| 00:02 | <GPHemsley> | and f for fetch |
| 00:15 | <GPHemsley> | hmm |
| 00:15 | <GPHemsley> | it appears that Gecko does not do any sniffing at all—at least, not for GIFs |
| 00:16 | <GPHemsley> | hmm |
| 00:16 | <GPHemsley> | opera.com just sent me Japanese |
| 00:17 | <GPHemsley> | ...apparently I had a language cookie set |
| 00:17 | <GPHemsley> | weird |
| 00:21 | <GPHemsley> | well, this lack of sniffing in no engine but Gecko is gonna make testing/debugging kinda annoying |
| 00:27 | <GPHemsley> | on the other hand, http://damowmow.com/temp/ is good for testing what happens when the server doesn't send a Content-Type header |
| 00:29 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: s/write/right/ in your WebVTT comment commit |
| 06:46 | <wirepair_> | anyone here familiar with firefox's processing of CSP rules? |
| 08:27 | <annevk> | so people, GitHub is sponsoring WHATWG! |
| 08:27 | <annevk> | we got bronze for life :-) |
| 08:27 | <annevk> | so I guess I'll make a private repo for the info on the twitter accounts in due course |
| 08:28 | <annevk> | does that make sense? |
| 08:31 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: I might end up implementing Encoding (or not) in rust rather than python |
| 08:31 | <annevk> | so are we going to use images.whatwg.org? |
| 08:32 | <SimonSapin> | more fun |
| 08:32 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: fair enough :) |
| 08:32 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: rockin |
| 08:47 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: what's the W3C Team archive list? |
| 08:47 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: w3t-archive? |
| 08:50 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: yeah |
| 08:54 | <annevk> | posted a minor rant there |
| 09:26 | <othermaciej> | oh man there are some good new memes up |
| 09:37 | <annevk> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/2012Nov/0000.html is interesting |
| 09:52 | <karlcow> | annevk: yup |
| 09:52 | <smaug____> | is hallvord ever here? |
| 09:53 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: uh, what? Is this ignoring your work while doing the same? |
| 09:53 | <karlcow> | SimonSapin: I don't think so. |
| 09:55 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: if it is, that's fine |
| 09:55 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: curious where we'll end up |
| 09:55 | <karlcow> | yes me too. Same than annevk. |
| 09:56 | <karlcow> | Whatever the outcomes, if in the end there's something which is better, whatever it is. |
| 09:56 | <karlcow> | The communities win. |
| 10:00 | <SimonSapin> | I just spent two hours writing up a 600-words email for www-style … |
| 10:08 | <jgraham> | smaug____: I think I might have seen hallvord here before |
| 10:08 | <jgraham> | But not often at least |
| 10:19 | <konza> | Hi all, I have subscribed to the mailing list. Can any one explain how can I contribute to the development. By contributing i mean to write code.. Can any one explain |
| 10:21 | <annevk> | konza: what are your interests? |
| 10:22 | <konza> | annevk, I love coding.. :) Could you please explain your question a bit? |
| 10:24 | <annevk> | konza: well WHATWG doesn't do a lot of coding (other than in English), so I was wondering why you joined the mailing list |
| 10:24 | <annevk> | like what you want to contribute to |
| 10:25 | <konza> | annevk, I thought some open source works are also done by this group |
| 10:26 | <annevk> | well yeah, I suppose, some of us work on http://code.google.com/p/html5lib/ |
| 10:27 | <annevk> | but I suspect you might be better of contributing to Gecko/WebKit/Chromium if you like to work on code related to what we work on |
| 10:27 | <Ms2ger> | Let's just make that Gecko :) |
| 10:33 | <smaug____> | ++Ms2ger |
| 10:34 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan, jgraham : so I can add the symlinks for those websocket tests now |
| 10:35 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: ok |
| 10:35 | <zcorpan> | thanks |
| 10:35 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: including I will clobber the existing echo test that's there with a symlink to the one in the repo |
| 10:36 | <MikeSmith> | which I assume will not break anything |
| 10:36 | <MikeSmith> | for you guys |
| 10:36 | <MikeSmith> | since your tests are relying on the echo service you have there |
| 10:36 | <zcorpan> | the new one presumably works for us. i don't know what the existing one looks like or what uses it currently |
| 10:36 | <jgraham> | I think our echo is probably the default |
| 10:37 | <MikeSmith> | ah OK |
| 10:37 | <MikeSmith> | yeah it's likely the default I guess |
| 10:37 | <jgraham> | I just copied all the files we had in our handler directory that seemd to be referenced |
| 10:37 | <MikeSmith> | hai |
| 10:41 | <zcorpan> | "can i get two weeks?" "NO." |
| 10:43 | <konza> | annevk, can you please give the full url of gecko |
| 10:43 | <annevk> | konza: http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/ I suppose |
| 10:44 | <konza> | annevk, thanks |
| 10:45 | <konza> | annevk, pm? |
| 10:45 | <annevk> | sure |
| 10:49 | <hsivonen> | http://whatcanidoformozilla.org/ |
| 10:49 | <konza> | thanks hsivonen |
| 10:56 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan, jgraham : OK all those handlers should now be reachable at http://w3c-test.org/ws |
| 10:57 | <MikeSmith> | if not lemme know |
| 10:57 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: did you mean ws://w3c-test.org/ ? |
| 10:57 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 10:58 | <zcorpan> | ok, excellent |
| 10:58 | <MikeSmith> | well ws: instead of http: |
| 10:58 | <MikeSmith> | you want them at the root? I thought you had changed your tests to look for them under /ws |
| 11:01 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: my error console for http://w3c-test.org/webapps/WebSockets/tests/submissions/Opera/interfaces/WebSocket/send/006.html says "WebSocket handshake failure, invalid response code '404'. " |
| 11:01 | <zcorpan> | MikeSmith: no the tests have /ws/ already, i didn't know that was changed |
| 11:02 | <MikeSmith> | ok will try to take a look at the server logs |
| 11:06 | <zcorpan> | q? |
| 11:06 | <zcorpan> | oops |
| 11:08 | <annevk> | so I walked in the HTML WG meeting to get some AC power |
| 11:09 | <annevk> | hsivonen just suggested to put everything "at risk" and undefine all the things when the time comes (kind of) |
| 11:11 | <hsivonen> | I asked what's the procedural reason not to |
| 11:12 | <hsivonen> | I didn't really suggest it |
| 11:12 | <MikeSmith> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ietf-w3c/2012Sep/thread.html#msg4 |
| 11:12 | MikeSmith | ah wait that's not it |
| 11:13 | <MikeSmith> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18975 |
| 11:13 | <MikeSmith> | -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18975 registerContentHanlder and registerProtocolHandler open huge security and privacy holes (bug raised by Larry Masinter) |
| 11:14 | <smaug____> | annevk: sounds like a fun meeting |
| 11:14 | <smaug____> | apparently discussions about the process ? |
| 11:14 | <annevk> | it's about CR exit criteria |
| 11:14 | <annevk> | since most of HTML is not interoperable if you look at the details, they're in kind of a fit |
| 11:14 | <MikeSmith> | ah wrong channel |
| 11:15 | <annevk> | so they're looking for loopholes |
| 11:15 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: sorry for the distraction :) |
| 11:16 | jgraham | thinks it is a bad idea to point out that we will not get interoperability on navigation |
| 11:16 | <Ms2ger> | Why's that? |
| 11:17 | <jgraham> | Or maybe I should just say that we will never get two complete implementations |
| 12:11 | <karlcow> | hmmm I had a parse error for Robin's email |
| 12:11 | <karlcow> | "or more precisely for a way of specifying isolates more powerful than <bdi> one possible implementation of which could rely on the dir attribute." |
| 12:12 | <karlcow> | — http://www.w3.org/mid/5093A450.5000107⊙wo |
| 13:12 | <karlcow> | https://tech.dropbox.com/2012/10/caching-in-theory-and-practice/ |
| 13:19 | <annevk> | "it's a waste of time" "any other comments?" |
| 13:19 | <annevk> | this meeting is hilarious |
| 14:03 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: this xml-stylesheet is x3d all over again |
| 14:03 | <hsivonen> | you notes trigger concern |
| 14:28 | <annevk> | http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=1123 |
| 14:28 | <annevk> | wtf |
| 14:28 | <annevk> | all the rejected errata refers to each other for being rejected and nothing then addresses the problems |
| 14:29 | <annevk> | and how and http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1123 be the latest RFC for host names anyway? |
| 14:30 | <annevk> | and just look at the patchwork that is http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1035 |
| 14:30 | <annevk> | you can't just go in and get an understanding of how this works |
| 14:31 | <annevk> | that's no documentation of the web architecture if you ask me |
| 14:31 | <karlcow> | I guess because nobody has been masochistic enough to touch hostnames spec ;) |
| 14:32 | <annevk> | pussies |
| 14:32 | <karlcow> | macho ;) |
| 14:33 | <annevk> | pew pew |
| 14:36 | <hober> | Scooby Doo: Special (Process) Victims Unit |
| 14:36 | <hober> | *dun dun* |
| 14:37 | <darobin> | at the end of the day we'll find out that it was just a dishonest land developer dressing up a Hixie to scare the locals |
| 14:37 | <darobin> | into selling their land |
| 14:38 | <karlcow> | :D |
| 14:38 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 14:39 | <GPHemsley> | :) |
| 15:20 | karlcow | found an oldie http://www.snee.com/xml/a-href.html |
| 15:23 | <MikeSmith> | karlcow: interesting |
| 15:24 | <karlcow> | It was a link in my today 10 years old blog post. It survived. |
| 15:25 | <karlcow> | It's kind of encouraging some of the things survive |
| 15:25 | <karlcow> | That was also the time where designers were experimenting with small icons http://www.antipixel.com/blog/archives/2002/10/22/steal_these_buttons.html |
| 15:31 | <hsivonen> | wow. I didn't realize it has been ten years alrady |
| 15:32 | <hsivonen> | also, when did you last see a mention of amphetadesk? |
| 15:32 | <karlcow> | :) |
| 15:40 | <annevk> | Hixie: it would be nice if http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/ had Bugzilla links |
| 15:40 | <annevk> | Hixie: one instance of "WebVTT comments" is not linked |
| 15:40 | <annevk> | Hixie: the same for "ASCII digits" |
| 15:41 | <annevk> | Hixie: should also use the Encoding Standard |
| 16:09 | karlcow | recommends annevk to check out the source code of Arena beta-3, the file HTParse.h |
| 16:11 | <karlcow> | "Canonicalization of URIs is a difficult job" — https://gist.github.com/2569ea81038d5e98a7b2 |
| 16:11 | <karlcow> | I put the file on gist |
| 16:37 | <annevk> | my parser handles those scenarios, not entirely in the same way, but then that browser is old :) |
| 16:40 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: you might want to look at MIME type usage in http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/ too |
| 16:40 | <annevk> | GPHemsley: and I guess I might use some of the terminology you introduced, such as XML type |
| 16:41 | <annevk> | gotta go |
| 17:07 | <GPHemsley> | annevk: I don't see anything related to sniffing, per se, in XHR. But if there's something you want me to add to mimesniff to make your XHR life easier, let me know. |
| 17:16 | <smaug____> | hsivonen: ping |
| 18:47 | <Hixie> | hsivonen: what do you mean? (re xml-stylesheet and "you notes trigger concern") |
| 18:53 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: There are points in HTML were MIME sniffing is explicitly encouraged/required, correct? |
| 18:54 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: And, if so, can you provide me with a list of where that occurs (or point me to one)? |
| 19:36 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: encouraged of whom? implementors? |
| 19:36 | <Hixie> | GPHemsley: mentions of MIME Sniff can be found by searching for [MIMESNIFF] then clicking the <dfn> links that those are next to |
| 20:58 | <Ms2ger> | Anne might be interested in http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_7/core/engines.html#sqlite |
| 21:04 | <Hixie> | i'm amused at the meme with the caption "It seems that the people who most enjoy complaining about W3C Process are those who most enjoy Process discussions", but it seems incorrect |
| 21:05 | <Hixie> | since i enjoy complaining about w3c process, and i hate the process discussions so much i don't even turn up to tpac |
| 21:08 | <say2joe> | lol |
| 21:10 | <say2joe> | wish i lived in France |
| 22:37 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: Well, the lists of mentions are quite long. I was hoping for you to narrow it down a little, since you're more familiar with exactly what the spec says. But yes, where implementors are encouraged to proactively sniff. |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | the lists arne't long, it's like three areas |
| 22:38 | <Hixie> | ignore the <dfn>Content-Type metadata</dfn>, that's just references to Content-Type, not sniffing |
| 22:40 | <GPHemsley> | well, the lists only work on the one-page version, which my computer seems to hate |
| 22:40 | <GPHemsley> | which makes me afraid to go fishing for information directly |
| 22:41 | <GPHemsley> | oh, OK, I see |
| 22:41 | <GPHemsley> | I was working from memory when I asked |
| 22:41 | <GPHemsley> | and it was indeed only the content-type link that was long |
| 22:55 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: Am I right in my understanding that the type SHOULD always be sniffed for resources called by <img> and <object>? |
| 22:59 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: And the same for <link> (e.g. for a shortcut icon)? |
| 23:00 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: Also, do you define precisely what an "image" is? |
| 23:05 | <GPHemsley> | Hixie: And your only use of the text-or-binary algorithm (in <object>) is just to ensure against binary files tagged as 'text/plain'? |