| 01:29 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: not sure who is responsible for https://github.com/w3c/streams-api/issues/1 at this point but I guess the Web Platform WG |
| 01:30 | <MikeSmith> | will ask the team contacts |
| 01:31 | <MikeSmith> | I see it’s explicitly listed in the charter https://www.w3.org/2015/10/webplatform-charter.html |
| 01:31 | <MikeSmith> | ah wait that’s not the current one I guess |
| 01:32 | <MikeSmith> | good news it’s not in the current charter https://www.w3.org/2016/11/webplatform-charter.html |
| 01:33 | <MikeSmith> | (I guess everybody else probably already knew that except me) |
| 01:37 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: will ask the team contacts to move https://www.w3.org/TR/streams-api/ to Note. Lemme know what else you think should be done |
| 05:30 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: gutting the editor's draft too I suppose |
| 07:12 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: made the editor’s draft just redirect |
| 07:42 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: yay |
| 07:48 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: and am asking that the TR WD get made into a Note |
| 08:27 | <kochi> | Is Thanksgiving a thing as well in European countries? (just curious) |
| 08:35 | <annevk> | kochi: I don't think so, I only celebrated it once in London with Americans |
| 08:35 | <annevk> | kochi: I might just be missing out though |
| 08:36 | <kochi> | annevk: in Japan we had a national holiday yesterday, but that's it. No big holidays like in US. |
| 08:37 | kochi | was wondering if I can ask anyone for review in non-US countries. |
| 08:37 | <annevk> | kochi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving seems as long as they're not in Canada either you're okay |
| 08:39 | <annevk> | Hah, apparently if you're of a certain relgion it's a thing in the Netherlands too |
| 08:39 | <kochi> | annevk: the article says in Canada it's on the second Monday in October, so US people only at this point ;) |
| 08:39 | <annevk> | I should have read more than the first sentence before saying that I guess |
| 09:34 | <jgraham> | kochi: Nope |
| 09:35 | <jgraham> | Isn't the story that it's giving thanks for not dying when then first reached North America |
| 09:36 | <jgraham> | Obviously people in Europe don't give thanks for that since they didn't go in the first place ;) |
| 09:39 | <kochi> | jgraham: haha, but in northern hemisphere it's the season for harvests, so no wonder if there are festivals of some sorts. |
| 09:52 | <jgraham> | Indeed, although I think they tend to be lower-key |
| 09:52 | <jgraham> | At least in the UK there isn't really anything special at this time of year |
| 10:37 | <JakeA> | annevk: sorry, more bikeshed questions. If I've got an algorithm, <section algorithm="terminate-service-worker-algorithm">, how would I define and link to that? |
| 10:37 | <annevk> | JakeA: I don't know about algorithms |
| 10:37 | <JakeA> | no worries, I'll have a play |
| 10:37 | <annevk> | JakeA: IDL uses them I think these days so you might find an answer there |
| 11:57 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I have a couple more nits... |
| 11:57 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: no worries |
| 11:58 | <MikeSmith> | let’s get it right |
| 12:02 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: btw https://github.com/whatwg/wattsi/pull/30 (“Append a self-link to each heading”) seems to have had the unintended effect of also adding the a[class=self-link]s in the generated TOC |
| 12:03 | <MikeSmith> | so we end up with, e.g., <a href=#toc-introduction>1 Introduction<a href=#introduction class=self-link></a></a> |
| 12:03 | <MikeSmith> | nested links |
| 12:03 | <zcorpan> | JakeA: i think https://rawgit.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/master/docs/index.html#section-links if you want to link to a section |
| 12:03 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: which for one thing the HTML checker doesn’t like so much |
| 12:04 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: oh shit, I thought we had avoided that |
| 12:04 | <JakeA> | zcorpan: I'm currently going with <section algorithm><h3 dfn>Do amazing stuff</h3>… |
| 12:04 | <JakeA> | zcorpan: then <a>Do amazing stuff</a> does (what I assume is) the right thing |
| 12:05 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: seems not but I could be missing something |
| 12:05 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: anyway my bad for not catching in review |
| 12:05 | <MikeSmith> | or maybe I didn’t review that one |
| 12:05 | <MikeSmith> | which if so, still my bad |
| 12:05 | <zcorpan> | JakeA: ah yes, that sounds like the best way to do it |
| 12:05 | <annevk> | hah, it's really my fault |
| 12:06 | <JakeA> | zcorpan: lucky guess on my part then! |
| 12:06 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I'll investigate |
| 12:06 | <zcorpan> | JakeA: i hope you actually name the algorithm "Do amazing stuff" ;-D |
| 12:07 | <JakeA> | zcorpan: ah, bollocks, I'm wrong. While bikeshed will infer an algorithm name from an inner <dfn>, it won't from <h3 dfn>. |
| 12:07 | <JakeA> | I'll file that though |
| 12:07 | <zcorpan> | annevk: hmm https://checker.html5.org/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fdom.spec.whatwg.org%2F complains about space in href. is that bikeshed's fault? |
| 12:08 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: I’m looking back at the wattsi change now too |
| 12:08 | <annevk> | zcorpan: not if the ID actually contains a space |
| 12:09 | <zcorpan> | annevk: <h3 id="ordered sets">Ordered sets</h3> |
| 12:09 | <annevk> | zcorpan: yeah, so bug in DOM |
| 12:09 | <annevk> | zcorpan: for attributes is probably also some kind of bug in DOM |
| 12:10 | <zcorpan> | i can take a stab at fixing |
| 12:10 | <annevk> | ta |
| 12:22 | <JakeA> | annevk: I'm trying to link to https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/webappapis.html#concept-settings-object-origin, is there anything better I can do than add something to <pre class=anchors>? |
| 12:23 | <annevk> | JakeA: <a for="environment settings object">origin</a> |
| 12:24 | <annevk> | JakeA: you can find it through inspect element, not ideal... |
| 12:25 | <JakeA> | annevk: ughhh sorry, I really should have figured that out myself. I tried for="settings object" since that's in the url. Didn't think to inspect. |
| 12:25 | <JakeA> | The dumb questions will stop eventually |
| 12:25 | <JakeA> | maybe |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | dude no worries |
| 12:25 | <annevk> | it's not like it's a lot of effort to answer these questions |
| 12:25 | <JakeA> | well, I really appreciate it |
| 12:31 | <zcorpan> | we should probably have something automated checking the markup of all our specs |
| 12:31 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 12:31 | <MikeSmith> | travis |
| 12:31 | <MikeSmith> | not hard to set up |
| 12:32 | <MikeSmith> | I could add something for the html repo first |
| 12:32 | <zcorpan> | ❤️ |
| 12:37 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: oh, if HTML checker has an API that'd be great indeed |
| 12:37 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I'm getting closer to that self-link bug you found btw |
| 12:37 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: that is, cargo culting my way towards a solution |
| 12:37 | <MikeSmith> | haha |
| 12:38 | <MikeSmith> | FreePascal’n like a boss |
| 12:39 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I got them out multi-page somehow, but not single-page |
| 12:39 | <zcorpan> | hit keys at random until it compiles and does what you want, like how people write HTML, except that always compiles |
| 12:39 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: that seems odd |
| 12:41 | <MikeSmith> | eventually we’re all either gonna have to actually learn FreePascal at some level of actual competency, or else burn wattsi to the ground |
| 12:42 | <MikeSmith> | I like the wattsi code but it is definitely not something quick to change |
| 12:42 | <MikeSmith> | gotta set aside an afternoon and furrow your brow a lot |
| 12:45 | <annevk> | Yeah, not really sure what it would be, but yes |
| 12:52 | <nox> | Will the HTML spec one day list all cross-references in multipage mode? |
| 12:54 | <nox> | "If the insertion point is undefined, call the open() method on the document object (with no arguments). If the user refused to allow the document to be unloaded, then abort these steps. Otherwise, the insertion point will point at just before the end of the (empty) input stream." |
| 12:55 | <nox> | I'm confused by the '(empty)', AFAIK the input stream can be non-empty, with yet-to-be-tokenised data coming from the network. |
| 12:56 | <nox> | Never mind, misparsed that. |
| 12:57 | <nox> | The "otherwise" is about 'if the user refused to allow the document to be unloaded", not the whole sentence. |
| 13:08 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I have a solution but it's not super clean, attempting another... |
| 13:13 | <Ms2ger> | Do I know anyone who works on google docs? |
| 13:24 | <annevk> | zcorpan: https://github.com/whatwg/resources.whatwg.org/commit/b245e7c9adfe8b9e23a4e01904f487685361b5a9 that kind of removes the need for initDfn too, no? |
| 13:25 | <zcorpan> | annevk: ...i guess, yeah |
| 13:25 | <annevk> | zcorpan: although maybe not as simple as the change you made |
| 13:26 | <zcorpan> | i don't want to fiddle with this anymore for now :-) |
| 13:29 | <JakeA> | annevk: should https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-response-response be exported? |
| 13:29 | <zcorpan> | nox: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. wonder if dfn.js can use fragment-links.json |
| 13:29 | <annevk> | JakeA: yeah probably; issue/PR welcome |
| 13:30 | <annevk> | JakeA: I guess add a comment to https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/403 |
| 13:30 | <annevk> | JakeA: once you've found all that are not exported I can push an update and they'll be exported and indexed tomorrow |
| 13:37 | <JakeA> | annevk: I'll update #420 as I find them |
| 13:38 | <annevk> | JakeA: much appreciated |
| 13:52 | <annevk> | Hmm, w3.org is down |
| 13:57 | <mkwst> | Thanksgiving. |
| 13:57 | <mkwst> | Website's on vacation. |
| 14:04 | <annevk> | mkwst: it's funny, but I'm really starting to dislike the US-centrism of so many things in technology |
| 14:04 | <mkwst> | s/in technology// |
| 14:04 | <mkwst> | It's a problem. |
| 14:05 | <MikeSmith> | mkwst: yeah sorry no idea whats borked but systeam is on it (and still early enough that US team are not in a turkey-induced fugue state yet) |
| 14:05 | <MikeSmith> | most of systeam is in EU anyway |
| 14:06 | <MikeSmith> | but when affected servers are at MIT, the fix sometimes requires somebody to actualy go to MIT and kick a server |
| 14:07 | <MikeSmith> | seems like it is coming back now? |
| 14:08 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: nope, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.w3.org |
| 14:08 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: although I just got a 503 on Bugzilla, so maybe |
| 14:12 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: yeah not actually responding for me either now |
| 14:23 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: sorry about all the XML stuff |
| 14:24 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: I think basically what you want to do is compare against the original text and not remove/change what isn't absolutely required |
| 14:24 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: and then if we want some other changes, such as removing a section or the way we refer to things, do that separately from the renaming effort |
| 14:31 | <zcorpan> | annevk: why have a bikeshed macro for "[SNAPSHOT-LINK]" instead of having "LOCAL COPY" directly in the source? |
| 14:32 | <annevk> | zcorpan: it seems like you haven't seen all the recent commit snapshot happenings |
| 14:32 | <annevk> | zcorpan: load https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/ and see the result |
| 14:33 | <zcorpan> | annevk: i've seen the result :-) but i haven't looked into how it's implemented |
| 14:33 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: OK, will do that comparison and make sure I don’t miss anything you didn’t already add a comment on |
| 14:33 | <annevk> | zcorpan: basically build.sh passes different parameters than "LOCAL COPY" |
| 14:34 | <zcorpan> | annevk: ah |
| 14:34 | <MikeSmith> | IMHO the old “XHTML syntax” section was nearly useless in that it essentially just says “It’s XML.” |
| 14:35 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: yeah, but it's analogous to the HTML syntax section so in that respect I kinda like it |
| 14:35 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 14:35 | <MikeSmith> | and given the other xref consequences of dropping it is better not to |
| 15:22 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: about the XML stuff I *think* in the change I just pushed I caught everything |
| 15:23 | <JakeA> | annevk: do you think https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-empty-readablestream should be for="ReadableStream"? It's like a static method |
| 15:23 | <JakeA> | But the definition pertains to readable streams only |
| 15:26 | <MikeSmith> | been staring for so long tonight in my console a green-on-black git diffs for this change that I’m starting to feel like an operator in the Matrix |
| 15:26 | <MikeSmith> | pretty sure I just saw a cat walking backwards |
| 15:27 | <JakeA> | :D |
| 15:28 | <MikeSmith> | annevk: wonder if I should add a note with “The XML syntax for HTML was formerly referred to as "XHTML"” to that “Writing documents in the XML syntax” too [along with the one I added already to the (much earlier in the spec) “HTML vs XML syntax” section] |
| 15:29 | <MikeSmith> | it would mean duplicating the note, having the same one in two places |
| 15:30 | <MikeSmith> | but the spec kind of has the info it is relevant to split across two different far-apart places |
| 15:30 | <annevk> | JakeA: yeah, that should use for |
| 15:31 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: sounds okay |
| 15:31 | <MikeSmith> | k |
| 15:32 | <MikeSmith> | will add and push it to the PR branch |
| 17:43 | <annevk> | JakeA: will review tomorrow most likely |
| 17:44 | <JakeA> | annevk: no rush. Seems like bikeshed's markdown needs 4 indents to do nested lists, so ALL my lists are wrong |
| 17:44 | <JakeA> | fixing |
| 18:02 | <annevk> | JakeA: there's a global indent flag |
| 18:03 | <annevk> | JakeA: though not sure if that's also for markdown |
| 18:03 | JakeA | falls over |
| 18:04 | <JakeA> | omg https://github.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/issues/776#issuecomment-238647405 |
| 18:04 | <JakeA> | annevk: ughghghghgh well, I might unindent it all later |
| 18:04 | <JakeA> | Had no idea about that flag |
| 18:08 | <annevk> | Ooh, even though we discussed Thanksgiving this morning, I was getting confused about the lack of feedback from US-based people on stuff |
| 18:15 | <annevk> | JakeA: oh, would you mind merging the two Fetch PRs? |
| 18:16 | <annevk> | JakeA: if you're actually done I'm happy to land that today so Shepherd can index the terms overnight |
| 18:17 | <JakeA> | annevk: sure, should I squash the commits? |
| 18:17 | <annevk> | JakeA: nah, just add another for the Stream thingie |
| 18:17 | <annevk> | JakeA: I can squash through the GitHub UI |
| 18:18 | <JakeA> | annevk: ohhh I see, when you said merge I thought you meant into master. Gotcha |
| 18:18 | <annevk> | JakeA: ah no, I'll handle that bit |
| 18:19 | <JakeA> | annevk: done |
| 18:25 | <annevk> | JakeA: cool, landed |
| 18:28 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: validating the output and thereby failing the PR is going to be pretty sweet |
| 18:29 | <annevk> | MikeSmith: the only other thing I wish we had and maybe tobie can set up is diff -U of the generated output available somewhere |
| 18:30 | <MikeSmith> | ah yeah that would be nice |
| 18:32 | <MikeSmith> | one thing I realize/remember now is that calling the HTML checker through its web/HTTP API does not give us the original full path to the file, only the filename |
| 18:32 | <annevk> | I guess it should be pretty easy to do that with Travis somehow |
| 18:32 | <MikeSmith> | the diff thing should be yeah |
| 18:33 | <annevk> | Travis could curl the current output, then diff it against the output it just generated, and then upload that somewhere |
| 18:33 | <MikeSmith> | yup |
| 18:34 | <annevk> | Or maybe even better would be to let the snapshot server handle it, although I guess a problem with that is that currently we don't get snapshots for fork-PRs |
| 18:35 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 18:35 | <MikeSmith> | yeah well I guess it makes sense to not have snapshots for those |
| 18:36 | <annevk> | It doesn't really |
| 18:36 | <annevk> | It's a problem with Travis |
| 18:37 | <annevk> | Since you can modify Travis with PRs, if Travis ran for fork-PRs you'd have an exploit |
| 18:37 | <annevk> | But you can't configure Travis to run if a safelist of resources are modified |
| 18:42 | <MikeSmith> | Travis runs for fork-PRs in web-platform-tests |
| 18:45 | <annevk> | Maybe it's only with the build stuff we use, Domenic would know |
| 18:45 | <annevk> | Gonna take a break for a bit, or longer than a bit |
| 18:45 | <MikeSmith> | yeah me too |
| 18:45 | <MikeSmith> | like, sleep |
| 20:41 | <tobie> | annevk: happy to help (depending on how complex it is). Not sure what you need, though. |
| 22:52 | <zcorpan> | https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/2094 is Meta: ? |