| 00:18 | <a-ja> | Version: Living ??? |
| 00:21 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: Well, it was merely half a sentence that I could add. (It's already there, commented out.) |
| 00:22 | <GPHemsley> | hsivonen: Could you explain what you mean by "prior art" in this context? The two MIME types you mentioned don't match what Hixie and I were discussing. |
| 00:23 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: my recommendation is to just do the FSAs every now and then |
| 00:23 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: hm? |
| 00:23 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: right |
| 00:26 | <zcorpan> | hmm. reading licenses is not what i wanted to do tonight. :-( |
| 00:26 | <Hixie> | so do something else :-) |
| 00:27 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: My addition of a 'font' type was somewhat back-handed, as in "*if* you have one, then it goes here" |
| 00:27 | <GPHemsley> | never saying that you might be expected to or anything |
| 00:27 | <zcorpan> | the something else will be sleeping. gn |
| 00:32 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: nn |
| 00:32 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: not really sure how it would affect the algorithm. The algorithm is pretty much set in stone by legacy practice. |
| 00:32 | <Hixie> | gotta go. bbl. |
| 00:34 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: It can't be too "legacy" if it includes WebP/WebM |
| 00:34 | <zcorpan> | http://simon.html5.org/dump/compressive/test.html now has a zoom thingie. the containing dir also has more image versions (i think 4:2:0 is interesting). ok now going for real |
| 02:24 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: not clear it should include WebP and WebM, but yeah |
| 02:24 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: most of it is legacy, certainly |
| 03:39 | <wirepair_> | well i'm amazed at how many people have CORS headers completely wrong. |
| 03:40 | <wirepair_> | anyone know when the access-control-allow-origin header went from allowing multiple origins to only allowing a single one in it's header value? |
| 07:21 | <Youdaman> | g'day |
| 08:37 | <hsivonen> | why is the CR discussion expected to be long? |
| 08:37 | <Ms2ger> | Because it's the HTML WG? |
| 08:38 | <hsivonen> | possibly |
| 08:46 | <hsivonen> | still no new memes :-( |
| 08:46 | <Ms2ger> | Clearly everyone is gathered around TimBL |
| 08:47 | <hober> | hsivonen: patches welcome :) |
| 08:49 | <hsivonen> | not a living standard: a living bug list |
| 08:52 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 08:52 | <hober> | night of the living bug list |
| 08:52 | <jgraham> | hsivonen: Maybe the "features at risk" discussion will be long? |
| 08:53 | <jgraham> | At least I plan to object to some of them |
| 08:53 | <hober> | jgraham: it probably should be, given how random the current list is |
| 08:53 | <Ms2ger> | Just mark everything at risk |
| 08:53 | <hsivonen> | what's the id thing about? |
| 08:57 | <annevk> | I think MIME Sniffing -> MIME makes sense to do at some point |
| 08:57 | <annevk> | MIME RFCs are way out of date |
| 08:57 | <hsivonen> | You know you don't need to maximize the IETF's anger |
| 08:59 | <hsivonen> | this meeting could go much faster |
| 09:00 | jgraham | pushes some WebSockets tests that need to be updated |
| 09:00 | <jgraham> | If anyone is bored |
| 09:00 | <jgraham> | Updated == converted to testharness |
| 09:00 | <jgraham> | (and changing the port) |
| 09:00 | <hsivonen> | like: "two impls missing. not gonna make it through CR. problem deferred for now" |
| 09:01 | <hsivonen> | isn't it a no-brainer to mark scoped beign at risk? |
| 09:01 | <Ms2ger> | No |
| 09:01 | <hsivonen> | why do we need to talk about it? |
| 09:03 | <Ms2ger> | To make the irrelevant people in the HTMLWG feel they have the control they wanted |
| 09:03 | <hober> | hsivonen: yes, it's a total no-brainer to mark <style scoped> at risk |
| 09:04 | <othermaciej> | style scoped is already on the draft at-risk list |
| 09:04 | <othermaciej> | the only reason to discuss it is because the css wg had a cow about it |
| 09:04 | <othermaciej> | thus http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/post/34630866378/this-space-intentionally-left-blank |
| 10:33 | <hsivonen> | does anyone here have a computer with jpegtran on it? |
| 10:33 | <hsivonen> | it would be interesting to convert a jpeg image to arithmetic coding and see if browsers happen to support that already |
| 10:38 | <hsivonen> | zcorpan: did you test jpeg arithmetic coding yesterday? |
| 10:38 | <zcorpan> | hsivonen: i'm not sure what that means |
| 10:40 | <hsivonen> | jpeg can use huffman coding or arithmetic coding for the entropy coding scheme. arithmetic is more efficient but pretty much everyone uses huffman for historical royalty reasons |
| 10:40 | <hsivonen> | jpegtran lets you looslessly convert between the two |
| 10:41 | <hsivonen> | I'm interested in knowing if browsers support arithmetic coding as side effect of updating libjpeg after aritmetic coding became RF |
| 10:43 | hsivonen | regrets not bringing a laptop now |
| 10:43 | <hsivonen> | maybe I can run jpegtran in the cloud |
| 10:45 | jgraham | now has jpegtran |
| 10:52 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: can generate an arithmetic code jpeg and see if browsers render it? |
| 10:54 | <jgraham> | http://hoppipolla.co.uk/410/test.jpg <- doesn't work for me |
| 10:55 | <jgraham> | (works locally in gimp) |
| 11:07 | <hsivonen> | jgraham: thanks. oh well. need to test IE still, but no free ride here :-( |
| 11:24 | <hsivonen> | xforms mentioned |
| 11:25 | <MikeSmith> | awaken John Boyer |
| 11:33 | <annevk> | http://notifications.spec.whatwg.org/ |
| 11:33 | <annevk> | http://quirks.spec.whatwg.org/ is also there, but zcorpan needs to commit some cleanup |
| 11:33 | <annevk> | both are synced from GitHub per usual |
| 11:33 | <hober> | word |
| 11:33 | <annevk> | Hixie: ^^ /specs/ can be updated now |
| 11:34 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: he's around? |
| 11:34 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: no that's why I said "awaken" |
| 11:34 | <annevk> | ah |
| 11:36 | <Ms2ger> | hsivonen, is that a kind of bingo? |
| 11:37 | <hsivonen> | Ms2ger: yes |
| 11:39 | <jgraham> | "we are writing a spec here for HTML, not for the entire browser environment" |
| 11:41 | <zcorpan> | annevk: thanks |
| 11:44 | <annevk> | I guess it's dinner time right? |
| 11:44 | <annevk> | euh lunch |
| 11:44 | <annevk> | with wine |
| 11:44 | <annevk> | hmmm |
| 11:46 | <zcorpan> | SGML-based templates? |
| 13:07 | <zcorpan> | annevk: do we want to move file-bug.js out of the quirks repo? |
| 13:08 | <annevk> | zcorpan: where should we put it? |
| 13:08 | <Ms2ger> | zcorpan, sounds like a sensible thing to do |
| 13:08 | <Ms2ger> | A repo of its own? |
| 13:08 | <annevk> | I meant which server |
| 13:08 | <zcorpan> | dunno, maybe a new repo and new subdomain on *.whatwg.org for common resources like scripts |
| 13:09 | <zcorpan> | maybe move dfn.js etc there as well |
| 13:09 | <annevk> | more subdomains |
| 13:09 | <annevk> | "resources"? |
| 13:09 | <annevk> | wfm |
| 13:09 | <Ms2ger> | cdn.whatwg.org |
| 13:09 | <annevk> | heh |
| 13:10 | <annevk> | so many DNS requests |
| 13:10 | <annevk> | Steve Souders would not be impressed |
| 14:01 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: We have pywebsocket running on port 80? |
| 14:02 | <MikeSmith> | yes |
| 14:02 | <MikeSmith> | if it does not seem to be working correctly lemme know |
| 14:02 | <MikeSmith> | but I would think that for you to use it i'd need to install whatever handler you are using for your tests |
| 14:02 | <jgraham> | No, idea, just need to change a bunch of 8007s to 80s |
| 14:03 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 14:03 | <jgraham> | Yeah, we have a bunch of handlers zcorpan is reviewing |
| 14:03 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 14:04 | <zcorpan> | the pywebsocket on w3c-test.org is using the apache module rather than standalone.py, right? |
| 14:06 | <darobin> | did we get anywhere with the discussion on standardising on something for the server side of testing? |
| 14:08 | GPHemsley | wonders why Notifications uses [LANG] instead of [BCP47] |
| 14:09 | <GPHemsley> | Incidentally, quirks. does not appear to be working. Unless that's what you meant by "zcorpan needs to commit some cleanup", annevk. |
| 14:10 | <GPHemsley> | BTW: Is anyone going to the IETF conference in Atlanta next week? |
| 14:10 | <zcorpan> | GPHemsley: what is not working? |
| 14:10 | <jgraham> | darobin: I spoke with sicking and hsivonen a bit, so I have a better grasp of Mozilla's requirements |
| 14:10 | <GPHemsley> | zcorpan: The domain didn't resolve for me |
| 14:10 | <jgraham> | But we need to loop in the WebKit people of various kinds |
| 14:10 | <GPHemsley> | oh |
| 14:10 | <GPHemsley> | nevermind |
| 14:10 | <GPHemsley> | works now |
| 14:11 | <zcorpan> | ok. maybe a dns problem previously, since it was a new subdomain. |
| 14:11 | <jgraham> | And then we need to find the releng people (or ateam?) at Moz. |
| 14:11 | <darobin> | jgraham: ok, cool — will you post some form of plan or some such to test-infra? |
| 14:11 | <jgraham> | Yeah |
| 14:11 | <darobin> | coolness |
| 14:25 | <jgraham> | MikeSmith: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webapps/file/5b8b8f36e272/WebSockets/tests/submissions/Opera/handlers |
| 14:25 | <jgraham> | Dunno what you have to do with them |
| 14:26 | <MikeSmith> | jgraham: me looking nwo |
| 14:27 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: so the tests expect the resources to be available at the root when accessing over ws: or wss: |
| 14:27 | <MikeSmith> | OK think I will symlink them to where they expected to be |
| 14:27 | <zcorpan> | that can be changed if we want, we need to change the port anyway |
| 14:29 | <jgraham> | Yeah, if you need the tests to change it isn't a problem |
| 14:29 | <jgraham> | Have a metric shitload of changes to make anyway |
| 14:29 | <MikeSmith> | I think I can manage to get them in the root |
| 14:34 | <MikeSmith> | ok it's currently configured to look for them under /ws |
| 14:35 | <jgraham> | so e.g. /ws/echo? |
| 14:35 | <jgraham> | Thanks |
| 14:36 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 14:36 | <MikeSmith> | config file has this: |
| 14:37 | <MikeSmith> | PythonOption mod_pywebsocket.handler_root /var/www |
| 14:37 | <MikeSmith> | PythonOption mod_pywebsocket.handler_scan /var/www/ws |
| 14:37 | <MikeSmith> | I assumed those two values might need to be different |
| 14:38 | <MikeSmith> | but I guess on your test server they must be set to the same |
| 14:38 | <MikeSmith> | if your server's looking for the handlers in the root |
| 14:38 | <MikeSmith> | so I can change it to that too if you want |
| 14:38 | <MikeSmith> | or leave it as-is and you change your tests to look in /ws instead |
| 14:39 | <zcorpan> | i get an error with make: |
| 14:39 | <zcorpan> | [Errno 20] Not a directory: 'data/specs.json' |
| 14:39 | <zcorpan> | make: *** [Overview.html] Error 1 |
| 14:39 | <zcorpan> | was there some change to anolis? |
| 14:48 | <GPHemsley> | Argh, the definition-lookup script doesn't work on the multipage version of HTML. |
| 14:50 | <GPHemsley> | Double argh... the real list is really long ;_l |
| 14:50 | <GPHemsley> | (apparently my left eye has a pencil stuck in it) |
| 15:06 | <annevk> | zcorpan: i'll fix that up |
| 15:10 | <annevk> | zcorpan: actually, I'll let you fix that up |
| 15:11 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: ping |
| 15:11 | <annevk> | zcorpan: just copy the style from other repositories, and clone xref |
| 15:17 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: Regarding bug 19799, would it be enough to define "resource header" (and perhaps the "read the resource header" algorithm) outside of the main sniffing algorithm? |
| 15:17 | <zcorpan> | good news everyone http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Nov/0002.html |
| 15:24 | <miketaylr> | annevk: http://miketaylr.com/post/bc3c5669.png weird title |
| 15:25 | <annevk> | miketaylr: http://fullscreen.spec.whatwg.org/ does not have this problem |
| 15:25 | <miketaylr> | heh, ok |
| 15:26 | <annevk> | http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/fullscreen for some reason MikeSmith reverted the move |
| 15:27 | <annevk> | anyway, nobody is maintaining the W3C copy afaik |
| 15:27 | <zcorpan> | miketaylr: i complained about the robots.txt on dvcs.w3.org and w3.org before but maybe nothing happened |
| 15:27 | <miketaylr> | the lsd.taxonconcept.org looks might suspicious too, zcorpan |
| 15:28 | <miketaylr> | s/might/mighty/ |
| 15:28 | <annevk> | zcorpan: see logs btw |
| 15:28 | <zcorpan> | annevk: what style, specifically? |
| 15:28 | <MikeSmith> | wtf where did the lsd.taxconcept.org come from |
| 15:28 | <annevk> | zcorpan: so clone whatwg/xref and put it next to whatwg/quirks |
| 15:29 | <annevk> | zcorpan: then change the data/ paths to ../xref/ paths |
| 15:29 | <miketaylr> | h4x |
| 15:29 | <MikeSmith> | miketaylr: ↑ |
| 15:29 | <annevk> | zcorpan: be happy |
| 15:29 | <miketaylr> | MikeSmith: just a google search |
| 15:29 | <zcorpan> | annevk: i cloned xref and made a symlink of data/ to ../xref/ |
| 15:30 | <annevk> | zcorpan: i'd prefer if it you did something that worked for other working with your repo |
| 15:30 | <annevk> | others* |
| 15:30 | <karlcow> | https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=taxonconcept+fullscreen+&hl=en&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...2772.7948.0.8318.15.15.0.0.0.0.284.1359.8j4j1.13.0...0.0...1c.1.FhyoTQ-Htf4&oq=taxonconcept+fullscreen+ |
| 15:31 | <miketaylr> | MikeSmith: check .htaccess for anything suspicious? |
| 15:33 | <zcorpan> | annevk: fair enough. i still get the same error though, which is weird... ([Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'data/specs.json') |
| 15:33 | <zcorpan> | actually not the same error |
| 15:33 | <zcorpan> | but still weird |
| 15:34 | <annevk> | zcorpan: ah |
| 15:34 | <annevk> | zcorpan: you need to pass a new parameter |
| 15:34 | <annevk> | --xref="../xref" |
| 15:35 | <annevk> | and maybe update Anolis? |
| 15:35 | <zcorpan> | ok |
| 15:35 | <annevk> | this was not configurable before; Anolis kind of required a separate xref repo per spec :/ |
| 15:35 | <karlcow> | MikeSmith: it might be something done on Google side too |
| 15:36 | <MikeSmith> | fuck it's some sparql thing |
| 15:36 | <MikeSmith> | sparql leak |
| 15:37 | <karlcow> | it seems |
| 15:37 | <annevk> | i'm kinda amused by this |
| 15:37 | <annevk> | sorry |
| 15:37 | karlcow | thought for a few seconds that annevk was working for the Semantic Web in secret ;) |
| 15:37 | <MikeSmith> | https://www.google.com/search?&q=lsd.taxonconcept.org |
| 15:39 | <karlcow> | Now, I wonder how Google creates its search results list. |
| 15:39 | <karlcow> | maybe a bug in their code |
| 15:39 | <MikeSmith> | karlcow: I guess probably made the mercurial server a "sparql endpoint" |
| 15:39 | <MikeSmith> | wha |
| 15:39 | <MikeSmith> | whatever that is |
| 15:40 | <miketaylr> | it's cool, let's all just use duckduckgo and pretend it never happened |
| 15:40 | <karlcow> | \o/ |
| 15:40 | <MikeSmith> | I can fix the robots.txt |
| 15:40 | <MikeSmith> | at least |
| 15:40 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: if you can remind me what it should have |
| 15:40 | <MikeSmith> | or not have |
| 15:41 | <karlcow> | I can fix the robots. Txt at least. |
| 15:43 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: remove Disallow: /Bugs/ from http://www.w3.org/robots.txt |
| 15:44 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: and http://dvcs.w3.org/robots.txt disallows everything which is not so nice |
| 15:45 | <zcorpan> | unless you're w3c-checklink |
| 15:45 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: ah I can't do it for www.w3.org but I can for dvcs.w3.org |
| 15:46 | <zcorpan> | i tried reinstalling anolis which appeared to succeed but i still get the same error message, so i guess it uses the old anolis. |
| 15:47 | <zcorpan> | $ anolis --version |
| 15:47 | <zcorpan> | anolis 1.2pre |
| 15:48 | <zcorpan> | --help says there's an --xref option |
| 15:50 | <zcorpan> | so the error now is [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '../xref--w3c-shortname=quirks-mode/specs.json' |
| 15:51 | <annevk> | where is xref located? |
| 15:51 | <annevk> | ../xref relative to the dir? |
| 15:51 | <zcorpan> | oh i made a mistake in MakeFile |
| 15:52 | <annevk> | yeah, looks like there's no space there |
| 15:52 | <annevk> | you won't need w3c-shortname and such either anymore |
| 15:52 | <annevk> | other Makefiles are much much shorter |
| 15:56 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: fixed dvcs.w3.org robots.txt |
| 15:58 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: thanks |
| 15:59 | <zcorpan> | ok checked in an initial cleanup |
| 16:13 | <hsivonen> | 386 opportunity: see first comment at https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/11/html5-mythbusting/ |
| 16:20 | zcorpan | tweaked the logo of http://quirks.spec.whatwg.org/ |
| 16:21 | <hober> | zcorpan: nice |
| 16:21 | <zcorpan> | hober: thanks |
| 16:22 | <hober> | what's with the margin-bottom: 30% on <body>? |
| 16:23 | <zcorpan> | i think that was added to solve the problem of linking to things that are near the end of the page in the multipage version of html, and it wasn't obvious what was linked to when it wasn't aligned with the top of the page |
| 16:23 | <zcorpan> | but now we have highlighting for that, so maybe the margin is unnecessary |
| 16:23 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: ^ |
| 16:25 | <zcorpan> | #html-wg discusses EME API blocking the UI thread |
| 16:27 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: can you make http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/quirks-mode/raw-file/tip/Overview.html redirect to http://quirks.spec.whatwg.org/ please? |
| 16:28 | <zcorpan> | or can i do that myself? |
| 16:28 | <MikeSmith> | yeah you can with an .htaccess file I think |
| 16:29 | <zcorpan> | should i kill the files in the hg repo? |
| 16:33 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: yeah |
| 16:34 | <MikeSmith> | no need to keep them there |
| 16:34 | <MikeSmith> | as far as I can see |
| 16:34 | <MikeSmith> | oh unless you want to preserve the history |
| 16:35 | <MikeSmith> | hsivonen: I'm noticing that the validator code's not yet checking rel values on area element |
| 16:35 | <MikeSmith> | as it now does for the link and a elements |
| 16:35 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: the history is in github |
| 16:35 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 16:36 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: the tests are there and are mirrored on w3c-test.org, so maybe i should have that be the canonical place for the tests |
| 16:36 | <MikeSmith> | yeah that'd make sense |
| 16:43 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: i tried and failed. :-/ http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/quirks-mode/file/1ef6ee6f995f/.htaccess http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/quirks-mode/raw-file/tip/Overview.html |
| 16:44 | <MikeSmith> | ok man |
| 16:44 | <MikeSmith> | will take a look |
| 16:46 | <zcorpan> | cheers |
| 16:52 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/ needs updating of the quirks link |
| 21:09 | <Hixie> | fwiw, re the cdn.whatwg.org idea, i already use images.whatwg.org or some such for the images in the whatwg spec |
| 21:09 | <Hixie> | whatwg.org/specs is updated |
| 21:09 | <Hixie> | and you guys are cracking me up with your logo variants, love it |
| 21:10 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: pong |
| 21:10 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: Nevermind, I went ahead with what I said. :P |
| 21:10 | <Hixie> | k |
| 21:11 | GPHemsley | wonders how long it takes DreamHost to fully set up a new subdomain... |
| 21:12 | GPHemsley | doesn't remember it taking this long. |
| 21:12 | <Hixie> | usually just a few minutes |
| 21:15 | Hixie | finds a random subdirectory on his account called whatwg.org that is empty of useful files |
| 21:15 | <Hixie> | nothing quite like the nervousness of typing "rm -rf whatwg.org" |
| 21:15 | <Hixie> | on the live webserver |
| 21:15 | <GPHemsley> | :) |
| 21:16 | <GPHemsley> | Did you at one point move from whatwg.org to www.whatwg.org? |
| 21:16 | <Hixie> | no, no idea what this directory was for |
| 21:16 | <Hixie> | spec.whatwg.org was pointing to it though |
| 21:17 | <GPHemsley> | oh, yes |
| 21:17 | <GPHemsley> | I became quite familiar with that directory |
| 21:17 | <Hixie> | hm? |
| 21:17 | <Hixie> | oh |
| 21:17 | <Hixie> | right |
| 21:17 | <GPHemsley> | kept wishing for something to show up |
| 21:17 | <Hixie> | hopefulyl should be fixed now |
| 21:18 | <GPHemsley> | if by "fixed" you mean "404ing" |
| 21:18 | <Hixie> | yeah well |
| 21:18 | <Hixie> | see above |
| 21:18 | <Hixie> | * GPHemsley wonders how long it takes DreamHost to fully set up a new subdomain... |
| 21:18 | <GPHemsley> | ah |
| 21:18 | <GPHemsley> | heh |
| 21:23 | <GPHemsley> | well, it's a coming soon page now |
| 21:23 | <GPHemsley> | I, on the other hand, have nothing |
| 21:24 | <GPHemsley> | Does anyone else think Google 404 pages are remarkably unhelpful, considering what Google is? |
| 21:26 | <GPHemsley> | (oh, but I just noticed the page title is funny-ish) |
| 21:47 | <GPHemsley> | "In case you were wondering, the HTTP specification states that, in |
| 21:47 | <GPHemsley> | the case of duplicates, the client should always use the last value specified |
| 21:47 | <GPHemsley> | for that duplicate header." |
| 21:47 | <GPHemsley> | Anyone know what section such a statement might be? |
| 21:48 | <Ms2ger> | An imaginary one? |
| 21:48 | <Hixie> | that can't be right |
| 21:48 | <Hixie> | duplicate Link: or Set-Cookie: headers for example |
| 21:50 | <GPHemsley> | Yeah, well, I assumed it was referring to the ones that don't allow having multiple instances |
| 21:50 | <GPHemsley> | but I was looking for this the other day, and all indications were that the HTTP spec didn't say what to do |
| 21:55 | <GPHemsley> | hmm... DNS has finally come around, but I still have a bad_httpd_conf error :/ |
| 21:55 | <GPHemsley> | not that anyone here particularly cares.. |
| 22:03 | <GPHemsley> | aha! |
| 22:11 | <Hixie> | hmm |
| 22:37 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: the changes to mimesniff seem positive, though it's a bit ambiguous which resource things refer to since none of the algorithms take a resource as an argument as far as i can tell :-) |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | Also the "rules for distinguishing if a resource is text or binary" don't seem to return anything, instead they set the return value of another algorithm? Not sure I follow |
| 23:16 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: If the text/binary algorithm doesn't return text, it treats it as the same as unknown |
| 23:23 | <Hixie> | that wasn't clear when i was reading it |
| 23:23 | <Hixie> | it didn't seem to return anything |
| 23:26 | <GPHemsley> | Alright, I'll fix that when I edit them all to return values instead |
| 23:26 | <GPHemsley> | Incidentally, I wonder where this data came from, as Gecko doesn't seem to do any of it |
| 23:26 | <GPHemsley> | (which is a very broad statement to make from only 3 simple tests) |
| 23:31 | <GPHemsley> | e.g. Gecko simply prompts for download when a file is served as unknown/unknown |
| 23:31 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: Did you put anything at spec.whatwg.org? |
| 23:33 | <zcorpan> | i heared complaints today that the ".spec" part of our urls are useless |
| 23:35 | <GPHemsley> | "PostScript is a registered trademark of Adobe Systems, Inc. Use of |
| 23:35 | <GPHemsley> | the MIME media type "application/postscript" implies recognition of |
| 23:35 | <GPHemsley> | that trademark and all the rights it entails." |
| 23:35 | GPHemsley | sighs |
| 23:35 | <zewt> | zcorpan: well, they *are* useless to readers; but that's not who they're for |
| 23:35 | <zewt> | afaik it's just there to make administration easier |
| 23:36 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: what does it take to kill the ".spec" part? |
| 23:37 | <zewt> | guessing "a reason to" would be the first step :) |
| 23:37 | <zcorpan> | reason being that it's useless and is more annoying to type compared to url.whatwg.org |
| 23:38 | <zewt> | typing out urls? weird :) |
| 23:38 | <GPHemsley> | isn't the better question "how can we make spec.whatwg.org useful?"? |
| 23:38 | <zcorpan> | GPHemsley: i don't mind having spec.whatwg.org be useful but that doesn't change the other thing |
| 23:39 | <GPHemsley> | well, it does well to separate spec-related subdomains from others |
| 23:39 | <GPHemsley> | IMO |
| 23:39 | <zewt> | with w3's URLs being things like "http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/FileAPI/";, this seems like a minor complaint, heh |
| 23:40 | <zcorpan> | sure |
| 23:40 | <zcorpan> | what we have now is almost convenient enough to type the whole url |
| 23:40 | <zcorpan> | but can be taken a step further |
| 23:40 | GPHemsley | is just beginning to realize just how much of a mess the whole MIME type situation is, independent of content sniffing. |
| 23:41 | <GPHemsley> | it'd be even more convenient to just have url.org |
| 23:41 | <GPHemsley> | but, you know.. |
| 23:41 | <zcorpan> | or just url. but let's look at what's reasonable here |
| 23:41 | <zewt> | zcorpan: i don't know if it's worth the time of whoever would have to do it (especially if it's hixie), but i guess whatwg.org/url could just be a redirect to url.spec.whatwg.org |
| 23:42 | <zcorpan> | zewt: that's fair |
| 23:42 | <zewt> | which would make it easier to type, without changing the actual domain organization (which I believe is that way for a reason) |
| 23:42 | <GPHemsley> | zcorpan: Well, that's my point. I think it's perfectly reasonable to have all the specs under spec.whatwg.org |
| 23:43 | <GPHemsley> | It's not like it's url.annevk.spec.whatwg.org or something |
| 23:43 | <GPHemsley> | It's telling you that the WHATWG has a spec that documents URLs |
| 23:44 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: .spec. is needed because there's dozens of other subdomains and i don't want to get confused as to what's a spec and what isn't |
| 23:44 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: anyway, the whole point of these urls is you only ever type them once |
| 23:44 | <GPHemsley> | what if we wanted a spec that was called 'images'? |
| 23:44 | <GPHemsley> | exactly |
| 23:44 | <zcorpan> | ok |
| 23:45 | <Hixie> | i'm absolutely loving that i type "mi" and my browser autocompletes it to "mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org" |
| 23:45 | <Hixie> | can definitely do the redirects zewt suggests, though |
| 23:45 | <zewt> | heh i gave up on browser autocomplete |
| 23:46 | <zewt> | i type "goog" in FF and it gives me something other than google.com, probably the most common thing i load (at least Chrome gets this one right, though I wonder if that one's a special case) |
| 23:46 | <Hixie> | oh christ, i typoed the directory for spec.whatwg.org _again_ |
| 23:46 | <zcorpan> | specs? |
| 23:47 | Hixie | types "rm -rf whatwg.org" for the second time today, this time even closer to the actualy whatwg directory... |
| 23:47 | <Hixie> | specs? |
| 23:48 | <zcorpan> | spec vs specs appears to be a common mistake with these urls, i think |
| 23:48 | <Hixie> | specs.whatwg.org redirects to spec.whatwg.org; doing the others is possible but more timeconsuming so i haven't done it yet |
| 23:48 | <zcorpan> | ah, nice |
| 23:48 | <zewt> | Hixie: heh, when I have to do something like that, I tend to "mv whatwg.org probably-garbage" first, then double-check that everything is what I think it is, so I never have to type things like "rm -rf important-sounding-directory-name" |
| 23:50 | <Hixie> | i do "ls -alR foo", check the output, them change "ls -alR" to "rm -rf" by editing the command line |
| 23:51 | <zewt> | does anyone following this HTML template stuff know what "embedding scripts in templates" even means? that seems more like a widget-y feature than a template feature |
| 23:52 | <zewt> | (trying to avoid the noise of asking on the thread when I imagine it's been discussed already) |
| 23:53 | <GPHemsley> | zewt: Why do you type 'goog' when you can just have whatever you type automatically sent as a search? |
| 23:53 | <zewt> | because firefox is slooow at that |
| 23:53 | <GPHemsley> | ? |
| 23:53 | <Hixie> | fyi http://damowmow.com/temp/whatwg-urls |
| 23:53 | <zewt> | i don't really know why; i suspect it may be trying to DNS my search first, or something silly like that |
| 23:54 | <GPHemsley> | I've been doing it for years without a problem |
| 23:54 | <GPHemsley> | so yeah, perhaps |
| 23:54 | <zewt> | chrome is way faster at that for me |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: see the url above |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: hopefully that helps people out |
| 23:54 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: doesn't the first two lines mean that you get redirected twice? |
| 23:54 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: Shouldn't you have /specs/*, too? |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: ? |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: ? |
| 23:55 | <GPHemsley> | whatwg.org/specs/url |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | who's typing that when you can type whatwg.org/url |
| 23:55 | <GPHemsley> | people who forget the motto of WHATWG ;) |
| 23:55 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: /principles get redirected to /position-paper which gets redirected to /2004/04/webapps-cdf-ws/papers/opera.html |
| 23:56 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: or is apache smart enough to redirect to the final url directly? |
| 23:57 | <GPHemsley> | also, I think that anyone relying on the one-letter URLs has some issue with their autocomplete |
| 23:57 | <GPHemsley> | but whatever |
| 23:57 | <GPHemsley> | I don't mind typing |
| 23:57 | <Hixie> | zcorpan: ah, yeah. whatever. :-) |
| 23:57 | <GPHemsley> | poor fetch |
| 23:58 | <zcorpan> | Hixie: thanks for the redirects |
| 23:58 | <Hixie> | (i added /cors for /fetch as well btw) |
| 23:58 | <zewt> | zcorpan: that's intentional, hixie just wants to stress test the "fetch" algorithm |
| 23:58 | <Hixie> | ok i gotta go. i may or may not do .specs. redirects one day. |
| 23:58 | <Hixie> | probably not soon though. |
| 23:58 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: is f = fullscreen new or existing? |
| 23:58 | <Hixie> | later |
| 23:58 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: most of these are new from just now |
| 23:59 | GPHemsley | recommends fs |
