| 01:46 | <MikeSmith> | zcorpan: I did not file a gecko bug for comment-parsing change, but I see you did, so problem solved :) |
| 07:55 | <annevk> | caitp: indeed, that's rather rude |
| 12:13 | <annevk> | W3C made a real mess of their copy of DOM, geez |
| 12:14 | <annevk> | For something where they reportedly only subsetted (which was not what I was told originally), I wonder how https://github.com/w3c/dom/issues/4 happened |
| 12:16 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: can we get https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/xhr/raw-file/default/xhr-1/Overview.html redirected? |
| 12:20 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: yeah to https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/ ? |
| 12:21 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: no, https://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/ |
| 12:21 | <MikeSmith> | ah of course yeah |
| 12:22 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: maybe https://dev.w3.org/2006/canvas-api/canvas-2d-api.html too? |
| 12:23 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: to https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/scripting.html#the-canvas-element |
| 12:23 | <MikeSmith> | hai |
| 12:23 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: or https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/scripting.html#2dcontext maybe, up to you |
| 12:23 | <MikeSmith> | k |
| 12:23 | <MikeSmith> | working on it now |
| 12:25 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: I seem to remember that when we tried this before, adding redirects in .htaccess did not work |
| 12:25 | <MikeSmith> | right? |
| 12:25 | <MikeSmith> | because it is not apache |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I'm not sure |
| 12:26 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: you can find out how http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/fullscreen/raw-file/tip/Overview.html redirects maybe? |
| 12:26 | <MikeSmith> | well I remember adding meta-refresh to tsome |
| 12:26 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 12:26 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I thought that for dev.w3.org you could use .htaccess |
| 12:26 | <MikeSmith> | yeah for that yeah |
| 12:26 | <MikeSmith> | because that is apache |
| 12:26 | <MikeSmith> | anyway I’ll check |
| 12:36 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: OK just now finding/remembering where the redirects are configured |
| 12:36 | <MikeSmith> | in a file maintained in cvs |
| 12:37 | <MikeSmith> | can’t make this stuff up |
| 12:39 | Ms2ger | was wondering why you'd use "powerware mediocre" as a user name |
| 12:47 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: OK https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/xhr/raw-file/default/xhr-1/Overview.html done |
| 12:51 | <Ms2ger> | MikeSmith, doing DOM too? :) |
| 12:54 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: would that I could |
| 12:56 | Ms2ger | wonders what it'd take to become dictator^Wchair of the htmlwg |
| 13:09 | <MikeSmith> | Ms2ger: there is no htmlwg currently so I guess you could even nominate yourself chair and then second the nomination and then I could issue you a pretend chair certificate |
| 13:09 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: https://dev.w3.org/2006/canvas-api/canvas-2d-api.html redirected |
| 13:10 | <Ms2ger> | MikeSmith, whatever they call the fools wg now |
| 13:11 | <MikeSmith> | didn’t know we had a fools wg but if we do I think most people would agree I should definitely be King of that group |
| 13:12 | jgraham | hopes it is a goosberry fool |
| 13:27 | <zcorpan> | trying to find things that are expensive in standard.css I find that adding table { display:none } reduces time spent on layout more than removing the entire stylesheet (in chromium) |
| 13:32 | <JakeA> | annevk: This <a>task source</a> is used for features that <a>dispatch</a> other <a>functional</a> events, e.g. <a href="https://w3c.github.io/push-api/#h-the-push-event">push</a>; events, to <a>service workers</a> - trying to figure out what to do with this. Since it's an "e.g." should it be moved to a note? Also, what about the link to the push event, should |
| 13:32 | <JakeA> | I set up auto-linking for that or should I avoid that in non-normative text? |
| 13:35 | <annevk> | JakeA: events are typically linked |
| 13:35 | <annevk> | JakeA: e.g. could be moved to note, but no hard rules |
| 13:36 | <JakeA> | annevk: I was worried that by using autolinking it's make the push event a dependency in the spec or something |
| 13:39 | <annevk> | JakeA: should be possible to keep that informative and not normative |
| 13:43 | <JakeA> | ta |
| 14:28 | <zcorpan> | annevk: the only case where bikeshed's plural heuristic doesn't work is "C0 control or space" I think |
| 14:28 | <zcorpan> | annevk: but in practice it's just the url spec that uses that, right? |
| 14:29 | <annevk> | zcorpan: I think we'd have to rename ASCII hex digit upper to ASCII upper hex digit, no? |
| 14:29 | <zcorpan> | annevk: yes |
| 14:29 | <zcorpan> | annevk: i mean after renaming those |
| 14:30 | <zcorpan> | annevk: "C0 control or space" would not be found for <a>C0 controls or spaces</a> since bikeshed only tries to pluralize the last word |
| 14:31 | <annevk> | zcorpan: sure, we'd have to add an alternative lt for that one |
| 14:32 | <zcorpan> | oh right, that is possible |
| 14:37 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: who is responsible for https://github.com/w3c/streams-api/issues/1 at this point? |
| 14:38 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I wonder if we can at least get those documents cleaned up where there is no ongoing work |
| 15:33 | <gsnedders> | rbyers: who do I need to ask to be able to CC people on Monorail? |
| 15:37 | <gsnedders> | rbyers: also not having to go through the issue wizard |
| 15:54 | <JakeA> | TabAtkins: bikeshed question: I've got two "service worker" definitions in the spec, how do I signal that <a>service worker</a> should link to for="/" by default? |
| 16:09 | <annevk> | JakeA: I don't think you can |
| 16:09 | <JakeA> | aww |
| 16:11 | <annevk> | JakeA: there is https://tabatkins.github.io/bikeshed/#metadata-assume-explicit-for but that might have some side effects |
| 16:11 | <JakeA> | annevk: yeah, don't really want to enable it across the whole thing |
| 16:12 | <annevk> | JakeA: in that you need to specify for="" everywhere where it's not "/" |
| 16:12 | <annevk> | (even if there's only one such term) |
| 16:12 | <JakeA> | annevk: yeah. What I really want is a link-defaults line for the current spec |
| 16:12 | <JakeA> | type:dfn; for:/; text:service worker |
| 16:13 | <annevk> | JakeA: see long discussion in https://github.com/w3c/ServiceWorker/pull/995 |
| 16:13 | <annevk> | JakeA: I hope you have seen that PR before today btw |
| 16:14 | <annevk> | JakeA: it has similar goals as you have, I had forgotten about it |
| 16:14 | <JakeA> | annevk: I had, but had also forgotten about it. It's no biggie, it changes a few lines whereas I've ended up changing almost every line :D |
| 16:14 | <annevk> | heh |
| 16:15 | <annevk> | I'm still having a hard time understanding Web IDL, wherever I look it does strange things in how it defines things |
| 16:16 | <annevk> | Where "strange" means "I wouldn't have done it that way" I guess |
| 16:16 | <JakeA> | annevk: https://github.com/w3c/ServiceWorker/blob/bikeshed-cleanup/docs/index.bs is where I'm at - just stripping everything back. Now in the process of adding stuff back that's needed |
| 16:28 | <JakeA> | annevk: https://github.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/issues/853 seems relevent btw |
| 16:29 | <annevk> | JakeA: yeah, that's how we got explicit for I think |
| 16:29 | <JakeA> | shame it's a bit of a sledgehammer |
| 16:30 | <annevk> | JakeA: it's pretty easy to add for=/ everywhere too though |
| 16:30 | <JakeA> | annevk: yeah, doing that now |
| 16:30 | <annevk> | JakeA: (case-sensitive) search & replace ftw |
| 16:39 | <rbyers> | gsnedders: Oh, you still don't have edit-bugs rights! Sorry, I should have asked. |
| 16:39 | <rbyers> | gsnedders: I can fix that. Is it your gmail account that you use? |
| 16:41 | <gsnedders> | rbyers: geoffers⊙gc |
| 16:42 | <gsnedders> | I should really stop using that everywhere, but it's irritating having bugs filed from two separate accounts, so… |
| 17:05 | <JakeA> | annevk: I'm a bit stuck. https://gist.github.com/jakearchibald/2df40122ef29b11948624f065e041857 - I can't figure out why <a for="ServiceWorkerGlobalScope">install</a> isn't resolving |
| 17:06 | <JakeA> | "LINK ERROR: No 'dfn' refs found for 'install'." |
| 17:10 | <JakeA> | TabAtkins: is the above a bug or have I just Jake'd it up? |
| 17:25 | <annevk> | JakeA: what does the install dfn look like? |
| 17:32 | <JakeA> | annevk: <dfn event id="service-worker-global-scope-install-event"><code>install</code></dfn> - the gist above is reduced |
| 18:12 | <KiChjang> | Domenic, i've got a complaint about ES6 promises |
| 18:12 | <KiChjang> | one developer said that the new promises silently drops exceptions |
| 18:19 | <JakeA> | KiChjang: Chrome, Firefox & Node all log uncaught promise rejections |
| 18:19 | <JakeA> | Safari doesn't report them unfortunately, complain to them 😀 |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | JakeA: sorry, I missed the gist when looking on my phone |
| 18:23 | <annevk> | JakeA: so it seems two things are wrong |
| 18:24 | <annevk> | JakeA: 1. the <dfn> doesn't have an equivalent for attribute |
| 18:24 | <annevk> | JakeA: 2. the <a> doesn't have an event attribute |
| 18:25 | <annevk> | KiChjang: new? |
| 18:26 | <KiChjang> | so basically what happens is that within the callback of a .then(), exceptions thrown does not bubble up to the top level |
| 18:26 | <Domenic> | KiChjang: it sounds like you are just dealing with uninformed developers |
| 18:26 | <KiChjang> | you have to call .catch() in order to handle it |
| 18:26 | <KiChjang> | chrome does a better job and throws an unhandledrejection exception if you don't call .catch |
| 18:27 | <Domenic> | All browsers log. Chrome also has an event. This is a non-issue. |
| 18:27 | <KiChjang> | logging isn't the issue here, the problem is having an explicit event |
| 18:28 | <KiChjang> | you can't use existing try-catch blocks to handle exceptions thrown within a callback in a .then() |
| 18:28 | <Domenic> | Well if the claim is silent then that claim is just false. |
| 18:28 | <Domenic> | Of course, you can't use try-catch on anything async |
| 18:28 | <Domenic> | You can't use try-catch on exceptions in an event handler or setTimeout or ... |
| 18:29 | <KiChjang> | the "silent" here meaning that within the code, there's no way in the outer scope to know about the exception |
| 18:30 | <Domenic> | Sure there is, use .catch() |
| 18:37 | <JakeA> | KiChjang: have you seen async functions? https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/getting-started/primers/async-functions |
| 18:38 | <rbyers> | gsnedders: Yeah, switching accounts is annoying - using your gmail one should be fine. Sent you an invite. |
| 18:38 | <KiChjang> | JakeA, that's chrome-only, isn't it? |
| 18:39 | <JakeA> | annevk: 1 is solved by a parent dfn-for, it was the event attribute I was missing. Cheers! |
| 18:40 | <KiChjang> | so now he's saying that when an exception is thrown within a callback in then(), it really shouldn't be handled like a promise rejection |
| 18:40 | <rbyers> | If anyone else here has filed chromium bugs in the past and would benefit from full access to the chromium bug tracker (edit labels, cc specific people etc.) please let me know. |
| 18:41 | <JakeA> | KiChjang: it's polyfillable using generators. That's covered in the article |
| 18:41 | <Domenic> | KiChjang: in which case he should read https://blog.domenic.me/youre-missing-the-point-of-promises/ |
| 18:41 | <KiChjang> | Domenic, ohh, that's something i can show him, thanks |
| 18:42 | <JakeA> | KiChjang: your developer is wrong here. Especially as throwing and rejecting become the same thing in async functions |
| 18:51 | <KiChjang> | FTR i think the chaining/function composition makes sense, i guess the issue here is getting some programmers who are still stuck in the sync world to understand that this is an entirely different model |
| 18:52 | <KiChjang> | there's still a sense of "when an exception is thrown, i expect the program to crash and burn" |
| 19:05 | <JakeA> | KiChjang: but that never happens in the browser. A thrown error doesn't crash a tab |
| 19:05 | <KiChjang> | let's say the expectation here is that it should behave like sync exceptions |
| 19:10 | <caitp> | KiChjang: async functions aren't chrome-only, they're implemented in WebKit (compile-time flag was removed last week), in ChakraCore and in SpiderMonkey |
| 19:42 | <zcorpan> | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/40735720/does-flow-content-has-to-have-palpable-content/40743860?noredirect=1#comment68741471_40743860 - help? i don't understand what they is asking now |
| 23:00 | <Domenic> | botie: ask rniwa for a repro file for https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/2058 |
| 23:00 | <botie> | will do |
| 23:35 | zcorpan | updated https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/dl (and div/dt/dd, though they might not have gotten through yet) |
| 23:38 | <Domenic> | nice! |
| 23:39 | <Domenic> | Still unsure why MDN has W3C HTML at all... |