| 06:20 | <zcorpan> | hello whatwg |
| 06:20 | <zcorpan> | what has happened in the past 4 weeks? |
| 06:42 | <hsivonen> | what's the deal with w3memes using the insanity wolf for reusing <link> or <meta> and the sanity wolf for addinga new void element to <head>? |
| 07:23 | <Ms2ger> | zcorpan, mm, the fork? |
| 07:23 | <zcorpan> | that was just before i left |
| 07:25 | <kennyluck> | 2D context also gets an editorial team? |
| 08:34 | <odinho> | zcorpan: Ms2ger asked if you were lurking on more FileAPI tests. :] |
| 08:38 | <zcorpan> | Ms2ger: we have more file api tests but they're not using testharness |
| 08:39 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: As you can see, nothing of interest. I had some questions that I would have asked you, but you were on holiday so I didn't. Now I don't even remember what they were or whether I got htem answered (I think I did) |
| 08:40 | <zcorpan> | ok. thanks |
| 08:40 | <zcorpan> | then maybe i can mark all my email as read and get on with something more useful :-) |
| 08:43 | <odinho> | zcorpan: Nop, there's one you should read regarding foms. |
| 08:44 | <odinho> | (Also, I got jealous of moz #developers and made a #dev channel for Opera :P) |
| 08:54 | <zcorpan> | heycam: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17166 |
| 08:58 | <kennyluck> | odinho, Opera internal IRC? |
| 08:59 | <odinho> | kennyluck: But of course ;-) Don't think we would've used MSN Messenger, do you? :P |
| 08:59 | <kennyluck> | odinho, it might be on irc.freenode.net. Who knows. |
| 09:00 | <odinho> | kennyluck: Oh, yeah, that was the main part -- might restrict us a bit though. |
| 09:27 | <heycam> | zcorpan, thanks, though I thought that bug was resolved |
| 09:27 | <heycam> | zcorpan, I guess it was the other identical bug |
| 09:28 | <heycam> | zcorpan, actually is it a dupe of https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18003 ? |
| 09:28 | heycam | goes to eat dinner |
| 11:10 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=49976 - now opera/firefox/chrome follow the link, maybe the spec should be changed... |
| 11:26 | <AryehGregor> | zcorpan or other Opera people: why does "Check for Updates" tell me I'm using the latest version of Opera, but "About Opera" says Opera Next 12.00 alpha and I see a 12.50 alpha for download? |
| 11:27 | <hsivonen> | AryehGregor: on Linux? |
| 11:27 | <AryehGregor> | Yes. |
| 11:27 | <hsivonen> | AryehGregor: if you installed from .deb, the updates always seem to be late |
| 11:28 | <odinho> | Yeah, it's not an a real railway track yet :P Hopefully it'll become a bit better after 12.50. |
| 11:34 | <kennyluck> | AryehGregor, are you using Opera or Opera Next? Opera Next updated me to 12.50 internal. |
| 11:34 | <AryehGregor> | kennyluck, Opera Next. |
| 11:34 | <kennyluck> | hmm… that's odd then. It works for me. |
| 11:48 | <zcorpan> | AryehGregor: i don't know. can you file a bug? |
| 11:48 | <AryehGregor> | zcorpan, I got bored a year or two ago of filing bugs in bug trackers I can't see and never got noticeable feedback on. |
| 11:48 | AryehGregor | updated manually |
| 11:49 | <zcorpan> | AryehGregor: ok |
| 12:52 | <hsivonen> | AryehGregor: what does "manually" mean? AFAICT, Ubuntu doesn't update Opera, Chrome, Spotify, etc., as soon as updates become available. it updates them only as a side effect of updating some packages coming from Ubuntu repos. |
| 12:53 | <AryehGregor> | hsivonen, by downloading the new .deb from opera.com in a web browsers. |
| 12:53 | <AryehGregor> | I think Opera 12.50 has been available for longer than the time since I last updated. |
| 12:53 | <AryehGregor> | But Ubuntu disables third-party repos on OS upgrade, maybe that's the problem. |
| 12:53 | <AryehGregor> | Chrome works around it by occasionally checking if the repo is enabled and re-enabling it if it's not, I think, or something like that. |
| 13:13 | <odinho> | Hmm. That might be a good idea. |
| 13:28 | <hsivonen> | When will ftp: join gopher: in the graveyard cross-browser... |
| 14:00 | <zewt> | hsivonen: given that it's useful, still used all the time and has no serious replacement, i would think not soon, heh |
| 14:12 | <odinho> | AryehGregor, hsivonen: So, it should be fixed for further releases the desktop people say. I hope so, I've had to do a few manual ones myself. |
| 15:36 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: In my experience, it's possible to browse with 1rem = 18px without breaking the Web |
| 15:36 | <hsivonen> | I wouldn't be surprised if 1rem = 14px worked, too. |
| 15:37 | <hsivonen> | (I've used 1rem = 18px for years and years) |
| 15:37 | <hsivonen> | (Of course, the unit "rem" hasn't existed for that long, but you know what I mean.) |
| 15:48 | <hsivonen> | will anyone ever in practice supply images with sampling other than 1 image pixel per CSS pixel and 2 image pixels per CSS pixel? |
| 15:52 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: It seems hard to know and bad to bake into the spec that those are the only values allowed |
| 15:54 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: baking it in the spec would sure simplify things |
| 15:54 | <jgraham> | Simplify which things? |
| 15:55 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 15:55 | <hsivonen> | if Apple is using 2x for "retina" and "retina" means a human eye can't tell the pixels apart, why would anyone bother with more than 2x ever? |
| 15:55 | <hsivonen> | for photos that is |
| 15:55 | <hsivonen> | for sharp line art you should use SVG anyway |
| 15:55 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: well, we could have just src and hisrc if there are two samplings and art direction is ignored |
| 15:56 | <hsivonen> | then art direction could be a different syntactic axis |
| 15:56 | <jgraham> | Well it seems that real devices are already bothering with > 2x |
| 15:56 | <hsivonen> | for example? |
| 15:57 | <hsivonen> | hah. Hixie's email is so epically long that Gmail clips it |
| 15:57 | <jgraham> | Pretty sure florian mentions some later in the thread |
| 15:57 | <jgraham> | And without looking at any of the actual facts, colour me skeptical that the most convenient resolution for Apple given its legacy constraints happens to be the maximum resolution that anyone will ever want |
| 15:59 | <Ms2ger> | Why not src and lowsrc? ;) |
| 16:00 | <hsivonen> | I said hisrc as an analogy with lowsrc, since I'm old enough to remember |
| 16:01 | <Ms2ger> | hsivonen, oh, this is you: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7hawuJGGS1rvsbh9o1_500.jpg ? |
| 16:07 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: existence proof of devices with non-1-or-2 device pixel ratios is no proof that author will bother to supply more bitmap samplins than 1 and 2 |
| 16:08 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: given how hard it is to get authors to care about non-Apple mobile browsers, good luck getting authors to supply a 1.25 factor sampling |
| 16:09 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: I don't think arguing that authors only care about Apple products so we should just do whatever maps most closely to Apple's current hardware is a good one to make either in principle or in practice |
| 16:53 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: zoom to 200% and you're already needing 4x images |
| 16:53 | <Hixie> | today |
| 16:56 | <Hixie> | jgraham: especially given that even apple is so early on in this cycle that they haven't finished transitioning to it |
| 16:56 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: (btw, macbook pro's "retina" isn't "true retina" by apple's own standards, as i understand it) |
| 16:56 | <Hixie> | (though as a user i have to say it's damn nice) |
| 17:13 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: I admit that it would be nice to be able to implement photo zooming without site-side logic |
| 17:14 | <hsivonen> | (so that zooming on a Flickr page would eventually show the original size from camera without JS) |
| 17:15 | <hsivonen> | seems like and edge case, though |
| 17:16 | <Hixie> | you think more people have Apple retina displays than zoom? that seems... unlikely, especially given how prevalent zooming is on mobile phones |
| 17:20 | <hsivonen> | interesting that http://www.davidmacd.com/WCAG/WAI/buggy.html recommends removing all the examples it mentions and doesn't recommend *correcting* any of them |
| 17:21 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: but is zooming on phones deeper than 1x field of view on desktop prevalent? |
| 17:23 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: i certainly do it, but i have no data one way or the other. Zooming the other way (also supported in the spec) is certainly prevalent. |
| 17:30 | <Ms2ger> | <iframe></iframe> |
| 17:30 | <Ms2ger> | window[0] = "foo" |
| 17:31 | <Ms2ger> | What is window[0]? |
| 17:33 | <Hixie> | WindowProxy object to the Window inside the browsing context of the iframe |
| 17:33 | <Hixie> | oh wait |
| 17:33 | <Hixie> | i missed the = "foo" |
| 17:33 | <Hixie> | so that becomes a webidl question, ping heycam|away :-) |
| 17:34 | <weinig> | nice passing the buck |
| 17:34 | <weinig> | :) |
| 17:35 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 17:36 | <Ms2ger> | Hixie, Firefox still does what you suggest :) |
| 17:36 | <Hixie> | Ms2ger: that'd be my preferred answer |
| 17:36 | <Hixie> | Ms2ger: but i don't know if it's what the idl requires |
| 17:37 | <Ms2ger> | I think it might be |
| 17:37 | <Ms2ger> | Only I have no idea how the Gecko code does it :) |
| 20:53 | <smaug____> | dglazkov: hey, does shadow DOM already support default handling for events |
| 20:53 | <smaug____> | I mean, is it possible to define default handler |
| 21:10 | <dglazkov> | smaug____: no, there's no plumbing for that. Give me an example of where it could be useful. I can file a bug. |
| 21:14 | <smaug____> | dglazkov: well, if you want to implement something like <a> using shadow dom |
| 21:14 | <smaug____> | or a form control |
| 21:15 | <smaug____> | you may want to default handling click event |
| 21:15 | <smaug____> | s/handling/handle/ |
| 21:19 | <dglazkov> | smaug____: ah, I see. This is actually necessary if we try to implement built-in elements. Right. |
| 21:19 | <dglazkov> | smaug____: I'll file a bug |
| 21:36 | <smaug____> | thanks |
| 22:27 | <zewt> | am I going blind or is there no way to tell whether a popstate is a forward or negative navigation |
| 22:29 | <zewt> | uh ... backward, even, heh |
| 23:05 | <Hixie> | zewt: it's in the event object iirc |
| 23:11 | <zewt> | Hixie: in PopStateEvent? that only has .state (null when pushState/replaceState aren't used) |
| 23:14 | <Hixie> | oh maybe i'm thinking of pageshow/pagehide |
| 23:14 | <Hixie> | yeah, nevermind |
| 23:15 | <Hixie> | what's your use case exactly? maybe there's something we shoudl add |
| 23:16 | <zewt> | transitions |
| 23:17 | <zewt> | the page has left/right transitions internally for its own navigations; i want back/forward navigations to mimic it, since it's weird if browser nav always goes right |
| 23:18 | <Hixie> | interesting |
| 23:49 | <heycam> | Hixie, if an interface supports indexed properties but without an indexed property setter/creator, then an assignment like that will throw an exception in strict mode, and be ignored in non-strict mode |
