| 06:56 | <zcorpan> | sigh. i want to demo incremental rendering and have problems with php flush thing not working :-( |
| 07:00 | <hsivonen> | <?php ob_flush(); flush(); ob_flush(); sleep(3); ?> |
| 07:00 | <hsivonen> | that works for me |
| 07:13 | <zcorpan> | doens't appear to work for me. http://simon.html5.org/sandbox/html/incremental-ajax-iframe/slow-load.php |
| 07:14 | <zcorpan> | i get chunked encoding but no incremental rendering |
| 07:19 | zcorpan | gives up |
| 07:21 | <annevk> | http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/page-loading/incremental/002.cgi?mime=text%2Fhtml&delay=1&repeats=100 doesn't work either for me |
| 07:21 | <annevk> | I wonder if browsers changed their rendering model maybe |
| 07:22 | <annevk> | actually, that one kinda does work |
| 07:23 | <annevk> | just wasn't waiting long enough |
| 07:23 | <annevk> | http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/page-loading/incremental/002.cgi?mime=text%2Fhtml&delay=1&repeats=20 makes it easier |
| 07:31 | <hsivonen> | argh. Opera on Linux is a pain to use with a non-QWERTY keyboard layout |
| 07:31 | <hsivonen> | it triggers keyboard shortcuts based on the hardware keycodes rather than the baked letters |
| 07:32 | <hsivonen> | just opening it for test cases is super-annoying, because ctrl-l and ctrl-v don’t work |
| 07:32 | <zcorpan> | annevk: a script with an alert doesn't run until the end so it's not just rendering |
| 07:33 | <hsivonen> | I guess this is what you get when you bypass the toolkits on Linux |
| 07:33 | <annevk> | I meant that in a broad way, but yeah, I should have said page loading |
| 08:03 | <[tm]> | hello friends |
| 08:04 | <[tm]> | back from my triumphant European tour 2012 |
| 08:04 | <annevk> | mike[tm] 2012!!1!! |
| 08:04 | <[tm]> | heh |
| 08:05 | <[tm]> | hsivonen: planning to work on some validator bugs |
| 08:06 | <hsivonen> | [tm]: cool! |
| 08:17 | <jgraham> | [tm]: Did you sell t-shirts with the venues and dates on the back? |
| 08:18 | <annevk> | which reminds me, is that Docxs t-shirt made yet? |
| 08:19 | <jgraham> | Yeah, did you order one? |
| 08:19 | <annevk> | I thought I did |
| 08:20 | <jgraham> | OK, odinho is in charge |
| 08:20 | <jgraham> | Ask him |
| 08:20 | <odinho> | annevk: Yeah, I have one for you at my desk. |
| 08:20 | <odinho> | annevk: But you haven't been visiting me much lately :-( |
| 08:21 | <odinho> | 09:32 < hsivonen> argh. Opera on Linux is a pain to use with a non-QWERTY keyboard layout <---- only next. |
| 08:21 | <odinho> | hsivonen: It's a very well known bug, I'm using dvorak myself, so I get totally tripped up. :] |
| 08:23 | <odinho> | hsivonen: You can use F8 instead of CTRL+L |
| 08:23 | <odinho> | hsivonen: Or if you just want to go to an URL, just middle-click in the middle of a page (not over a textarea), it will go to the url by itself. |
| 08:23 | <[tm]> | jgraham: yeah but I spent all the proceeds on hash in Amsterdam |
| 08:42 | <hsivonen> | odinho: good to know it’s known. thanks |
| 09:26 | [tm] | only just now discovers https://github.com/whatwg |
| 09:54 | <annevk> | [tm]: since all web developers appear to be on github, seemed nice to have the web standards there too |
| 09:54 | <danbri> | might as well move all websites there too |
| 09:54 | <annevk> | some do |
| 09:59 | <jgraham> | google.github.com |
| 09:59 | <[tm]> | annevk: everybody except Ms2ger |
| 09:59 | <annevk> | [tm]: he is too actually, and pushed some stuff to whatwg/dom already |
| 09:59 | <jgraham> | Eventually we should just remove the .github.com suffix and wire browsers to assume that all sites are github subdomains |
| 09:59 | <[tm]> | omg |
| 09:59 | <annevk> | [tm]: with hggit it works fine for him |
| 09:59 | <annevk> | or her |
| 09:59 | <jgraham> | "it" |
| 10:00 | <[tm]> | annevk: hell hath frozen over |
| 10:00 | <annevk> | had anyone confirmed gender yet? |
| 10:00 | <annevk> | "it" works :) |
| 10:00 | <[tm]> | Ms2ger is more of a "phenomenon" |
| 10:00 | <[tm]> | a force of nature |
| 10:00 | <annevk> | danbri: we actually host the specs elsewhere, e.g. http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/ |
| 10:00 | <jgraham> | annevk: I have never seen Ms2ger naked if that's what you're asking |
| 10:00 | <[tm]> | 神 |
| 10:01 | <annevk> | danbri: so when github goes bankrupt we just have to upload the repository elsewhere |
| 10:01 | <[tm]> | annevk: btw have you been looking at Chris Weber's tests? |
| 10:01 | <[tm]> | URL tests |
| 10:02 | <annevk> | it appears he just converted WebKit's tests to some weird XML format |
| 10:02 | <annevk> | as far as I can tell anyway |
| 10:02 | <annevk> | so I just used those from WebKit |
| 10:03 | <[tm]> | https://github.com/cweb/iri-tests |
| 10:03 | <[tm]> | annevk: I'm pretty sure he has a bunch of tests in addition to the WebKit ones |
| 10:03 | <annevk> | okay |
| 10:03 | <annevk> | http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/URL links to it already |
| 10:04 | <[tm]> | OK |
| 10:05 | <[tm]> | ah yeah some tests from Julian |
| 10:05 | <[tm]> | http://greenbytes.de/tech/tc/uris/ and http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/urldecomp.xml |
| 10:06 | <annevk> | so his tests don't include expected results |
| 10:06 | <[tm]> | eh? |
| 10:06 | <[tm]> | wow |
| 10:06 | <annevk> | might as well write tests from scratch then... |
| 10:06 | <annevk> | well, some do, some don't |
| 10:08 | <[tm]> | yeah lack of expected results makes stuff pretty useless |
| 10:18 | <annevk> | so for javascript: and data: and basically all non-hierarchical schemes you do not escape <>?# etc. |
| 10:18 | <annevk> | and you can only modify fragment |
| 10:18 | <annevk> | I guess that works |
| 10:19 | <annevk> | and the value of a javascript URL is then path[0] + fragment |
| 10:20 | <annevk> | otherwise javascript:alert('#1') would not work |
| 10:20 | <annevk> | and it does |
| 10:39 | <AryehGregor> | annevk, props for the easy-to-remember DOM spec URL. |
| 10:39 | <AryehGregor> | (even if I'm worried Microsoft will fork it in the W3C -- couldn't you have gone with a CG?) |
| 10:45 | <annevk> | we can still publish FSA through a CG |
| 10:45 | <annevk> | through the WHATCG |
| 10:52 | <annevk> | AryehGregor: also, I'm not a member of any CGs at the moment, I've not taken the time yet to read all the legal things around it |
| 10:53 | <[tm]> | annevk: might be worth moving over MIME-sniffing draft from https://github.com/abarth/websec to https://github.com/whatwg too |
| 10:54 | <annevk> | I'll let abarth decide on that |
| 10:54 | <annevk> | I guess I can add him to /whatwg as a first step |
| 10:56 | <annevk> | [tm]: you want to be a member too? since you were editing URL at some point? |
| 10:57 | <annevk> | [tm]: also, I was wondering if we could add a box to http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/url/raw-file/tip/Overview.html about it not being maintained |
| 10:57 | <[tm]> | annevk: yeah, I can add that |
| 10:58 | <[tm]> | and yeah please add me as a member and I'll copy over the current MIME sniff draft |
| 10:58 | <[tm]> | I am pretty sure abarth is not planning to work on that further |
| 10:59 | <annevk> | done |
| 11:09 | <annevk> | anyone from Gecko around that can tell me where Gecko's javascript URL code is located? |
| 11:14 | <[tm]> | annevk: gracias |
| 11:14 | <[tm]> | annevk: oh, btw, I rememer a while back on some list that abarth was explaining that |
| 11:14 | <annevk> | bz too I think |
| 11:15 | <[tm]> | annevk: abarth was explaining about some spec not dealing with IRIs but instead with just URIs |
| 11:16 | <[tm]> | because of failure of the RFCs to actually properly define how to get a URI from an IRI |
| 11:17 | <[tm]> | do you remember reading that? if so, which list? |
| 11:17 | <[tm]> | I been looking for it but can't remember where it was |
| 11:18 | <SimonSapin> | [tm]: this? http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3987#section-3.1 |
| 11:19 | <annevk> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2010Nov/0317.html is the one I was talking about |
| 11:19 | <annevk> | [tm]: dunno, but I know browsers have one URL code path |
| 11:20 | <annevk> | [tm]: and "IRI like" input gets converted to percent escaped stuff when needed |
| 11:20 | <annevk> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2010Nov/0317.html is the one where bz explains some weird javascript: URL stuff |
| 11:26 | <annevk> | hmm |
| 11:26 | <annevk> | but it gets even weirder |
| 11:27 | <annevk> | e.g. javascript:alert('%e2%84') yields some weird character while in utf-8 it's bogus |
| 11:27 | <annevk> | %e2 is the start of a three-byte sequence |
| 11:29 | <Ms3ger> | Looks like I missed some interesting chatter earlier... |
| 11:29 | <Ms3ger> | Also, annevk, http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/src/jsurl/ |
| 11:30 | Ms3ger | wanders off again |
| 11:50 | <[tm]> | annevk: thanks |
| 11:50 | <[tm]> | turns out http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webappsec/2012Sep/thread.html#msg5 is what I was forgetting |
| 11:50 | <[tm]> | "Interaction of CSP and IRIs " thread with bz and abarth |
| 11:51 | <[tm]> | [[ |
| 11:51 | <[tm]> | Converting IRIs to URIs is a big mess. It's something that needs to |
| 11:51 | <[tm]> | be solved for the whole platform. I tried to solve it a couple years |
| 11:51 | <[tm]> | ago, but gave up. |
| 11:51 | <[tm]> | ]] |
| 11:51 | <[tm]> | et.c |
| 11:54 | <annevk> | ah yeah |
| 11:54 | <annevk> | the IDNA2008 vs IDNA2003 thing |
| 11:54 | <annevk> | UTS #46 attempted to solve that |
| 11:55 | <AryehGregor> | Is it testable whether an object's NativeBrand is "NativeError" vs. something else? |
| 11:56 | <annevk> | not looking forward to solving the IDNA problem |
| 11:57 | <annevk> | well, I can solve it, just superset IDNA2003 somehow or say IDNA2008 is the way, either way some group is going to yell |
| 11:58 | <annevk> | how the fuck the IETF could ever decided to break compatibility in domain names is beyond me |
| 12:12 | <[tm]> | annevk: btw and just FYI, http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/iri/trac/report/6 |
| 12:16 | <AryehGregor> | annevk, comments welcome on: http://w3c-test.org/webapps/DOMCore/tests/approved/exceptions.html |
| 12:16 | <AryehGregor> | (which I just committed) |
| 12:16 | <AryehGregor> | I can't think of anything else to test regarding exception-throwing, TBH. |
| 12:20 | <[tm]> | SimonSapin: see abarth comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webappsec/2012Sep/0005.html thread |
| 12:23 | <annevk> | [tm]: is that still maintained? |
| 12:24 | <annevk> | [tm]: guess I could check some of those to see if they're addressed or not |
| 12:26 | <[tm]> | annevk: that's why I suggested it |
| 12:26 | <[tm]> | not sure if it's still maintained |
| 12:26 | <[tm]> | will ask Larry |
| 12:27 | <[tm]> | annevk: do you think it would be useful to try to encourage some new discussion on the public-iri list/ |
| 12:27 | <[tm]> | e.g., post a link to the current URL draft and ask for feedback? |
| 12:28 | <annevk> | I don't really plan to subscribe |
| 12:28 | <annevk> | and the www-tag discussion was kinda pointless |
| 12:29 | <annevk> | given the experience of interacting with those people for the past six years I'm not too hopeful for novel contributions, but we can try I suppose |
| 12:30 | <[tm]> | annevk: it would be good to find some way if we can |
| 12:30 | <[tm]> | annevk: btw http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/iri/trac/report/1?asc=1&sort=ticket is better view maybe |
| 12:30 | <[tm]> | shows only the open issues |
| 12:31 | <[tm]> | 37 open |
| 12:31 | <annevk> | [tm]: you think there's some gain there? |
| 12:31 | <annevk> | [tm]: I don't mind subscribing and posting if you think we should |
| 12:31 | <annevk> | [tm]: just wonder what the upside is |
| 12:32 | <[tm]> | well I am getting some complaint that we are ignoring use cases |
| 12:32 | <annevk> | jreschke will point out once again how he thinks this should really be on top of the existing specs somehow rather than replacing them |
| 12:32 | <[tm]> | for non-Web considerations |
| 12:32 | <annevk> | that this is really about error handling instead of a better approach to define URLs, etc. |
| 12:32 | <[tm]> | and non-browsers |
| 12:33 | <[tm]> | annevk: yeah |
| 12:33 | <annevk> | we're addressing the problems curl and such have |
| 12:33 | <[tm]> | OK |
| 12:34 | <annevk> | and this should help every consumer of HTML too... |
| 12:34 | <annevk> | or consumer of CSS |
| 12:35 | <annevk> | back later, tuna steak time |
| 12:39 | <SimonSapin> | We have a CSS issue on the definition of what’s in the url(foo) syntax, and how it should be interpreted |
| 12:40 | <SimonSapin> | (CSS escaping allows any unicode string) |
| 12:40 | <zcorpan> | SimonSapin: what's the issue? |
| 12:41 | <SimonSapin> | the spec previously said URI, it should say IRI or something else |
| 12:41 | <zcorpan> | clearly it should say URL :-) |
| 12:42 | <SimonSapin> | well, the name of the "value type" is <url> and the syntax is url(...) |
| 12:46 | <zcorpan> | the syntax is defined in http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-syntax/ |
| 12:46 | <zcorpan> | the value type should be updated to reference http://url.spec.whatwg.org/ |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | [tm]: so hey, I guess you should go out about now ;) but lets look into writing to public-iri next week or so |
| 12:55 | <annevk> | [tm]: I'm definitely open to all kinds of use cases, but my primary concern is what's important for http://platform.html5.org |
| 12:56 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: yeah, CSS should reference the URL Standard, it should just pass the string (collection of code points) to the parser and set the base URL appropriately and that's that |
| 13:17 | <[tm]> | annevk: OK |
| 13:17 | <[tm]> | I been talking to Larry already |
| 13:17 | <[tm]> | will talk to Martin in persdon if I can get him to make some time |
| 13:17 | <[tm]> | agreed about that use cases |
| 13:18 | <[tm]> | but I can understand others feeling like they're being blown off |
| 13:18 | <[tm]> | those the overstatement is tiresome |
| 13:18 | <[tm]> | sometimes |
| 13:21 | <zcorpan> | annevk: "Otherwise, set state to no scheme and start over (from the first code point in input)." why does this need to start over? |
| 13:26 | <[tm]> | annevk: wondering now if it might make sense for the URL spec to explicitly define some conformance classes |
| 13:26 | <[tm]> | if so I can take a shot at adding some language |
| 13:26 | <zcorpan> | though i guess it would be implemented by checking against /^[0-9a-zA-Z\+\-\.]*$/ so i guess it's fine |
| 13:26 | <[tm]> | e.g., based on subset of classes in the HTML spec |
| 13:43 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: the URL Standard, this one http://url.spec.whatwg.org/ ? |
| 13:43 | <Ms2ger> | Yep |
| 13:57 | <[tm]> | annevk: https://github.com/whatwg/mimesniff |
| 13:57 | <[tm]> | annevk: if you can set up http://mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org/ that'd be great |
| 13:57 | <[tm]> | oh |
| 13:57 | <[tm]> | cool |
| 13:58 | <[tm]> | I see it's already there |
| 13:58 | <[tm]> | automatic I guess |
| 13:58 | <[tm]> | nice |
| 13:58 | <[tm]> | ah no |
| 13:58 | <[tm]> | I guess it was already there before |
| 14:00 | <annevk> | yeah that was there before |
| 14:00 | <annevk> | [tm]: who is going to maintain whatwg/mimesniff? |
| 14:00 | <annevk> | [tm]: I can set up some kind of thing to make that work |
| 14:03 | <annevk> | need to coordinate with Hixie |
| 14:04 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: yup |
| 14:05 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: I wish I had this a few months ago :) |
| 14:05 | <annevk> | zcorpan: because you end up in "hierarchical" which does not reuse buffer |
| 14:05 | <annevk> | zcorpan: which means I need to reset buffer there I think |
| 14:07 | <annevk> | [tm]: the situation is a bit similar with DOM Events; it's easier to just write a better standard than get the people "in charge" to fix theirs |
| 14:11 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: ah, you are/were implementing a CSS parser? |
| 14:12 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: Yes. I’m making WeasyPrint (an UA with PDF output) and it’s dependency tinycss (CSS parser) |
| 14:13 | <annevk> | ah, in Python, sweet |
| 14:13 | <SimonSapin> | yes |
| 14:13 | <SimonSapin> | but weasyprint still has url-related bugs, so this new spec will be useful to me |
| 14:14 | <annevk> | it's not fully complete, but for http/https at least it should be pretty accurate |
| 14:14 | <annevk> | though I've yet to fully figure out IP addresses and host names, they're nasty |
| 14:14 | <annevk> | and then especially host names are nasty |
| 15:00 | <[tm]> | annevk: I can be responsible for whatever minimal maintenance it might need for now |
| 15:01 | <[tm]> | there are no open bugs against it as far as I know |
| 15:01 | <[tm]> | and it's fairly mature as far as I can tell |
| 15:01 | <annevk> | okay |
| 15:02 | <annevk> | so currently abarth owns mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org |
| 15:02 | <annevk> | I'll ask Hixie to change that to me so I can set up the syncing script |
| 15:05 | <annevk> | Never thought I would care about boring shit like copyright. I even feel slightly passionate about it |
| 15:06 | <karlcow> | ideally people would not sign at all their work |
| 15:06 | <SimonSapin> | slightly passionate :) |
| 15:06 | <karlcow> | but I guess it depends on the type of ideals the person has |
| 15:07 | <karlcow> | :) |
| 15:28 | <karlcow> | annevk: you have a date |
| 15:58 | <abarth> | annevk: thanks |
| 16:33 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 16:47 | <smaug____> | error event handling is special only in onerror event handler, right? |
| 16:51 | <smaug____> | nm |
| 17:32 | <annevk> | Hixie: morning enough already? |
| 18:08 | <Hixie> | annevk: sup |
| 18:08 | Hixie | just realised he was working and hadn't yet checked irc and e-mail! |
| 18:17 | <annevk> | Hixie: can you change the user of mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org to be annevankesteren? |
| 18:17 | <Hixie> | abarth is handing it over to you? |
| 18:17 | Hixie | pokes abarth for confirmation |
| 18:17 | <abarth> | go for it |
| 18:17 | <Hixie> | thanks |
| 18:17 | <Hixie> | annevk: on it |
| 18:17 | <Hixie> | hm |
| 18:17 | <abarth> | annevk: thanks for taking up the cause |
| 18:17 | <Hixie> | this is going to nuke the directory, is that ok? |
| 18:18 | <Hixie> | or actually, i guess it won't |
| 18:18 | <Hixie> | it'll just move to pointing to an empty one |
| 18:18 | <annevk> | Hixie: (the complete story is that mike is going to do it and I will set up syncing between github and the spec) |
| 18:18 | <Hixie> | the old one is abarth's user will still be there |
| 18:18 | <Hixie> | annevk: nice |
| 18:18 | <annevk> | Hixie: yeah that's okay, it will be updated shortly |
| 18:18 | <Hixie> | k |
| 18:18 | <Hixie> | Please Stand By... |
| 18:18 | <annevk> | hopefully I can do it in ten minutes, otherwise it'll have to wait an hour |
| 18:19 | <Hixie> | oh sweet, dreamhost actually do support moving the files over |
| 18:19 | <annevk> | yeah I thought so |
| 18:19 | <Hixie> | abarth: you don't have anything secret in the directory, do you? |
| 18:19 | <Hixie> | abarth: if not, i'll just move it over |
| 18:20 | <Hixie> | annevk: ~/mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org/ ? |
| 18:20 | <annevk> | Hixie: yeah |
| 18:20 | <annevk> | just defaults |
| 18:21 | <Ms2ger> | I guess we should get parsing set up there too |
| 18:22 | <Hixie> | annevk: just in case abarth does have secret files there (e.g. svn password or something) I haven't copied the files over |
| 18:22 | <Hixie> | annevk: but it is otherwise done. |
| 18:22 | <annevk> | Hixie: sweet, I'll set up the sync script |
| 18:22 | <GPHemsley> | Is the WHATWG "official" MIME type for WAVE files "audio/wave"? Is this a willful violation of RFC 2361 (which specifies "audio/vnd.wave")? And where does that leave "audio/wav" and "audio/x-wav"? |
| 18:22 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: the WHATWG "official" stance on MIME types in general is "sigh" |
| 18:22 | <GPHemsley> | :) |
| 18:23 | <GPHemsley> | s/official/canonical/ |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | yeah, sanse quotes too :) |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | euh, sans* |
| 18:23 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: the honest answer is we haven't fixed MIME types yet |
| 18:23 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: it's on the roadmap, but probably not for this year |
| 18:24 | <GPHemsley> | I see |
| 18:24 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: i expect to revamp the way registrations for everything is done at some point |
| 18:24 | <Hixie> | and that may affect mime types also |
| 18:24 | <GPHemsley> | what do you recommend in the meantime? |
| 18:24 | <annevk> | I have MIME in general as something I'd like to fix at some point |
| 18:24 | <Hixie> | for audio/wave, probably doesnt' matter, i'd assume it all gets sniffed anytway |
| 18:24 | <annevk> | at least define MIME type parsing and MIME type parameter parsing in more detail |
| 18:25 | <annevk> | because that's kind of a mess |
| 18:25 | <Hixie> | that too |
| 18:25 | <GPHemsley> | alright |
| 18:25 | <annevk> | http://mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org/ is up and running again |
| 18:26 | <annevk> | commits to https://github.com/whatwg/mimesniff will be propagated |
| 18:27 | <annevk> | thanks Hixie / abarth |
| 18:27 | <annevk> | and [tm] ! |
| 18:28 | <Hixie> | Ms2ger: let me know if you do want me to set things up for you (or tell anne and have him ask me to set it up for him :-) ) |
| 18:28 | <Ms2ger> | Having anne do it for me sounds good ;) |
| 18:29 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: ask Hixie for a URL and have him assign it to the annevankesteren account :p |
| 18:29 | <Ms2ger> | parsing? |
| 18:29 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: and make a github repo |
| 18:29 | <Hixie> | parsing.spec.whatwg.org? |
| 18:29 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, what did you use to convert the repo? |
| 18:29 | <annevk> | gotta catch a train |
| 18:29 | <Ms2ger> | See you, then :) |
| 18:30 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: the hggit stuff, I can do that for you if you want, later |
| 18:30 | <Hixie> | man, anne's getting jeff crashing his town to speak to him |
| 18:30 | <Hixie> | high roller |
| 18:30 | <Hixie> | domparsing.spec.whatwg.org? |
| 18:30 | <Hixie> | what spec are we talking about here? |
| 18:31 | <Ms2ger> | http://html5.org/specs/dom-parsing.html |
| 18:32 | <[tm]> | annevk: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/url/raw-file/default/Overview.html |
| 18:32 | <Hixie> | so domparsing.spec ? |
| 18:32 | <Ms2ger> | That works |
| 18:32 | <Hixie> | [tm]: can you do that with html too? :-P |
| 18:33 | <[tm]> | heh |
| 18:33 | <Ms2ger> | [tm], and DOM4? :) |
| 18:33 | <[tm]> | my hit points are limited |
| 18:34 | <Hixie> | hah |
| 18:35 | <Hixie> | Ms2ger: please complete this sentence re that spec: "This specification defines " |
| 18:36 | <Hixie> | (for whatwg.org/specs) |
| 18:36 | <Ms2ger> | "DOM APIs related to parsing markup into DOM trees and serializing DOM trees into markup"? :) |
| 18:36 | <Hixie> | thanks |
| 18:36 | Ms2ger | is happy he wrote an abstract once |
| 18:37 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 18:37 | <Hixie> | up to anne now |
| 18:39 | <[tm]> | this looks exciting: https://twitter.com/esdiscuss/ |
| 18:48 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, everything set up |
| 18:55 | <Hixie> | "If the [script] element does not have a src attribute, and the element has been flagged as "parser-inserted", and [...] the parser that created the script is [...] an HTML parser whose script nesting level is zero [...]" |
| 18:56 | <Hixie> | how can that ever happen? |
| 18:57 | <Hixie> | i added that on 2012-08-28 |
| 18:57 | <Hixie> | hmm |
| 18:57 | <Hixie> | that's only a month ago |
| 18:59 | <Hixie> | oh i think i meant "is 1" |
| 18:59 | <Hixie> | not zero |
| 18:59 | <Hixie> | (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2012Aug/0231.html) |
| 19:14 | <Hixie> | annevk: re URLs: did you file a bug on updating the HTML spec to point to URL? |
| 19:15 | <Hixie> | annevk: and, is there any chance I can get you to define "URL" as a string, and use a slightly different term for the decomposed+absolute form? maybe "absolute URL"? |
| 19:15 | <Hixie> | annevk: (it would make merging way easier, and be more consistent with how people refer to URLs) |
| 19:16 | <annevk> | that would be kinda confusing with the URL object |
| 19:17 | <Hixie> | people think the value in href="foo.html" is a URL, I don't think we're going to convince them otherwise |
| 19:17 | <annevk> | you have a point there |
| 19:18 | <Hixie> | having the URL object represent an absolute URL is ok, i think. You can always _create_ a URL object from a relative one, right? |
| 19:18 | <Hixie> | it'll just resolve it first |
| 19:18 | <annevk> | you can if you provide a base URL |
| 19:18 | <Hixie> | oh it doesn't use the the script base URL? interesting |
| 19:18 | <annevk> | maybe it should fallback to that, didn't think of that |
| 19:19 | <Hixie> | didn't we define a Location.resolve() method at some point? |
| 19:19 | <annevk> | I hate the terminology minefield |
| 19:19 | <annevk> | Hixie: we removed it in favor of the URL constructor |
| 19:19 | <Hixie> | ah ok good |
| 19:19 | <Hixie> | i was about to suggest doing that |
| 19:19 | <Hixie> | ok so yeah, i'd say default to the script base URL or something |
| 19:20 | <Hixie> | but either way, i think it makes the name of hte URL object be fine |
| 19:20 | <Hixie> | even if we define URL as the string like in HTML today, and absolute URL as the decomposed thing that the algorithms use |
| 19:22 | <annevk> | Hixie: give it another two weeks or so and I'll file that bug; there's a conference here next week and I'm not sure how much time I have; I also want to try updating XMLHttpRequest first to use the new URL stuff to see how it works out |
| 19:23 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: you're ready to go btw |
| 19:23 | <Ms2ger> | Excellent, thanks :) |
| 19:23 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: do you want a redirect from http://html5.org/specs/dom-parsing.html or should I make it nice page like the one we have for ranges? |
| 19:23 | <Ms2ger> | A redirect, I think |
| 19:23 | <annevk> | kk |
| 19:24 | <Hixie> | annevk: lgtm |
| 19:25 | <annevk> | Hixie: if we call all strings URL I think we should reserve absolute URL for the form that is not relative, and use "parsed URL" or some such for the object |
| 19:26 | <annevk> | I'm not a big fan of that terminology personally though |
| 19:26 | <annevk> | having written a URL spec I can see why they went with relative reference and URI :) |
| 19:28 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: done |
| 19:29 | <Ms2ger> | Thanks |
| 19:32 | <Hixie> | annevk: "parsed URL" works for me. I'd just have to change "resulting absolute URL" throughout |
| 19:32 | <Hixie> | annevk: which is better than changing every instance of URL anywhere. :-) |
| 19:32 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: yt? |
| 19:33 | <Hixie> | hsivonen, abarth: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17872 |
| 19:41 | <abarth> | Hixie: is that a feature request or a compat issue? |
| 19:42 | <Hixie> | feature request |
| 19:42 | <Hixie> | it's asking for <form id=a></form> <fieldset form=a> <input> </fieldset> to associate the input with the form |
| 19:42 | <annevk> | abarth: so to your knowledge WebKit is going to stick with IDNA2003? or are there plans to implement UTS #46? |
| 19:42 | <annevk> | abarth: I'm not too interested in what the IETF thinks, I just want to define what everyone wants to converge towards |
| 19:43 | <abarth> | annevk: I believe it's a port specific decision |
| 19:43 | <annevk> | abarth: I saw Gecko might just go to IDNA2008 by adopting some library |
| 19:43 | <abarth> | annevk: Chrome doesn't have any plans to move off IDNA2003 |
| 19:43 | <annevk> | abarth: gotta love that |
| 19:44 | <annevk> | abarth: ah okay, I found some Chromium bug where Mark Davies suggested otherwise, but maybe he was wrong; I guess he's not on Chrome to begin with |
| 19:44 | <annevk> | Davis* |
| 19:45 | <annevk> | -- http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=114375 |
| 19:45 | <abarth> | (looking) |
| 19:46 | <abarth> | annevk: jshin is the person who will make the final decision |
| 19:46 | <abarth> | you can just ask him directly |
| 19:47 | <annevk> | guess I can try that, haven't had much luck in the past when asking about encoding stuff |
| 19:49 | <abarth> | I would be very surprised if Chrome adopted IDNA2008 |
| 19:54 | <annevk> | thus far I know Safari has no immediate plans (and has a list of sites that will break if they do); I know Gecko is waiting for relicensing of some Japanese DNS library they want to adopt that implements IDNA2008; Opera implements IDNA2008 and faces compatibility issues (presumably including those on Safari's private list), Opera's IDNA2008 implementation might not entirely match the spec, they do support IDNA2003 label-separator |
| 19:54 | <annevk> | s for instance; Chrome you just mentioned; no idea about Microsoft |
| 19:57 | <annevk> | http://blogs.msdn.com/b/michkap/archive/2012/09/27/10353657.aspx suggests Microsoft goes with IDNA2008 + UTS #46 for Windows 8 |
| 20:01 | <annevk> | http://blogs.msdn.com/b/michkap/archive/2012/02/27/10273315.aspx looks like IDNs are a world of hurt |
| 20:01 | <annevk> | joy |
| 20:08 | <[tm]> | lovely |
| 20:11 | <annevk> | [tm]: http://mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org/#acknowledgements has an encoding issue |
| 20:11 | <annevk> | [tm]: lacks a comma, too |
| 20:14 | <[tm]> | annevk: thanks will fix it now |
| 20:31 | <zewt> | annevk: IDNs seem like a pretty broken idea |
| 20:32 | <zewt> | i mean, they simply Don't Work(tm) in plaintext, short of evil heuristics |
| 20:32 | <hober> | zewt: i dunno, poopla is pretty awesome. |
| 20:33 | <annevk> | hober: one of those blogs.msdn.com links above suggests poopla might be breaking the rules |
| 20:33 | <zewt> | <- shocked |
| 20:38 | <annevk> | I'm not really shocked that much, just annoyed that nobody figures it out in full detail |
| 20:38 | <annevk> | IDNA2003 was pretty complete, but still did not cover things such as underscores or semicolons in labels |
| 20:39 | <annevk> | the same thing happened with URL, in theory URLs were pretty restricted, but nobody implemented the restrictions and just looked at the separators |
| 20:40 | <annevk> | and then when that became widespread, nobody updated the definition |
| 20:40 | <annevk> | you'd think with a billion people online or so, there must be more than one person that cares about fixing those things |
| 20:40 | <TabAtkins> | Unrelated to URLs, KLINGON STYLE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CayMeza487M (from what I understand, a pretty close translation from Korean to Klingon). |
| 20:43 | <annevk> | haha |
| 20:43 | <annevk> | has the elevator scene and everything |
| 20:43 | <TabAtkins> | yup! the only major scene i see them missing is the fake-snowstorm |
| 20:47 | <[tm]> | annevk: I see Thomas Ford left Opera |
| 20:49 | <annevk> | [tm]: oh? haven't seen him in ages |
| 20:50 | <annevk> | https://twitter.com/thomasford doesn't say much |
| 20:51 | <annevk> | does say he's working for Soundrop, doh |
| 20:51 | <[tm]> | annevk: linkedin |
| 20:51 | <[tm]> | yah |
| 20:51 | <[tm]> | whatever that is |
| 20:51 | <[tm]> | famous? |
| 20:51 | <[tm]> | Hixie: IANA approved the registration for text/html |
| 20:52 | <[tm]> | but the sent back questions on application/microdata+json |
| 20:52 | <danbri_> | got a link for that, re application/microdata+json questions? |
| 20:53 | <[tm]> | danbri_: no, private mail unfortunately |
| 20:53 | <danbri_> | ok, thanks |
| 20:53 | <[tm]> | that seems to be the way they handle these |
| 20:53 | <[tm]> | text/html updates is at http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/text/index.html |
| 20:53 | <[tm]> | http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/text/html |
| 20:54 | danbri_ | finds http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-types/current/msg01722.html |
| 20:54 | <danbri_> | the json-ld comparison seems fair; they're in similar territory |
| 20:55 | <[tm]> | dude subsequently posted to whatwg about that |
| 20:55 | <[tm]> | lemme find the thread |
| 20:56 | <[tm]> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2012Aug/thread.html#msg73 |
| 20:56 | danbri_ | was reading http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-types/current/msg01722.html |
| 20:56 | <[tm]> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2012Aug/thread.html#msg80 |
| 20:56 | <annevk> | man, can't wait when IANA is fully replaced by wiki.whatwg.org or specs |
| 20:57 | <annevk> | for when, even |
| 20:58 | <annevk> | not like it matters http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/text/html exists now |
| 20:59 | <annevk> | [tm]: so no fucks were given about versioning or the DOCTYPE stuff from the RFC? |
| 20:59 | <annevk> | [tm]: so weird! |
| 20:59 | <[tm]> | matters for me personally because it's one less thing i'm supposed to have got done that I have now got done |
| 20:59 | <[tm]> | level cleared |
| 20:59 | <[tm]> | annevk: I just push the buttons |
| 21:00 | <annevk> | bit hit with the ladies |
| 21:00 | <annevk> | big*; damn it |
| 21:01 | <[tm]> | PSY of web standards |
| 21:01 | <[tm]> | gangham style |
| 21:02 | <annevk> | still surprised no fucks were given about any of the things fucks were going to be given over |
| 21:03 | <[tm]> | I'm just always happy to slip stuff under the radar whenever I can |
| 21:03 | <[tm]> | and prepare to fly the "Too late now!" flag as needed later |
| 21:04 | <[tm]> | hey, that worked for the IDN WG |
| 21:05 | <annevk> | oh hey, sorry, we fucked over the primary means of accessing your site, have a nice day now |
| 21:07 | <annevk> | prolly the same guys that deleted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.yu |
| 21:07 | <annevk> | or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.cs |
| 21:08 | <[tm]> | hmm what's e10s? |
| 21:08 | <[tm]> | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=770778 |
| 21:08 | <[tm]> | also https://twitter.com/kripken/status/251754496361914369 looks like good news |
| 21:09 | <[tm]> | "Initial support for websockets in emscripten now in incoming branch (i.e., use the C sockets API, and it uses websockets)" |
| 21:11 | <annevk> | kinda, you'd have to rewrite the server software though |
| 21:14 | <[tm]> | oh |
| 21:16 | <[tm]> | also me finds https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis ( = e10s( |