| 00:36 | <a-ja> | tantek: was your recent html5/uF2 talk recorded/published? |
| 00:39 | <a-ja> | tantek: n/m....just found the slides |
| 00:39 | <tantek> | yes - they'll have video in a couple of weeks |
| 00:44 | <a-ja> | tantek: cool...tks |
| 00:45 | <a-ja> | tantek: btw....bad link to uF2 page on slide 38 |
| 00:45 | <tantek> | a-ja - thanks - will take a look at it |
| 01:19 | <tantek> | a-ja link fixed. thanks again. |
| 01:20 | <a-ja> | np |
| 08:49 | <darobin> | jgraham, odinho, tobie, Ms2ger: should we coordinate the webapps move somehow? |
| 08:49 | <darobin> | the thing I'm not sure about is how to preserve history — I hear there may be a trick with sub-tree merges but I'm unclear on the details |
| 08:49 | <tobie> | whereby coordinate you mean: someone _actually_ does it? |
| 08:49 | <Ms2ger> | I know you can do it with hg ;) |
| 08:50 | <darobin> | tobie: well, right now it's one huge lump of a task |
| 08:50 | <darobin> | I was hoping that if we put just a few details together, such as how it would actually work, then it can be carved up into smaller bits |
| 08:51 | <darobin> | that people can actually JFD |
| 08:51 | <Ms2ger> | I think the main part is getting the existing history into the git repo |
| 08:51 | Ms2ger | googles |
| 08:52 | darobin | reads up on subtree merging |
| 08:52 | <tobie> | I'm out next week and busy until friday |
| 08:52 | <tobie> | so you can't really count on me. |
| 08:52 | <Ms2ger> | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1425892/how-do-you-merge-two-git-repositories ? |
| 08:54 | <darobin> | the magic is detailed here http://git-scm.com/book/ch6-7.html |
| 08:55 | <darobin> | yeah, it looks like git subtree is just porcelain atop subtree merging |
| 09:00 | <darobin> | ok, let me run a trial on one of the test suites |
| 09:01 | <darobin> | so there are two steps here: getting the stuff into git, and then moving it around properly |
| 09:01 | <darobin> | I'll do the first part |
| 09:02 | <darobin> | importing into old-tests I guess |
| 09:02 | <darobin> | and then we can work on moving things piece by piece |
| 09:10 | <asmodai> | Mmm, nice news on Blink. Anything that reduces complexity and maintenance headaches is a good effort. |
| 09:10 | <darobin> | "added 1080 changesets with 6106 changes to 2867 files" |
| 09:16 | <odinho> | darobin: Yeah, creating a git repo is def step one. |
| 09:17 | <odinho> | But it would also be possible to move all the history over as a rebase-onto in that way. |
| 09:17 | <odinho> | I do not think it particulary smart to change history/sha's that already exist for web-platform-tests. |
| 09:18 | <darobin> | odinho: I think the subtree merge does change history |
| 09:18 | <odinho> | Oh, well, a merge will do as well. |
| 09:18 | <darobin> | it just adds history from another branch |
| 09:19 | <darobin> | heh, saw your comment too late... |
| 09:19 | <odinho> | darobin: That doesn't make sense what you said |
| 09:19 | <odinho> | a "not" missing somewhere? |
| 09:19 | <darobin> | odinho: I've added the hg repo as a remote, and tracking it in a branch |
| 09:19 | <darobin> | odinho: yes! now you have to guess where :) |
| 09:20 | <darobin> | a subtree merge does NOT change history |
| 09:20 | <odinho> | Okay. |
| 09:20 | <Ms2ger> | I'd hope not :) |
| 09:20 | <darobin> | odinho: and now I've read the tree from that branch into the master branch |
| 09:20 | <darobin> | but in a subdir |
| 09:23 | <darobin> | okay, well, we have the files |
| 09:24 | <darobin> | it looks like the history is there but you need to know to look for it in the branch rather than in the merge :-/ |
| 09:24 | <odinho> | :-) |
| 09:24 | <darobin> | ah well, we *have* the history |
| 09:24 | <darobin> | git is just not being exceedingly friendly in exposing it |
| 09:24 | <odinho> | It does it in the most obvious way :-) |
| 09:25 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, did you add a todo list? |
| 09:25 | <odinho> | Well, making a linear list of a graph is not really something you can do too obvious to everyone. |
| 09:26 | <darobin> | odinho: yeah, someone did that to me once and I wasn't really happy |
| 09:26 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: a todo list? |
| 09:26 | <darobin> | you mean of things to move? |
| 09:27 | <Ms2ger> | Yeah |
| 09:27 | <darobin> | well |
| 09:27 | <Ms2ger> | We had something like that for html, no? |
| 09:27 | <darobin> | did we? oh yes we did |
| 09:27 | <darobin> | it was the file that would conflict all the time :) |
| 09:28 | <Ms2ger> | :D |
| 09:28 | <darobin> | let me first announce the move to webapps |
| 09:28 | <darobin> | in theory we can track and pull changes made in hg, in practice I'd rather not do too much of that |
| 09:28 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: I reckon that for the todo splitting we could use the wiki |
| 09:28 | <darobin> | if you want to start listing that please just do so |
| 09:29 | <odinho> | darobin: So, pushed a branch to look at? |
| 09:29 | <Ms2ger> | Eh, wiki |
| 09:29 | <Ms2ger> | I'm no tantek |
| 09:29 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: yeah I hate those too |
| 09:29 | <Ms2ger> | Etherpad, maybe? :) |
| 09:29 | <darobin> | wfm! |
| 09:29 | <darobin> | odinho: you mean, err, master? |
| 09:30 | <darobin> | odinho: two things, really |
| 09:30 | <odinho> | Ah, you just did a push |
| 09:30 | <darobin> | in master, the files are under old-tests/webapps |
| 09:30 | <darobin> | and there's a webapps_import branch |
| 09:30 | <darobin> | that one is tracking the hg repo as a remote |
| 09:30 | <odinho> | Ah. Folder. Okay. |
| 09:31 | <darobin> | odinho: step 2 is moving things to the right places :) |
| 09:32 | <odinho> | ... Hmmm. The old-tests doesn't seem to have any history. |
| 09:32 | <odinho> | In GitHub |
| 09:33 | <Ms2ger> | <darobin> ah well, we *have* the history |
| 09:33 | <Ms2ger> | <darobin> git is just not being exceedingly friendly in exposing it |
| 09:33 | <odinho> | Git would show it |
| 09:33 | <odinho> | If it was there |
| 09:33 | <darobin> | odinho: yeah, I don't understand how that works |
| 09:34 | <odinho> | Lemme check it out instead of using github |
| 09:35 | <darobin> | odinho: I think the problem is that git knows there's a link between that subdir and the original repo, but the history is not showing it for files |
| 09:37 | <darobin> | maybe I can do this again with another strategy |
| 09:37 | <odinho> | Nope, no history there. Yes. |
| 09:37 | <odinho> | It needs another strategy. |
| 09:39 | <odinho> | A simple git merge does the trick. |
| 09:39 | <odinho> | However, -- you're getting everything at the same level then. |
| 09:39 | <odinho> | But it's mostly what it should be anyway. Any cleanup could always be done afterwards :-) |
| 09:40 | <odinho> | Or the next commit could be a "move these folders into old-webapps or old-tests/webapps/". |
| 09:40 | <darobin> | odinho: sorry, I don't get what you're saying |
| 09:40 | <darobin> | oh |
| 09:40 | <darobin> | you mean just merge the branch |
| 09:40 | <odinho> | We should remove the huge commit you did from history. |
| 09:40 | <odinho> | Yes. |
| 09:40 | <Ms2ger> | Ping me when you're ready :) |
| 09:40 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: will do :) |
| 09:41 | <darobin> | odinho: first, I'll remove the current stuff — it's actually not *really* a huge commit since the webapps_import branch already had all the data :) |
| 09:43 | <odinho> | Yeah, git will reuse it. |
| 09:43 | <odinho> | But imma lunch! |
| 09:45 | darobin | gives an apple to Eris before merging |
| 09:46 | <Ms2ger> | Is that some metaphor I don't understand? |
| 09:48 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: Eris is the goddess of the internet |
| 09:49 | <darobin> | ok, I don't actually need to put this in old-tests, we can simply clean up the directories one by one |
| 09:49 | <Ms2ger> | She's a cat? |
| 09:49 | <darobin> | surprisingly, no |
| 09:52 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: here's the list https://etherpad.mozilla.org/yqT83Y2hPm |
| 09:52 | <darobin> | and it's committed |
| 09:52 | <darobin> | I propose this: |
| 09:53 | <darobin> | we remove whatever useless depth there is in the testing directory structure |
| 09:53 | <darobin> | then anything under approved we move to the root |
| 09:53 | <darobin> | and anything in submitted is in a "submitted" directory at the root, and that can be turned into PRs later |
| 09:53 | <darobin> | (the rest doesn't need that) |
| 09:54 | <darobin> | oh, and remove widgets? |
| 09:54 | <Ms2ger> | sgtm |
| 09:54 | <darobin> | yeah, remove widgets |
| 09:55 | <Ms2ger> | I'll be there in a bit |
| 09:55 | <Ms2ger> | knobgobbler? |
| 09:56 | <jgraham> | I was wondering the same |
| 10:04 | <annevk> | darobin++ |
| 10:04 | <annevk> | darobin: I was kind of sceptical of your move to become HTML5 editor, but it seems you're allocating your time to do a great amount of good instead, awesome! |
| 10:04 | <darobin> | annevk: :) |
| 10:05 | <darobin> | annevk: the way I saw it is that if there's funding to do useful stuff, it should be taken |
| 10:07 | <darobin> | dear me, this webapps directory structure is tiresome |
| 10:09 | darobin | wishes etherpad could be in monospace |
| 10:21 | <hsivonen> | Gruber's posts about Blink are remarkably lacking obvious anti-Google pro-WebKit-monoculture sentiment https://daringfireball.net/ |
| 10:22 | <gsnedders> | Time for me to write up some slightly less gut thoughts a day after the fact, I think. |
| 10:23 | <odinho> | Ms2ger, darobin: Sounds good. Have any of you commited any of it? |
| 10:23 | <annevk> | hsivonen: It reads more like he's whoa and doesn't know how the world turns anymore with respect to that particular subject |
| 10:23 | <Ms2ger> | odinho, darobin's been committing, I'm working on DOM |
| 10:24 | <annevk> | hsivonen: Though the Servo post he made still made it seem he believes Gecko to have been obsoleted by WebKit... |
| 10:24 | <odinho> | Hmmm. So now I wonder wether the CfC was binding for webappsec as well. |
| 10:25 | <darobin> | odinho: see, you shouldn't have asked that question publicly |
| 10:25 | <darobin> | if you hadn't, you'd have been able to just move stuff and then go "Oh? Sorry, I thought it was binding for webappsec too" :) |
| 10:25 | <darobin> | odinho: I've been committing stuff, see #htmlt |
| 10:25 | <darobin> | ah, you're not there |
| 10:26 | <darobin> | lots of gitbot spam |
| 10:26 | <odinho> | Yeah, I ate a clue pill after I spammed the channel and just looked in the git repo :P |
| 10:26 | <darobin> | been making a bunch of PRs too |
| 10:26 | <odinho> | darobin: Fsck! I'm not as evilsmart as you :-/ |
| 10:27 | <darobin> | odinho: the trick is to practice your evil laugh every morning |
| 10:28 | <hsivonen> | annevk: Gruber being dismissive of Mozilla is not news |
| 10:43 | <Ms2ger> | Hmm, looks like Bert cleared out the www-style moderation queue |
| 10:45 | <jgraham> | darobin: Like that? |
| 10:45 | <darobin> | jgraham: ? |
| 10:45 | <jgraham> | 10:11 * darobin wishes etherpad could be in monospace |
| 10:46 | <darobin> | ah, odinho is back from lunch, so now I can go eat |
| 10:46 | <darobin> | jgraham: hey cool man, thanks! I tried to fix it but the Pad options thing gives me a broken UI |
| 10:46 | <jgraham> | Presto ftw? |
| 10:47 | <darobin> | oh, I see what you did man |
| 10:47 | <Ms2ger> | What's Presto? |
| 10:47 | <darobin> | well played |
| 10:47 | <Ms2ger> | Oh dear |
| 10:47 | <darobin> | lol, switch to monospace and watch as three geeks reflexively align their tab columns :) |
| 10:47 | <Ms2ger> | Let's see how long until someone complains about https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/90268bb52a0a44fbee196c99a5b55c0d6d37da62 |
| 10:48 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: you mean the fast tracking? |
| 10:48 | <Ms2ger> | No, the test for isTrusted in the PE test suite |
| 10:48 | <darobin> | oh *that* |
| 10:48 | darobin | lives to be amused |
| 10:48 | <darobin> | anyway, lunch |
| 10:49 | <Ms2ger> | Enjoy |
| 10:49 | <Ms2ger> | Maybe then I can finally get my push in :) |
| 10:50 | <odinho> | lol |
| 10:50 | <odinho> | Hmf, my specs' first stage are super boring. moving IndexedDB/tests/submissions to IndexedDB/submissions. And can do the same for SSE. |
| 10:52 | <odinho> | 'git pull --rebase; git push' is my friend. |
| 10:53 | <Ms2ger> | Looks like I hung Firefox by running the DOM tests |
| 10:55 | <odinho> | Sooo... The phase 2. When do we start on that? And how will that look? :] Making the changes into branches, and pull requests. But do you normally do any changes to e.g. file names then? |
| 10:55 | <odinho> | There will probably be lots of different styles etc. |
| 10:56 | <odinho> | And deciding whether the spec should have a section based numbering scheme should probably also be done at one stage. |
| 10:57 | <Ms2ger> | Oh, not running them |
| 10:57 | <Ms2ger> | Formatting the results |
| 10:59 | <jgraham> | Yeah, that can take a long time :( |
| 11:25 | <odinho> | Okay. |
| 11:26 | <odinho> | Some branch names make no sense though. Because they say submission/NAMEOFCOMPANY |
| 11:26 | <odinho> | But it should rather be submission/NAMEOFCOMPANY/the-spec-or-what-change |
| 11:29 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: I just beat them into it with a bullwhip |
| 11:29 | <darobin> | oh, sorry, wrong channel |
| 11:29 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: create submission/spec-submitter branch; move the files to the root; commit; push the branch; make PR |
| 11:30 | <darobin> | odinho: yeah submission/COMPANY comes from when it was only HTML in there |
| 11:30 | <Ms2ger> | Got a command for that first step? |
| 11:32 | <darobin> | git checkout -b nameOfBranch |
| 11:32 | <darobin> | then |
| 11:32 | <darobin> | git mv whatever |
| 11:33 | <darobin> | git commit whatever |
| 11:33 | <darobin> | git push origin nameOfBranch |
| 11:37 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, that seems to have worked... Now, what do I do for the next submission for this spec? |
| 11:38 | <Ms2ger> | And someone give annevk a critic account |
| 11:38 | <Ms2ger> | jgraham, maybe |
| 11:38 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: git checkout master to return to master, then do the same again |
| 11:42 | <sangwhan_> | Ms2ger: I've seen something from Mozilla with quite interesting indentation "rules" although I'd prefer to not say what since it might as well be a mistake in which case it might be nice (blame version control) |
| 11:48 | <odinho> | Hmmmm... Should I keep the event-source version history from git or noot... |
| 11:48 | <jgraham> | Seems plh is to blame for this code style |
| 11:48 | <jgraham> | I wonder if I should bother complaining about trailing whitespace |
| 11:48 | <odinho> | Problem is that it will show up in the review. Hm. Guess it's better to keep it in, right? |
| 11:48 | <jgraham> | M-x delete-trailing-whitespace should fix |
| 11:49 | <jgraham> | odinho: Hmm? No problem with having history. But no problem with squashing one logical change into a single commit either |
| 11:50 | <jgraham> | It depends what the history is |
| 11:52 | <odinho> | Just where we got the pull requests from. Which I wanted to keep. |
| 11:52 | <odinho> | But the ugly commits are the moving commits :-) |
| 11:53 | <odinho> | Anyway. Soeh. How would I do a nice assert_not_exists()-replacement, assert_equals(e.data, undefined, 'data should not exist')? Any better way? Getting rustey. |
| 11:54 | <darobin> | mmm, we're using different conventions for branch naming, but I'm guessing that doesn't matter |
| 11:55 | <odinho> | Luckily submissions/opera/ folder is not taken, so I can use that :] |
| 11:56 | <odinho> | I mean branch folder here |
| 11:56 | <odinho> | In case anyone got worried |
| 11:58 | <sangwhan_> | It is quite interesting how most version control handles renaming/moving to another path in a +191984/-191984 way |
| 12:00 | <odinho> | Good it's not +191984/-191985 |
| 12:01 | <sangwhan_> | I've had my unfortunate incidents of clicking on one of those on a GUI. Not recommended. |
| 12:02 | <odinho> | guess assert_false(e.hasOwnProperty('data')) is better |
| 12:07 | <odinho> | There are three submission folders in Git, which one do we use? :-(((( submission/ submissions/ subsmission/ |
| 12:07 | <odinho> | I'll bet on submission/ |
| 12:08 | <Ms2ger> | Nah, subsmission/ |
| 12:09 | <sangwhan_> | Is there any specs defining UIEvent outside of DOM2/DOM3? |
| 12:09 | <sangwhan_> | s/Is/Are/ |
| 12:09 | <Ms2ger> | Travis's new thing? |
| 12:09 | <Ms2ger> | But no serious spec |
| 12:10 | <odinho> | I have no idea what IndieUI is doing, but they were doing something input something event something. |
| 12:11 | <sangwhan_> | IndieUI doesn't define core events, it's something way more high level |
| 12:11 | <odinho> | Ms2ger: Okay, I'll go on and create subsmissions/ then, so we can start fresh. |
| 12:11 | <odinho> | sangwhan_: And I did'nt still there was no untruth in what I said! :D |
| 12:12 | <sangwhan_> | odinho: :) |
| 12:12 | <sangwhan_> | Ms2ger: Travis' new thing being this? http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html |
| 12:12 | <odinho> | I understood what I meant with that last sentence, although I'm not able to read it and comprehend it now. |
| 12:13 | <Ms2ger> | sangwhan_, no, that's Travis's old thing :) |
| 12:13 | sangwhan_ | was hoping that wasn't the new thing |
| 12:15 | <Ms2ger> | I don't recall where the new thing is |
| 12:16 | <sangwhan_> | Can't find it. Google isn't helping either. Wonder if it's because it's a Microsoft driven spec and conspiracy. |
| 12:16 | sangwhan_ | sees DOM3E dating back to 2000 though |
| 12:17 | <Ms2ger> | Check his recentish emails to www-dom? :) |
| 12:20 | <sangwhan_> | https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/tip/source_respec.htm |
| 12:31 | <Ms2ger> | error: 'refs/heads/submission/Mozilla' exists; cannot create 'refs/heads/submission/Mozilla/DOMEvents' |
| 12:31 | <Ms2ger> | Halp |
| 12:37 | <jgraham> | Ms2ger: Pick a different branch name that doesn't start Mozilla/ |
| 12:37 | <jgraham> | It seems that someone created a branch called Mozilla |
| 12:37 | <Ms2ger> | I'll call it Blink |
| 12:37 | <jgraham> | (based on the error message) |
| 12:37 | <jgraham> | (not on looking at the repo or anything) |
| 12:38 | <Ms2ger> | So how do I rename this branch? |
| 12:40 | <annevk> | mounir: you're so productive when I'm not in the office |
| 12:43 | <mounir> | annevk: not that related... that's because I need to do stuff for sysapps |
| 12:43 | <mounir> | so I do everything I can but that ;) |
| 12:47 | <Ms2ger> | Going to leave the remainder to y'all |
| 12:54 | <annevk> | mounir: hehe |
| 13:01 | <odinho> | Ms2ger: To rename, you can just create a new one. Although it'd be nice to delete the upstream submission/Mozilla unless it's already in a PR. But yea. |
| 13:02 | <odinho> | so, in a command, that could be: git checkout -b /submission/Mozilla2/DOMEvents |
| 13:03 | <darobin_> | odinho: the original one is likely in a PR |
| 13:03 | <darobin_> | as I said, it's from when there was only HTML in there, |
| 13:04 | <odinho> | It's not really like HTML is only a single thing either though. And that Mozilla would ever only contribute one specific testsuite to HTML spec :P |
| 13:05 | <odinho> | But it already being there is an obvious blocker to using it. |
| 13:05 | <odinho> | Might be able to use lowercase mozilla though :P |
| 13:06 | <sangwhan_> | darobin: Is return types looking strange in https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/6f2c52cd50f6/touchevents.html#methods a known issue? |
| 13:07 | <darobin> | sangwhan: can you be a bit more specific please? |
| 13:08 | <darobin> | ah, I get it |
| 13:08 | <darobin> | mmmm |
| 13:08 | <darobin> | sangwhan: that's a bug |
| 13:08 | <sangwhan> | darobin: I assumed so, because I couldn't find a way to fix it in markup |
| 13:09 | <darobin> | you can't, I have to fix it at my end |
| 13:09 | <sangwhan> | I did something insane to work around it |
| 13:09 | <darobin> | https://github.com/darobin/respec/issues/185 |
| 13:09 | <darobin> | I'm not sure I want to know |
| 13:10 | <darobin> | :) |
| 13:10 | <darobin> | I can fix that today or tomorrow |
| 13:10 | <sangwhan> | Let's put it this way, nobody will see it in the final spec :) |
| 13:35 | <darobin> | sangwhan: are you cynthia on GH? |
| 13:35 | <darobin> | odinho: ok, the only two directories that still need work in the TS are yours :) |
| 13:39 | <odinho> | Oh I have them locally. |
| 13:39 | <darobin> | odinho: you mean you have them done? |
| 13:42 | <odinho> | Bah thought so, but no, will do it :P I got sidetracked. |
| 13:43 | <darobin> | odinho: I'm not pressuring you :) |
| 13:43 | <Ms2ger> | odinho, git branch -m worked |
| 13:56 | <odinho> | darobin, Ms2ger: Uhh, I see we actually do PR's on the moves. |
| 13:57 | <odinho> | I did it with mosquito as they would show up as new files, -- so that they work like a real pull. -- But seeing now the obvious downside is getting a disconnected history. |
| 13:57 | <odinho> | I'll only the PR's on the moves for the stuff in IndexedDB. |
| 13:57 | <Ms2ger> | ... Keeping the history was kinda the point of this exercise |
| 13:59 | <scott_gonzalez> | TabAtkins: Is there a spec for CSS mixins or just variables? |
| 13:59 | <darobin> | odinho: sorry, what's the issue? |
| 13:59 | <odinho> | The history is there, it's disconnected. |
| 13:59 | <darobin> | normally git detects renames |
| 13:59 | <odinho> | darobin: That I thought about how to clear the files from the repo, so that they wouldn't be cluttering up the space. :] |
| 13:59 | <darobin> | odinho: we only do PRs on the moves when they involve submissions |
| 14:00 | <odinho> | Hmmm. I can actually just revert the delete commit. |
| 14:00 | <jgraham> | How/where is the error event defined |
| 14:00 | <jgraham> | ? |
| 14:00 | <odinho> | And then do a move request. |
| 14:00 | <odinho> | I'll do that |
| 14:00 | <darobin> | odinho: oh you mean you've deleted stuff from master and then readded in submissions? |
| 14:00 | <odinho> | darobin: Yep |
| 14:00 | <darobin> | odinho: oh, yes, please don't do that :) |
| 14:00 | <odinho> | I was thinking "how to make a nice looking pull request" |
| 14:01 | <darobin> | let me put this in no uncertain terms |
| 14:01 | <darobin> | fuck nice looking |
| 14:01 | <odinho> | ^>^ |
| 14:01 | <darobin> | between the all of us, we're good looking enough that our pull requests can be as ugly as the butt warts of Sauron |
| 14:04 | <jgraham> | http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/webappapis.html#onerroreventhandler makes it sound an awful lot like addEventListener("error", function() {}) out not work |
| 14:04 | <jgraham> | *ought |
| 14:05 | <sangwhan> | darobin: Yes, cynthia is a stupid posix login that was made more than a decade ago that stuck |
| 14:05 | jgraham | wonders wtf odinho is doing |
| 14:06 | <jgraham> | (forcing pushes to master is really bad. Please don't do it) |
| 14:06 | <odinho> | jgraham: WAT I was super quick! |
| 14:06 | <odinho> | How did you ever notice :| |
| 14:07 | <darobin> | odinho: the bot ratted you out |
| 14:07 | <darobin> | sangwhan: I was just wondering if the issue comment was from you :) |
| 14:07 | <odinho> | It was super evil, but I thought noone would notice since I was lightning quick at it :/ |
| 14:07 | <odinho> | Damn those bots |
| 14:07 | <jgraham> | odinho: Yeah, and remember that critic updates as soon as you push |
| 14:08 | <sangwhan> | darobin: The answer would be yes :) |
| 14:08 | <darobin> | well, we noticed, but indeed it was fast |
| 14:08 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: you mean the name "OnErrorEventHandler"? or something else? |
| 14:08 | <jgraham> | zcorpan: I mean what says that addEventListener("error", ...) does anything? |
| 14:09 | <zcorpan> | jgraham: nothing. and it shouldn't work. |
| 14:09 | <jgraham> | So http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/34 is wrong? |
| 14:10 | <zcorpan> | yes |
| 14:12 | sangwhan | ooh, critic outside of opera. now that's something. |
| 14:19 | <odinho> | Hmm. The TTWF ones are a bit special. Because some of them extend opera's tests. |
| 14:19 | <odinho> | There will be conflicts. :P Ohwell. |
| 14:27 | <odinho> | Yeh, starting to get a real visible backlog now. |
| 14:28 | <odinho> | Is døn |
| 14:28 | Ms2ger | sighs at his inbox |
| 14:28 | odinho | too |
| 14:28 | <Ms2ger> | And everything is assigned to me \o/ |
| 14:29 | <jgraham> | And me! |
| 14:30 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, and it's not even my job |
| 14:30 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: technically it ain't mine either :) |
| 14:32 | <jgraham> | Technically it's no one's job |
| 14:32 | <jgraham> | and it's boring… |
| 14:33 | <Ms2ger> | Let's make annevk do it |
| 14:34 | <annevk> | My quota for boring stuff has been full for a while now, really time for someone else to start cracking |
| 14:34 | <jgraham> | Well I have done some review today |
| 14:34 | <Ms2ger> | sicking knows some XHR stuff, right? |
| 14:34 | <odinho> | Yeah, and IDB too |
| 14:35 | <darobin> | let's have sicking do it all! |
| 14:35 | <Ms2ger> | sgtm |
| 14:35 | <odinho> | that's decided then |
| 14:35 | <Ms2ger> | RESOLVED: annevk pesters sicking until he reviews all the XHR/IDB tests |
| 14:35 | <odinho> | Hmmm. To be honest. |
| 14:36 | <odinho> | I did get a review from Mozilla on the IDB tests. |
| 14:36 | Ms2ger | hears odinho volunteer |
| 14:36 | <odinho> | So I need to fix that, -- and then they should really be reviewed. |
| 14:36 | <odinho> | I had a full RfR and everything, -- it was just that everything changed at that time ;-) And know you all know what. |
| 14:37 | Ms2ger | mumbles about rfrs |
| 14:38 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: apparently there's more of me these days: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/04/google_webkit_fork/ |
| 14:39 | <annevk> | whole legions of van Kesterens making incorrect assumptions about Blink |
| 14:39 | <Ms2ger> | Unfortunately for van Kesteren, who may have briefly got her hopes up, ... |
| 14:39 | <odinho> | lol, "her" |
| 14:40 | <odinho> | You sound so much more sexy as a girl. |
| 14:40 | <Ms2ger> | I'm not sure why I still find that so funny |
| 14:40 | <odinho> | Former Opera coder even. |
| 14:40 | <annevk> | Shows what research journalists do |
| 14:41 | <Ms2ger> | You should sign everything as "Anne van Kesteren (Mr.)" |
| 14:41 | <annevk> | Ms. 2ger, I don't even... |
| 14:41 | <darobin> | rofl, great article annevk |
| 14:41 | <odinho> | Sir Anne van Kesteren |
| 14:42 | <odinho> | The Register is well known for bad research. Always lots of errors. :-) |
| 14:42 | <gsnedders> | odinho: Do the Dutch even give out knighthoods? |
| 14:42 | <Ms2ger> | annevk, but hey, at least Google listens to you |
| 14:42 | <jgraham> | Move to Germany and become Herr Dr van Kesteren |
| 14:43 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: well, I got the impression that Google didn't listen to annevk so much as to the Kesteren Family Council |
| 14:44 | <darobin> | oh, hey, serendipacronym |
| 14:44 | <Ms2ger> | KFC? |
| 14:44 | <annevk> | Ms2ger: well they have to, there's legions of us |
| 14:44 | <darobin> | besides, shouldn't the proper form be "all the Kesterens in the world" rather than "all the van Kesterens"? |
| 14:44 | <odinho> | gsnedders: He's in London now, stupid :-) |
| 14:45 | <darobin> | or is NL different from FR there? |
| 14:45 | <gsnedders> | odinho: Not relevant unless he becomes a British citizen |
| 14:45 | <jgraham> | We gave one to Bill Gates |
| 14:45 | <darobin> | actually I think that it can work for Commonwealth citizens, for acts performed on British territory |
| 14:46 | <zcorpan> | looks like the article has s/her/his/ now |
| 14:46 | <Ms2ger> | Sounds like they track this channel closely |
| 14:46 | <darobin> | ah, shame |
| 14:46 | Ms2ger | waves |
| 14:46 | <Ms2ger> | marcosc, oh, we removed all your widget tests |
| 14:46 | <Ms2ger> | marcosc, and good morning :) |
| 14:46 | <gsnedders> | He cannot use the title Sir, though, merely the honourary KBE. |
| 14:46 | <marcosc> | Ms2ger: is ok, I moved everything to Github last week |
| 14:46 | <sangwhan> | "The van Kesterens of the web" is a interesting remark |
| 14:47 | <sangwhan> | Are there any implementations of widgets left after Presto dropped the ball? EFLWebkit? |
| 14:47 | <MikeSmith> | Justin Schuh seems to really be going out of his way in this thread to avoid responding at all to othermaciej's point that "we directly asked Google folks if they would be willing to contribute their multiprocess support back to WebKit, so that we could build on it. They said no." |
| 14:47 | <gsnedders> | sangwhan: Quite a few. |
| 14:47 | <annevk> | If you use it like that the v actually has to be uppercase, but I doubt anyone cares about that (though I do a bit) |
| 14:47 | <MikeSmith> | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5490242 |
| 14:48 | <marcosc> | Ms2ger: do you have more details of what got removed? |
| 14:48 | <Ms2ger> | marcosc, whatever was in the webapps repo |
| 14:48 | <marcosc> | Ms2ger: just in case I get emails |
| 14:48 | <darobin> | marcosc: all of widgets |
| 14:48 | <darobin> | marcosc: it's still in hg, it just got dropped in the move to gh |
| 14:49 | <sangwhan> | Wondering if pointer event and touch event tests should be dropped in there too or not |
| 14:50 | <Ms2ger> | Please don't put these touch event tests in my review queue |
| 14:50 | <Ms2ger> | If you want to ever see them again |
| 14:50 | <marcosc> | darobin: did all the specs also get deleted? |
| 14:51 | <odinho> | marcosc: Haven't you herd, we're all bout' them tests now, who needs specs when we've got tests? |
| 14:51 | <marcosc> | heh |
| 14:51 | <sangwhan> | Ms2ger: Any reason why? (apart from the fact that there are a *lot* of asserts IIRC) |
| 14:52 | <odinho> | marcosc: As far as I know, we're only messing up tests. |
| 14:52 | <Ms2ger> | sangwhan, you may want to read yesterday's #webapps logs |
| 14:53 | sangwhan | isn't in the group (nor any important group) so will have to dig through the archive for minutes, BRB |
| 14:53 | <marcosc> | odinho: ok, sounds good to me. |
| 14:53 | <annevk> | I'm gonna use that from now on. "The Van Kesterens of this world, think you should use a future." |
| 14:54 | <Ms2ger> | The Van Kesterens of the netherworld suggest mutation events |
| 14:59 | <jgraham> | Every time you use that line we will get TimBL to phone your brother for confirmation. |
| 15:00 | <MikeSmith> | the Van Kesterens sound like one of the noble houses in Game of Thrones |
| 15:01 | <darobin> | marcosc: the specs weren't deleted unless they were in the webapps testing repo |
| 15:01 | <darobin> | we're not including specs in the TS anyway... |
| 15:02 | <darobin> | sangwhan: Ms2ger's comments about quality notwithstanding, anything that's meant to be in browsers should be in that repo |
| 15:03 | sangwhan | is checking the tests (never looked at it underneath the hood) |
| 15:04 | <sangwhan> | One thing I did find a bit disturbing is this tidbit: http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/wiki/TEv1ImplReport |
| 15:05 | <sangwhan> | Where depending on the implementation the amount of things that get tested are different, which I find quite misleading |
| 15:06 | <jgraham> | That's terrible test writing |
| 15:06 | <jgraham> | Or terrrible something |
| 15:08 | <sangwhan> | Yes on both |
| 15:08 | <Ms2ger> | sangwhan, you're involved there, right? |
| 15:09 | <sangwhan> | darobin: Ms2ger's points regarding the optional arguments make sense and should be addressed |
| 15:10 | <sangwhan> | Ms2ger: Yes, to some extent - I'm getting a bit passive in the involvement due to time constraints though |
| 15:10 | <jgraham> | We obviously need a test writing reviewing guide |
| 15:10 | <jgraham> | One that makes it clear that having variable numbers of tests is not OK |
| 15:11 | <jgraham> | and makes it even clearer that having a feature detection as the first test and then refusing to run the other tests is doubly not OK |
| 15:11 | <darobin> | sangwhan: oh yes, I fully agree with Ms2ger's points |
| 15:11 | <darobin> | I was just saying that tests for those specs should be included |
| 15:11 | <darobin> | (fixed is a separate matter) |
| 15:12 | <darobin> | jgraham: great idea, when will you be done? :) |
| 15:12 | <darobin> | it should also talk about testing for prefixed features, there's some amount of that going on |
| 15:13 | <Ms2ger> | Testing for their non-existence? :) |
| 15:14 | <jgraham> | How does "The 'do this or I will send Ms2ger round to your house with a bat' guide to writing testcases" sound? |
| 15:14 | <Ms2ger> | Eh |
| 15:14 | <Ms2ger> | You wouldn't need to send me |
| 15:15 | <jgraham> | Well not if they follow the guide! |
| 15:18 | <sangwhan> | I'll see if I can get the optional argument tests in there (and get time to do it, that's the harder part) |
| 15:20 | <sangwhan> | As a off-topic question - any browser shipping *with* the assembly optimized helpers in OpenSSL for ARM? |
| 15:20 | <sangwhan> | darobin: Guess we should try to get the tests in there then |
| 15:21 | sangwhan | wonders if there is any automation (Webdriver?) effort going on for the interactive web platform tests |
| 15:21 | <darobin> | sangwhan: if you want to volunteer, I can give you write-access to the repo |
| 15:21 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, which reminds me |
| 15:22 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, we should have a group that isn't called "HTML WG" to own the repo |
| 15:22 | <darobin> | all we ask is that you don't destroy history, and that you sync with your friends here or on #htmlt (or wherever really) |
| 15:22 | <sangwhan> | darobin: I can volunteer, don't expect results too soon though :) |
| 15:22 | <darobin> | sangwhan: ok, I'll add you to the team |
| 15:22 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: it's just a name |
| 15:22 | <darobin> | I'd rather not bikeshed, it's only administrative |
| 15:22 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, exactly, I don't like the name :) |
| 15:22 | <darobin> | besides, I so do love having you in the HTML WG |
| 15:23 | <Ms2ger> | Maybe I should leave it again and have you do merges ;) |
| 15:23 | <darobin> | sangwhan: you're in :) |
| 15:23 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: awww |
| 15:23 | sangwhan | prepares to wreak havoc |
| 15:24 | <sangwhan> | darobin: Got the notifiation, thanks |
| 15:28 | <sangwhan> | smaug____: I investigated a bit on how to implement UIEvent.deviceID (or whatever it may be eventually called), looks like a serious pain to implement |
| 15:30 | <Ms2ger> | darobin, yay :) |
| 15:31 | <darobin> | Ms2ger: :) |
| 15:31 | <smaug____> | sangwhan: it can be tricky, yes, and in many cases it would be just some kind of default value, I could imagine |
| 15:32 | <TabAtkins> | scott_gonzalez: Just variables. I haven't sold the WG on Mixins yet, though it would probably be a good idea for me to write it up soonish, just to have it there. |
| 15:33 | <Ms2ger> | TabAtkins, just don't dare to put it on dev.w3.org... |
| 15:34 | <jgraham> | Yay, CVS! |
| 15:35 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: I wasn't involved with the discussions re: Apple using our multiprocess, but from my understanding, it was a lot less cut & dry than Maciej is selling it to be. |
| 15:36 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: The fact that they went and made all the same mistakes that we initially did, and are gradually changing things over to the way we do things, suggests that part of the friction was them wanting to do something different than what we originally wanted. |
| 15:36 | <darobin> | gotta love how the second example from https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15291 is someone using @pattern on input type=email |
| 15:36 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: so that suggests there was some miscommunication I guess |
| 15:36 | <sangwhan> | CVS isn't that bad, but the layout of W3C's CVS is a bit ... interesting I must say |
| 15:36 | <TabAtkins> | Ms2ger: This was a blessing in disguise - it reminded me that I *should* be starting all my specs on GitHub under CC0. |
| 15:37 | <MikeSmith> | TabAtkins: because I don't think Maciej is intentionally trying to sell anything. Why would he be? |
| 15:37 | <TabAtkins> | I dunno. |
| 15:37 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 15:38 | <Ms2ger> | dglazkov, good morning, and review your tests |
| 15:38 | <dglazkov> | okay |
| 15:39 | <Ms2ger> | :D |
| 15:40 | <dglazkov> | Ms2ger: love what you guys are doing with github migration |
| 15:41 | <Ms2ger> | dglazkov, tell darobin that, I hate github :) |
| 15:44 | <darobin> | dglazkov: glad you like it! |
| 15:44 | <dglazkov> | darobin: which button do I push? :) |
| 15:45 | <darobin> | dglazkov: note that we moved the shadow tests as part of that |
| 15:45 | <darobin> | dglazkov: take your pick, we have over 20! |
| 15:45 | <dglazkov> | https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/47? |
| 15:45 | <darobin> | dglazkov: that's the one |
| 15:46 | <darobin> | if you're confident that the tests are good, press the button |
| 15:46 | <dglazkov> | I only have the "Comment" button |
| 15:46 | <darobin> | ah |
| 15:46 | <darobin> | I can fix that |
| 15:46 | <dglazkov> | yay |
| 15:46 | <darobin> | dglazkov: what's your GH username? |
| 15:46 | <darobin> | it doesn't seem to be dglazkov |
| 15:47 | <dglazkov> | there totally is :-\ |
| 15:47 | <dglazkov> | https://github.com/dglazkov |
| 15:47 | <darobin> | mmmmm |
| 15:47 | darobin | kicks the autocomplete box |
| 15:47 | <darobin> | dglazkov: reload |
| 15:48 | <dglazkov> | http://i.imgur.com/XHEsR.jpg |
| 15:49 | sangwhan | wonders what nat/google/x-ldqrrirqhnoeanad is |
| 15:50 | <dglazkov> | sangwhan: it's a thing. Not infectious though. |
| 15:51 | sangwhan | blinks (oh wait) |
| 15:58 | <miketaylr> | dglazkov: is there a better link for https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/explainer/? |
| 15:58 | <tbranyen> | i mean that one is pretty good, but something a little more concrete would be great |
| 16:00 | miketaylr | just sees -rwxr-xr-x 61523 index.html |
| 16:06 | <tbranyen> | oh yeah, i was being sarcastic |
| 16:06 | <tbranyen> | but if someone knows the right link for the WebComponents spec |
| 16:06 | <tbranyen> | that'd be thanks to be shared |
| 16:09 | <dglazkov> | tbranyen: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/explainer/index.html |
| 16:10 | <tbranyen> | excellent thanks dglazkov |
| 16:15 | <Adawerk_> | Is it ok to to do away with the <label for=""> if the text field has a placeholder and an aria-label attribute stating what it should be? |
| 16:15 | <TabAtkins> | Sure. |
| 16:15 | <jgraham> | I note that having a mix of alllower and InitialCaps names for directories is ugly |
| 16:16 | <Adawerk_> | TabAtkins: I figured so. Now that we're not supporting older browsers, I think this can be more effective. |
| 16:16 | <Adawerk_> | thanks |
| 16:17 | <Ms2ger> | Adawerk_, does it still let you click on the label to focus the field? |
| 16:17 | <Adawerk_> | I don't think so. That function will be gone if I rid of the label. |
| 16:18 | <Ms2ger> | Oh |
| 16:18 | Ms2ger | misread |
| 16:18 | <Adawerk_> | I may keep the labels for checkboxes/radio |
| 16:18 | <Adawerk_> | well I'll need to keep them now that i think about it. |
| 16:18 | <Adawerk_> | heh |
| 16:34 | <darobin> | dglazkov: thanks for reloading and shooting that one :) |
| 16:35 | <dglazkov> | darobin: big gun. tiny brain. what could go wrong |
| 16:35 | <darobin> | nothing so long as we ensure it all happens in a room with the right targets :) |
| 16:35 | <dglazkov> | darobin: a really small room. |
| 16:36 | <darobin> | and if it doesn't work, add booze |
| 17:05 | <SimonSapin> | TabAtkins: have we resolved on premultiplied or not for gradients? |
| 17:05 | <SimonSapin> | it seems cairo does non-premultiplied :( |
| 17:05 | Ms2ger | sniggers |
| 17:34 | <jgraham> | Really need dzenana-trenutak to join irc |
| 17:35 | <jgraham> | Lots of http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/47 must be dupliactes of Aryeh's stuff |
| 19:11 | <paul_irish> | does anyone recall discussions around "element queries" somewhere? i thought i remembered seeing some threads on it.. http://ianstormtaylor.com/media-queries-are-a-hack/ |
| 19:43 | <jgraham> | paul_irish: That has been discussed. The problem is that it can create loops |
| 19:48 | <eclipsevictim> | does anyone have a "Best Practices" for IndexedDB's upgradeneeded event? |
| 20:23 | <dgrogan> | eclipsevictim: assuming google hasn't turned up anything useful, I'd suggest asking a more detailed question on stackoverflow, not here. |
| 20:31 | <JonathanNeal> | I like <sublime> |
| 20:33 | <jsbell> | eclipsevictim: I just added a basic example to the spec, but not re-versioning... |
| 20:34 | <jsbell> | eclipsevictim: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndexedDB/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#introduction |
| 20:35 | <jsbell> | eclipsevictim: I assume you'd find an example showing e.g. how to migrate from older versions helpful? |
| 20:42 | <eclipsevictim> | preferably from 2 or more older versions |
| 20:42 | <eclipsevictim> | yes |
| 20:43 | <eclipsevictim> | very helpful |
| 20:43 | <eclipsevictim> | it would be, and much appreciated ... |
| 20:49 | <jsbell> | eclipsevictim: take another look at: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndexedDB/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#introduction |
| 20:49 | <jsbell> | I added an example showing opening v3 |
| 20:50 | <jsbell> | It's a spec not a tutorial so it's brief, but hopefully that steers you in the right direction. |
| 20:51 | <jsbell> | html5rocks.com has older examples with the old versioning API and webplatform.org doesn't have anything on IDB yet, alas. |
| 20:51 | <eclipsevictim> | ok |
| 20:51 | <eclipsevictim> | that'll do |
| 20:51 | <eclipsevictim> | although it means that you (and the spec) think that the right thing to do is to rely on the db version field |
| 20:52 | <eclipsevictim> | that's good enough for me as long as you're willing to have someone publish docs which say so :) |
| 20:54 | <jsbell> | Yep, well, that's how the feature was designed to be used. Of course you could come up with some alternate scheme but then the API isn't helping you. |
| 20:56 | <eclipsevictim> | if that's the design, i'm quite happy w/ it |
| 20:56 | <eclipsevictim> | the guy who asked me didn't see any way to get the old version |
| 20:56 | <eclipsevictim> | which your example resolves nicely :) |
| 20:57 | <eclipsevictim> | OH |
| 20:57 | <eclipsevictim> | one thing that really bugs me |
| 20:57 | <jsbell> | cool. :) Yeah, versioning is confusing at the best of times and IDB's API change just as people were starting to experiment with it didn't help. :P |
| 20:57 | <eclipsevictim> | i can't find a way to link to IDBVersionChangeEventInit |
| 20:57 | <eclipsevictim> | i can link to options-object-concept |
| 20:57 | <eclipsevictim> | but that's lame |
| 20:58 | <eclipsevictim> | i suspect that in principle i should make this complaint about all of your object definitions |
| 20:58 | <eclipsevictim> | (and i should be nice and send it as email so that i can be credited w/ the complaint, to show i'm a good citizen, but oh well) |
| 20:58 | <jsbell> | Yeah, I think that's a bug in ReSpec.js at the moment... |
| 20:58 | <eclipsevictim> | ok |
| 20:59 | <jsbell> | types (both internal/external) aren't turning into links correctly. I have mail to Robin about that. |
| 20:59 | <jsbell> | Hopefully he'll get that fixed and we'll publish a new WD by the end of this month. |
| 21:00 | eclipsevictim | nods |
| 21:00 | <eclipsevictim> | anyway, thanks, you've cleared a work item i meant to ask about a few weeks back (it got buried, and then i took a vacation) |
| 21:47 | <smaug____> | how do I file bugs on DAP WG's specs |
| 21:48 | <smaug____> | mailing list only? |
| 22:04 | <annevk> | think so |
| 23:18 | <boblet_> | hixie: yt? would like to get your take on del vs s |
| 23:22 | <boblet_> | I’m unsure how I’d use/style them on the same page, and I’m also wondering what other use cases for s apart from discounts |
| 23:28 | <zewt> | whenever i'm working in java i feel like i'm in school with a hall monitor looking over my shoulder |
| 23:28 | <zewt> | "unreachable code? that violates school rules!!! FATAL ERROR" |
