was for the field name? |
| 02:53 | <Hixie> | like, type would be something like "integer" or "string", and autocomplete type something like "x" and "y", or "name" and "description" |
| 02:56 | <Hixie> | dglazkov: in xbl, there were different events with event objects retargetting too (there had to be, since we sometimes crossed security boundaries) |
| 02:58 | <zewt> | i'd sooner not have @type expanded for things that use the same widget; I wish type=password had just been <input type=text datatype=password> or something like that, since it's less special casing when I just want to hook "all text-input-box <input>s" |
| 02:59 | <zewt> | having type=name or something like that means every case where I want to do that, I have to add "|| e.target.type == 'name'", and so on (if I'm following right, which I may not be since I'm preoccupied) |
| 02:59 | <Hixie> | zewt: search and text are more similar than text and password, at least text and password are slightly different controls. search is barely more than the same control with a stylistic change. |
| 03:02 | <zewt> | yeah, often a completely script-invisible one too (like changing onscreen keyboard layouts) |
| 03:08 | <zewt> | sigh, another TR link hits the archives, lurking in wait for somebody to trip up |
| 04:08 | <volkmar> | Hixie: IIRC, autocompletetype wasn't what you describe but I should have another look |
| 04:09 | <Hixie> | the thing i'm talking about is for the autofill feature; credit card numbers, addresses, etc |
| 04:09 | <volkmar> | yes |
| 04:10 | <Hixie> | well e.g. for "credit card expiry date", you'd want type=month, but autocompletetype="credit card expiry date"; but for "anniversary" you'd want type=month but autocompletetype="wedding day" or some such |
| 04:10 | <volkmar> | Hixie: fwiw, the example of the official blog post is something like "<input type=”text” name=”field1” x-autocompletetype=”email” />" |
| 04:10 | <Hixie> | "official"? |
| 04:10 | <Hixie> | i dunno about any blog post :-) |
| 04:10 | <volkmar> | from google blog post |
| 04:11 | <Hixie> | ah |
| 04:11 | <volkmar> | but i'm not sure about thta autocompletetype="credit card expiry date" |
| 04:11 | <volkmar> | i thought the idea was to have a defined list |
| 04:11 | <Hixie> | i don't know what the value would actually be |
| 04:11 | <volkmar> | http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Autocompletetype |
| 04:12 | <volkmar> | oh |
| 04:13 | <volkmar> | i actually replied to the whatwg thread |
| 04:14 | <Hixie> | cc-exp, right |
| 04:14 | <volkmar> | Hixie: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2012Jan/0193.html |
| 04:14 | <Hixie> | note 4 pretty much summarises what i was trying to say above |
| 04:15 | <Hixie> | i don't understand how it would work |
| 04:15 | <Hixie> | type=tel just says "this is a kind of phone number" |
| 04:16 | <Hixie> | it doesn't say whether it's a home phone, work phone, fax number, voicemail number, ... |
| 04:17 | <volkmar> | yes, indeed |
| 04:18 | <volkmar> | for those information we might want to use stuff like contacts api |
| 04:19 | <Hixie> | the advantage of the proposed solution is that it paves a very well-travelled cowpath |
| 04:19 | <volkmar> | also, do we have any idea of web dev willingness to use that attribute? |
| 04:20 | <Hixie> | chrome guys tell me they have some uptake, but i don't know of any first-hand |
| 04:22 | <volkmar> | I think <input type='address'> and <input type='contact'> could solve quite a lot of what they do but the chance to see that happening soon are null |
| 04:22 | <volkmar> | however, I don't feel that this feature is very urgent |
| 04:23 | <Hixie> | i'm currently specifically going through features that vendors don't think are urgent except for one vendor, this is just the one (of many chrome asked for) that chrome is getting :-) |
| 04:24 | <Hixie> | mozilla is getting inputmode |
| 04:25 | <volkmar> | inputmode use cases are quite clear |
| 04:25 | <Hixie> | so are autofill use cases :-) |
| 04:25 | <Hixie> | i mean, this is stuff browsers have done since the dawn of time |
| 04:25 | <volkmar> | there might be other ways to solve this but I'm sure web devs want a feature like that |
| 04:27 | <volkmar> | Hixie: sure but browsers are already kind of solving the problem |
| 04:27 | <volkmar> | seems like the main use case of that proposal is for website selling stuff |
| 04:27 | <Hixie> | i'm not sure what you're arguing for or against |
| 04:27 | <Hixie> | but i encourage you to post on the thread |
| 04:28 | <volkmar> | my first reply has been ignored |
| 04:28 | <volkmar> | i can write another one |
| 04:28 | <volkmar> | but not before 10 days |
| 04:28 | <Hixie> | i won't ignore your previous mail, i'm sure it's still on my pile |
| 04:28 | <Hixie> | i don't think it makes sense though :-) |
| 04:30 | <volkmar> | that would be a good reason to ignore it actually |
| 04:30 | <Hixie> | "ignore" would mean that i don't even bother reading it or considering it |
| 04:30 | <volkmar> | actually, I wasn't speaking about you ignoring it |
| 04:31 | <volkmar> | but the person who sent the proposal |
| 04:31 | <volkmar> | but maybe he/she didn't reply because it was just non-sense |
| 08:06 | <annevk> | Hixie: do you think it's better to add an entry for data URLs and XMLHttpRequest with origins to your origin table or should I add an equivalent entry to XMLHttpRequest? |
| 08:09 | <Hixie> | dunno right now. send mail or file bug. probably best to have it all in one place though (and we sohuld remove the duplicate table from the origin spec) |
| 08:10 | <annevk> | that prolly means removing that spec from the IETF as updating RFCs is hard |
| 08:11 | <annevk> | I tried filing errata against it and they just wontfixed it without even taking it up in the WG... |
| 08:25 | <annevk> | also holy batman, 67 bugmails |
| 08:26 | <djdingo14> | Will HTTP 2.0 come out tomorrow with support in all browsers and support directly attaching your bank account to some kind of global ID which you can use to transfer and receive any amount of money anonymously for $0.01 per transaction regardless of the fee instantly without any hassle which will open up fantastic new abilities to finally monetize good content without relying on awkward scams such as PayPal? |
| 08:26 | <djdingo14> | Because that would be some news that would actually get me excited, for the first time in about a decade. |
| 08:31 | <annevk> | go outside, life a little ;) |
| 08:31 | <annevk> | live* |
| 08:36 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: you around? |
| 08:36 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 08:36 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: we had the idea to make a new product, named WHATWG or WHATCG |
| 08:37 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: it could be "Web platform (other)" renamed |
| 08:37 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: and then move Fullscreen/Encoding/HTML there |
| 08:38 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: the HTML that is currently "other Hixie drafts (editor: Ian Hickson)" |
| 08:38 | <MikeSmith> | sounds fine to me |
| 08:39 | <MikeSmith> | I can just change the name of the "Web Platform (other)" one |
| 08:39 | <djdingo14> | annevk: I am outside quite often. What the hell's your point? |
| 08:40 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: what should be put for the description? "Deliverables of the WHATCG"? |
| 08:40 | <annevk> | djdingo14: don't try to get excitement from things you don't influence |
| 08:40 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: WHATWG standards? |
| 08:41 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: or WHATWG specifications |
| 08:44 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: ok |
| 08:44 | <MikeSmith> | I made the component name WHATCG |
| 08:45 | <MikeSmith> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/describecomponents.cgi?product=WHATCG |
| 08:46 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: hmm Fullscreen is also under WebAppsWG? |
| 08:46 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 08:48 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: is it easy to move a component? |
| 08:49 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: otherwise just keep it under WebApps and remove the one under WHATCG |
| 08:50 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: OK I'll just remove the one under WHATCG for now, since there are no bugs there anyway |
| 08:57 | <annevk> | okay |
| 08:57 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: if you can, coordinate with Hixie when to move "other Hixie drafts (editor: Ian Hickson)" over as "HTML" so he can update his scripts afterwards |
| 08:58 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: yeah will do |
| 08:58 | <MikeSmith> | have to wait til tomorrow though |
| 08:59 | <annevk> | there's no rush |
| 09:26 | <hsivonen> | argh. I made a mistake in my poll answer |
| 09:27 | <hsivonen> | has the ability to revise been removed or is this the poll-systems bogus cache control again? |
| 09:29 | <hsivonen> | it's the cacheability |
| 09:30 | <hsivonen> | and when I read my comment again, it seems I already said what I meant |
| 09:32 | <annevk> | still caring about the HTML WG? |
| 09:50 | <hsivonen> | annevk: yeah. it turns out that forming an informed opinion for responding to a poll is always a time sink |
| 09:50 | <hsivonen> | I tend to regret paying attention to the polls |
| 09:51 | <annevk> | I stopped caring after the last meeting and got chaals to remove me from the group |
| 09:51 | <annevk> | Seems Hixie is pretty much out now too |
| 10:27 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: about the validator not handling double quotes in charset param, is it OK with you if i check in the change described at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20120717#l-783 ? |
| 10:27 | <MikeSmith> | ah whoops |
| 10:28 | <MikeSmith> | need to make the quotes optional of course |
| 10:34 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: Pattern CHARSET = Pattern.compile("^\\s*charset\\s*=\\s*\"?(\\S+)\"?\\s*$"); |
| 10:38 | <MikeSmith> | damn that ain't going to work |
| 10:40 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: did you intentionally not enforce the string having both start and end quote or neither? |
| 10:41 | <MikeSmith> | no not intentionally |
| 10:41 | <MikeSmith> | could deal with it by using two patterns |
| 10:41 | <MikeSmith> | one for quoted charset param and one for unquoted |
| 10:41 | <MikeSmith> | and check for the quoted case first |
| 10:42 | <MikeSmith> | does that sound reasonable? |
| 10:43 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: isn't it possible to bake both into one pattern? |
| 10:43 | <hsivonen> | might be slightly unpleasant with numbering of the captures, but should work otherwise |
| 10:44 | <hsivonen> | do we have a spec for parsing this stuff in non-compliant cases, yet? |
| 10:44 | <MikeSmith> | none that I know of |
| 10:44 | <hsivonen> | i.e. do we really want to insist on both quotes or no quotes? |
| 10:45 | <hsivonen> | anyway, baking both cases into one pattern should be marginally more performant than having two patterns |
| 10:45 | <MikeSmith> | yeah I had another question about that, which is, those spaces around the "=" are not conforming as far as RFC 2616 says |
| 10:45 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 10:45 | <MikeSmith> | so but how do I have a regex that says \S+ but not \" ? |
| 10:46 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: [^\"\s]+ IIRC |
| 10:47 | <hsivonen> | if \s inside [...] works |
| 10:47 | <MikeSmith> | yeah I think it does |
| 10:55 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: spaces are conforming |
| 10:55 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: RFC 2616 has a notion of "implicit whitespace" |
| 10:55 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: it's fucked up |
| 10:55 | <MikeSmith> | crazy train |
| 10:56 | <MikeSmith> | magic whitespace |
| 10:56 | <annevk> | yeah, between all tokens unless noted otherwise |
| 10:56 | <annevk> | was too hard to write their crazy BNF otherwise |
| 11:01 | <MikeSmith> | BNF is a really great way to obscure clarity |
| 11:02 | karlcow | notes that BNF is Bibliothèque Nationale de France… and that there is indeed some truth into that statement :p |
| 11:08 | <Ms2ger> | Like the CSSWG-BNF, then |
| 11:09 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: does https://gist.github.com/3135601 look sane? |
| 11:09 | <hsivonen> | what's "operation convergence"? |
| 11:10 | <MikeSmith> | string to make the bugs identifiable so people can filter bugmail |
| 11:10 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: yes, except the parentheses around the quoted variant should be non-capturing |
| 11:10 | <MikeSmith> | because of the mailbomb we sent |
| 11:10 | <Ms2ger> | hsivonen, Hixie was requested to stop updating the HTMLWG spec, so he's duplicating the bugs to get work done on HTML |
| 11:10 | <hsivonen> | i.e. the parentheses inside the quotes need to be capturing but the ones around don't |
| 11:10 | <hsivonen> | Ms2ger: I see |
| 11:11 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: ah yeah |
| 11:12 | <hsivonen> | oh and the unquoted variant should probably use [^\"\\s]+ as well |
| 11:12 | <hsivonen> | otherwise it will capture lone quotes |
| 11:13 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 11:13 | MikeSmith | updates it |
| 11:13 | <hsivonen> | thanks |
| 11:15 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: updated patch at https://gist.github.com/3135601 |
| 11:17 | <hsivonen> | MikeSmith: r+ |
| 11:17 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 11:34 | <annevk> | validator.nu moved to github? |
| 11:35 | <MikeSmith> | no there's just a mirror there |
| 14:26 | <zewt> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16790 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17988 ... what the hell? |
| 14:26 | <Ms2ger> | zewt, the former is to be fixed by the hypothetical HTML5 editor, the latter is actually going to be fixed by Hixie |
| 14:27 | <zewt> | uh |
| 14:27 | <zewt> | it's nothing but facking up the bug tracker, heh |
| 14:27 | <Ms2ger> | Thank the chairs for that :) |
| 14:30 | <zewt> | also the bug isn't CC'd on any lists now? |
| 14:33 | <zewt> | also all kinds of metadata wasn't copied over (blocks, priority) |
| 14:34 | <zewt> | okay whatever i'm going to work to do *my* job now :) |
| 14:42 | <jarek> | what was the reason for allowing units inside SVG documents? |
| 14:42 | <jarek> | I mean something like: |
| 14:42 | <jarek> | <rect x="0.5cm" y="0.5cm" width="2cm" height="1cm"/> |
| 14:43 | <jarek> | it really doesn't make sense considering the fact that any of the ancestor elements could have transform applied |
| 14:46 | <cheron> | Is the CORS standard not part of the whatwg HTML specification? |
| 14:53 | <hsivonen> | cheron: it's a separate spec |
| 14:56 | <cheron> | hsivonen: yes, from W3C, but i can't find it on WHATWG. Does that mean there is none? |
| 14:58 | <Ms2ger> | Indeed |
| 15:02 | <cheron> | ty |
| 15:05 | <MikeSmith> | zewt: doing what to the bug tracker? |
| 15:09 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: we should call the new product "WHATWG", not "WHATCG", imho |
| 15:10 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: that carries a higher risk of somebody kneejerk flaming about it |
| 15:10 | <Hixie> | the cg's shortname is "whatwg" |
| 15:11 | <Hixie> | i'm happy to take any heat from flames, redirect them to me :-) it just seems needlessly confusing to people filing bugs |
| 15:12 | <MikeSmith> | OK, changed the product name to "WHATWG (flame Hixie instead of MikeSmith)" |
| 15:12 | <Hixie> | hah |
| 15:12 | <MikeSmith> | :) |
| 15:12 | <MikeSmith> | OK, it's just plain WHATWG now |
| 15:13 | <annevk> | okay, I will update the one character in Encoding |
| 15:14 | <annevk> | maybe I should checkout quirks mode and fix it for simon too |
| 15:19 | <annevk> | done |
| 15:29 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: thanks |
| 15:31 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: btw I have multiple IMEs for Japanese input installed in my Android mobile |
| 15:31 | <MikeSmith> | will try to make time to upload some screenshots |
| 15:35 | <Hixie> | sweet |
| 15:39 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: do you have access to logs for https://www.w3.org? |
| 15:40 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: web-server logs you mean? |
| 15:40 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 15:40 | <MikeSmith> | nope |
| 15:40 | <Hixie> | i can't work out for the life of me what some of these errors are |
| 15:40 | <MikeSmith> | at least I don't think I do |
| 15:41 | <MikeSmith> | it's several machines I guess you know |
| 15:41 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 15:41 | <MikeSmith> | but I don't have shell access on any of those |
| 15:41 | <MikeSmith> | I can ask somebody who does |
| 15:42 | <Hixie> | nah, sok |
| 15:46 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: ok, can we try to turn off the list bugmail again for a bit? |
| 15:49 | <MikeSmith> | yup |
| 15:49 | <MikeSmith> | gimme a minute |
| 15:51 | <MikeSmith> | ah man I still had it disabled it seems |
| 15:51 | <MikeSmith> | forgotted to re-enable it |
| 15:51 | <Hixie> | hah ok, np |
| 15:51 | <MikeSmith> | I blame it on too much breakfast beer |
| 15:54 | <MikeSmith> | 8 years of fun so far to reach harmonic convergence |
| 15:55 | <MikeSmith> | or closing on 9 years now I guess |
| 15:56 | MikeSmith | puts Whatever Happened to the Teenage Dream on the turntable |
| 16:00 | <Hixie> | ok. all htmlwg bugs are now cloned to whatwg bugs. now trying again on the reverse operation. |
| 16:05 | <annevk> | apart from Opera no browser (maybe Internet Explorer?) seems to terminate authority on ; http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/url/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#authority-terminating-character |
| 16:05 | <annevk> | I wonder why that was there |
| 16:06 | <MikeSmith> | wha |
| 16:06 | <MikeSmith> | what is "terminate authority"? |
| 16:07 | <MikeSmith> | would be fun to work a "... with extreme prejudice in there" |
| 16:07 | <Hixie> | i've gotten "prejudice" into the specs i edit a few times :-) |
| 16:08 | <MikeSmith> | sweet |
| 16:08 | <MikeSmith> | let's have more of that please |
| 16:08 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: so btw I might be in Amsterdam in September and asked to do 3.5 hours of presentation on Web platform |
| 16:08 | <MikeSmith> | if you could help me out with presenting that would be be appreciated |
| 16:09 | <MikeSmith> | and/or anybody else you'd recommend |
| 16:09 | <MikeSmith> | I will definitely be elsewhere in Europe in September for other things |
| 16:11 | <annevk> | I'm around |
| 16:11 | <annevk> | sounds like fun |
| 16:15 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: I volunteered to visit some EU W3C offices for 10 days or so but it appears to be morphing into I'll end up spending the entire foreseeable future there once I arrive |
| 16:15 | <MikeSmith> | which is OK because it's not like I have anything else productive to do with my time |
| 16:16 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 16:16 | <MikeSmith> | "An authority terminating character is either a slash character, U+003F ("?"), U+0023 ("#"), or U+003B (";")." |
| 16:16 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: we'll make it fun ;) |
| 16:17 | <MikeSmith> | we always do :-) |
| 16:17 | <MikeSmith> | so why ";" ? |
| 16:17 | <annevk> | uhuh |
| 16:30 | <Ms2ger> | <glenn> can someone file a bug against cssom to record this? |
| 16:30 | <Ms2ger> | Yeah, filing bugs on your own spec is soooo hard... |
| 16:35 | <Hixie> | oh crap |
| 16:35 | <Hixie> | silly silent errors |
| 16:36 | Hixie | cloned a bunch of bugs without noticing the old bugs weren't getting annotated with the new bug id |
| 16:36 | <Hixie> | causing a bunch of dupes |
| 16:37 | <Hixie> | oh not so many dupes it seems |
| 16:37 | <Hixie> | that's lucky |
| 16:39 | <Hixie> | ok through some lucky fluke, no dupes |
| 16:39 | <Hixie> | still, need to add the annotations now |
| 16:42 | <Hixie> | oh, this problem is tractable. only five bugs. |
| 16:42 | <Hixie> | ok. |
| 16:43 | <Ms2ger> | Now, whether 'tis nobler to write a script to fix those five bugs or to fix them manually |
| 16:44 | <Hixie> | script |
| 16:50 | <Hixie> | wtf |
| 16:50 | <Hixie> | bugzilla is refusing my tokens |
| 16:50 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: hitting rate limiting maybe? |
| 16:50 | <Hixie> | that seems to usually be 502s and 504s |
| 16:51 | <Hixie> | this is a 200, saying i should hit back because the token is bad |
| 16:51 | Ms2ger | wonders if the CSSWG is going to manage not to rename flexbox again |
| 16:52 | <Ms2ger> | I guess it's about 50/50 |
| 16:52 | <MikeSmith> | nothing the CSSWG does will ever surprise me |
| 16:52 | <MikeSmith> | they have already achieved |
| 16:53 | <MikeSmith> | anyway I thought flexbox was dead in the water in the face of grid |
| 16:54 | <MikeSmith> | not that I know jack about either |
| 16:56 | <MikeSmith> | hmm "Unknowing Information Practices" |
| 16:56 | <MikeSmith> | interesting phrase |
| 17:06 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 17:06 | <Ms2ger> | Good day |
| 17:07 | <Ms2ger> | Turns out the CSSWG, as usual, can't decide what to do and what reason to invent for the decision |
| 17:09 | <Hixie> | oh dear lord |
| 17:09 | <Hixie> | <-- idiot |
| 17:10 | <Ms2ger> | News at 11 :) |
| 17:58 | <Hixie> | almost done |
| 18:00 | <Hixie> | i wonder why there was a bug bump yesterday around the time i was doing the cloning |
| 18:00 | <MikeSmith> | ? |
| 18:01 | <MikeSmith> | coincidence? |
| 18:01 | <Hixie> | i hope so |
| 18:01 | <Hixie> | in theory this bug cloning thing shouldn't have affected the number of bugs i have assigned to me, because each bug cloned was originally assigned to me, and as each is cloned, one of the two ends up not assigned to me |
| 18:01 | <Hixie> | but there's a bump on http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html?period=1 |
| 18:01 | <MikeSmith> | ah |
| 18:01 | <Hixie> | not a big one |
| 18:02 | <MikeSmith> | that's got to be some artifact for sure |
| 18:02 | <Hixie> | went from 522 to 531 between 07:00 and 08:00 |
| 18:02 | <Hixie> | which is exactly when we were doing it yesterday |
| 18:02 | <Hixie> | i think |
| 18:02 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 18:04 | <MikeSmith> | consequence of doing violence against bugzilla and bugmail |
| 18:04 | <Hixie> | i don't really see how it could go up rather than down :-) |
| 18:04 | <Hixie> | but i guess that's at least not the destructive direction... |
| 18:04 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 18:04 | <Hixie> | ok looks like it's done |
| 18:05 | <Hixie> | let me kust rerun the scripts to catch any stragglers |
| 18:05 | <MikeSmith> | sweet |
| 18:05 | <Hixie> | no stragglers |
| 18:05 | <Hixie> | sweet! |
| 18:05 | <Hixie> | ok cool |
| 18:05 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: can you also change the default assignee for the htmlwg bugs to dave.null rather than me? |
| 18:05 | <MikeSmith> | I'll re-enable bugmail for the lists |
| 18:05 | <Hixie> | cool, thanks |
| 18:06 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: yeah |
| 18:06 | <MikeSmith> | btw the secret plan is that I become the new HTML WG editor |
| 18:07 | <MikeSmith> | so that I get paid double |
| 18:07 | <Hixie> | i doubt the money is worth it :-) |
| 18:07 | <MikeSmith> | hah |
| 18:07 | <MikeSmith> | I'm waiting to see how that goes |
| 18:08 | <MikeSmith> | in unrelated news btw anybody raise your hand if you think basing an operating system is the DOM is a great idea |
| 18:08 | <Ms2ger> | volkmar, he's waiting for you |
| 18:10 | <MikeSmith> | "I hope that b2g is as grand a success as ChromsOS and WebOS have been so far" |
| 18:11 | <Ms2ger> | Ouch |
| 18:11 | <Hixie> | i can't quite get the times and numbers to line up but there does seem to have been a bunch of bugs filed in the last day |
| 18:11 | <Hixie> | so i'm going to assume timezones account for most of this |
| 18:12 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: weird I don't think so many bugs were filed in the last day |
| 18:12 | <Hixie> | there were at least nine "Everything!!! Someone else in into my computer and controls it" bugs filed |
| 18:12 | <MikeSmith> | and I get Cc'ed on all of them |
| 18:13 | <MikeSmith> | ah yeah |
| 18:13 | <MikeSmith> | I dunno i have so much bugmail even normally that it's hard for me to tell I guess |
| 18:13 | <Hixie> | which, if the times on the three "you njust saved" bugs were not so close as to make the maths bogus, would account for the 522 to 531 increase |
| 18:14 | <MikeSmith> | geez |
| 18:14 | <MikeSmith> | that's nothing man |
| 18:14 | <Hixie> | the bug filed 12 seconds before called "i m searching action" also belies my explanation |
| 18:14 | <Hixie> | but anyway |
| 18:18 | <Hixie> | ok |
| 18:18 | <Hixie> | now i need to change the default QA on these bugs and reassign them all to the WHATWG product |
| 18:18 | <MikeSmith> | OK |
| 18:18 | <MikeSmith> | can do that |
| 18:19 | <Hixie> | oh i can do it, it's easy |
| 18:19 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 18:22 | <Hixie> | 1075 bugs, hm |
| 18:22 | <Hixie> | this ought to be fun |
| 18:23 | <Hixie> | ah, no component yet |
| 18:23 | <Ms2ger> | Now they're all touched in the last few days... Maybe you could prioritize by bz being cc'd? :) |
| 18:23 | <Hixie> | hehe |
| 18:24 | <Hixie> | now that i don't have to worry about the escalation proces, i expect the closure rate will be much higher |
| 18:29 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: can you create an "HTML" component in the WHATWG product, default assignee ian⊙hc, qa contributor⊙wo? pretty please :-) |
| 18:31 | <MikeSmith> | yah of course |
| 18:33 | <Hixie> | i love the name of the "Unwelcome" component |
| 18:33 | <MikeSmith> | hah |
| 18:33 | <MikeSmith> | yeah couldn't think of another good name for that |
| 18:34 | <Hixie> | "Behind the seat cushion" |
| 18:34 | <Hixie> | or "The crack", as in "it fell through the cracks", though people would interpret that wrongly :-P |
| 18:34 | <MikeSmith> | hahaha |
| 18:35 | <MikeSmith> | anyway for now "HTML" component created |
| 18:36 | <Hixie> | sweet |
| 18:36 | <Hixie> | ok, moving all the bugs over from "other Hixie drafts" now |
| 18:36 | <MikeSmith> | k |
| 18:37 | <Hixie> | ...there's no way to do this without sending (me in particular) several thousand e-mails, is there |
| 18:37 | <MikeSmith> | me too |
| 18:37 | <Hixie> | indeed |
| 18:38 | <Hixie> | ok here goes |
| 18:39 | MikeSmith | waits to receive yet another mail bomb |
| 18:39 | <Hixie> | zewt already said i should have my decision making privileges revoked for all the spam he got |
| 18:39 | <MikeSmith> | hah |
| 18:40 | <MikeSmith> | so I guess he figures I should be stripped of decision-making privileges too |
| 18:40 | <MikeSmith> | which is fine by me me |
| 18:41 | <Hixie> | well he said whoever made the decision to do it should be |
| 18:41 | <Hixie> | so i think you may be safe |
| 18:41 | <MikeSmith> | ah OK |
| 18:41 | <MikeSmith> | damn |
| 18:41 | <MikeSmith> | I was going to suggest he contact my boss with a concrete proposal |
| 18:41 | <Hixie> | ok i updated my bug filing script and the links in the boilerplate for the whatwg specs |
| 18:41 | <Hixie> | wonder where else needs updating |
| 18:42 | <smaug____> | Hixie: so HTML bugs should go now to product:WHATWG? |
| 18:42 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: dunno really other than that |
| 18:42 | <Hixie> | smaug____: yeah |
| 18:42 | <smaug____> | ok, good. |
| 18:42 | <Hixie> | smaug____: product WHATWG, component HTML |
| 18:43 | <Hixie> | smaug____: i'll do some PSAs in IRC channels soon, but feel free to start broadcasting the news :-) |
| 18:43 | <Hixie> | smaug____: e-mail is still fine, too, of course |
| 18:43 | <Ms2ger> | Whoa, why did my inbox just jump to 259? |
| 18:43 | <Ms2ger> | Oh, Hixie |
| 18:43 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: it's about 30% done with the move, but the page itself has timed out so i only know this from doing queries :-) |
| 18:44 | <MikeSmith> | hmm OK |
| 18:44 | <Hixie> | uh oh, looks like it stalled |
| 18:45 | <Hixie> | uh |
| 18:45 | <Hixie> | 393 left in old component + 315 in new component != 1075 which we had before... |
| 18:45 | <Hixie> | that doesn't bode well |
| 18:46 | <Hixie> | oh, i see |
| 18:47 | <Hixie> | i was excluding some by mistake |
| 18:48 | <Hixie> | 134 to go... |
| 18:48 | <Hixie> | 88... |
| 18:48 | <Hixie> | oh no, it overwhelmed ms2ger! |
| 18:48 | <Hixie> | 59... |
| 18:49 | <Hixie> | 21... |
| 18:49 | <Hixie> | tis done! |
| 18:49 | <Hixie> | MikeSmith: can you delete the "other hixie drafts" component? and then i think we're done entirely with this |
| 18:49 | Hixie | informs the chairs |
| 21:18 | <Yuhong> | Hixie: I wonder whether the "HTML5 in 2022" talk inspired you to make HTML a living standard. |
| 21:23 | <Yuhong> | Wrote a blog article about the buzzword: http://yuhongbao.blogspot.com/2012/07/why-html5-buzzword-is-misnomer.html |
| 21:23 | <Yuhong> | And submitted this to Reddit and HN. |
| 21:33 | <Hixie> | Yuhong: it did not; it was the realisation that to finish in 2022 would mean not adding features for about a decade, which is simply a non-starter |
| 21:34 | <Yuhong> | Of course. Even HTML4 did not take that long. |
| 21:34 | <Hixie> | HTML4 took about 6 months, but they didn't do any of what we're doing really |
| 21:35 | <Hixie> | compared to the modern spec, HTML4 is more like a position paper |
| 21:36 | <Yuhong> | CSS 2.0 is even worse. It is unfortunate it took until after almost standards mode was created before the first draft of CSS 2.1 was published. |
| 21:37 | <Hixie> | same people, more or less |
| 21:42 | <Yuhong> | Which was after IE6 was released. |
| 21:44 | <Yuhong> | HN submission: |
| 21:44 | <Yuhong> | http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4238188 |
| 21:45 | <Yuhong> | Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/web_design/comments/whdid/why_the_html5_buzzword_is_a_misnomer/ |
| 21:48 | <Yuhong> | From that era: http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=1524 |
| 21:48 | <Yuhong> | "Is it just me, or is WaSP entirely composed of people who've never written anything other than HTML (and related standards)? Do they not realize that it takes a while to rewrite a browser from the ground up, when a community has 1/1000th the manpower of the competitor?" |
| 21:50 | <Yuhong> | Remember Netscape "Mariner"? |
| 21:55 | <annevk_> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=WHATWG&component=HTML&resolution=--- sweet! |
| 21:56 | <annevk_> | nice work Mike and Hixie! |
| 21:56 | <Hixie> | volkmar: any help on http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Text_input_keyboard_mode_control would be awesome, i'm having great trouble learning anything about non-English IMEs and input modes |
| 21:56 | <Hixie> | annevk_: :-) |
| 21:56 | <Yuhong> | WaSP refers to Web Standards Project. |
| 21:56 | <Yuhong> | WaSP refers to Web Standards Project, of course. |
| 21:58 | <Yuhong> | Also see: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=netscape%20cannot%20win&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mozillazine.org%2Ftalkback.html%3Farticle%3D1708&ei=mzEHUKWZAcelrQHX1r3bCA&usg=AFQjCNGQU0fG-3MvSFWRNwIMn7O4cEkSkQ&cad=rja |
| 21:58 | <Yuhong> | http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=1708 |
| 21:59 | <Yuhong> | Sorry. |
| 22:01 | <volkmar> | Hixie: do you want me to point to the list we thought about adding? |
| 22:04 | <annevk_> | volkmar: the use cases for the list |
| 22:08 | <volkmar> | sure |
| 22:11 | <volkmar> | annevk, Hixie : can one of you creates me an account on the wiki? |
| 22:11 | <annevk> | sure |
| 22:11 | <annevk> | email? |
| 22:11 | <volkmar> | mounir⊙lf |
| 22:12 | <annevk> | done |
| 22:13 | <Velmont> | Bah, I alwas write w3.org/Public/bugs when it' sthe other way around. |
| 22:13 | <annevk> | W3C URLs are confusing |
| 22:14 | <annevk> | but at least they don't change |
| 22:14 | <Velmont> | They're some cool URI's in that way ;-) |
| 22:21 | <volkmar> | annevk, Hixie: i added something to the wiki |
| 22:22 | <volkmar> | all of those are implementable on Androd |
| 22:22 | <volkmar> | *Android |
| 22:22 | <volkmar> | actually, I should push the patches... |
| 22:24 | <annevk> | Hixie: closed some bogus bugs |
| 23:33 | <Velmont> | Was is a good "dagger stop" to use is javascript? someone is using "z", but that's hardly the last letter in the alphabet. I guess I don't want \uffff but rather something not *too* strange (so it doesn't uncover stupid sleeping browser bugs :P) |
| 23:36 | <Velmont> | Hmmm, \uffff seems to work in Dragonfly at least. Will propose than then. :P Just hoping it isn't best practice ;] |
| 23:36 | <pablof> | Am i misunderstanding something or are the descriptions of setRangeText's selectionModes "select" and "preserve" switched? http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/association-of-controls-and-forms.html#textFieldSelection |
| 23:47 | <pablof> | Hixie: ^ |