| 06:03 | <Domenic> | Sigh. http://exple.tive.org/blarg/2019/04/26/synchronous-text/ |
| 08:03 | <MikeSmith> | Domenic: would be nice if somewhere in all those words there were even just a few that actually stated what the specific problems are with IRC |
| 08:04 | <MikeSmith> | ...problems that the alternatives don’t have |
| 08:04 | <MikeSmith> | well the alternatives all have their own problems too |
| 08:05 | <MikeSmith> | so it would be good to see an explanation of what the requirements are and how IRC does not meet the requiremennts |
| 08:05 | <MikeSmith> | > , it’s irresponsible of us to ask our people – employees, volunteers, partners or anyone else – to work in an environment that we can’t make sure is healthy, safe and productive. |
| 08:07 | <MikeSmith> | like, what it is about IRC that creates an environment that’s not healthy, safe, or productive |
| 08:09 | <MikeSmith> | well as far as productive, a lot of contributors clearly find IRC pretty productive. Otherwise they wouldn’t be relying on it and would have no objection to it being exiled |
| 08:11 | <MikeSmith> | and as far as healthy and safe, personally I find that entire tone of that blog post to be alienating and unnecessarily provocative |
| 08:12 | <MikeSmith> | it is not the kind of communication I would expect to see from somebody in leadership with power and authority for making decisions that have big effects on others |
| 08:13 | <nox> | MikeSmith: Moderation. Threading. Embedded niceties. |
| 08:13 | <nox> | I don't like the decision but there are indeed reasons. |
| 08:16 | <nox> | MikeSmith: Not sure what you think is alienating btw, there are regularly vile spambots on both Freenode and Moznet. |
| 08:16 | <nox> | (Note that I would rather we stay on IRC) |
| 08:17 | <MikeSmith> | nox: it comes across as overly and summarily dismissive of anybody who might disagree with him |
| 08:18 | <nox> | MikeSmith: I don't read it this way. |
| 08:18 | <MikeSmith> | I do |
| 08:18 | <MikeSmith> | I respect that you do not |
| 08:18 | <MikeSmith> | but I do |
| 08:18 | <MikeSmith> | very much |
| 08:18 | <MikeSmith> | > I found this at the top of a draft FAQ I’d started putting together a while back. It might not be what you’d call “complete”, but maybe it is: |
| 08:18 | <nox> | MikeSmith: That you paint it that harshly make it sound like IRC has no issue on that front. |
| 08:18 | <MikeSmith> | Q: Why are we moving away from IRC? IRC is fine! A: IRC is not fine. |
| 08:18 | <MikeSmith> | Q: Seriously? You’re kidding, right? A: I’m dead serious. |
| 08:19 | <MikeSmith> | IRC has all kinds of issues |
| 08:19 | <MikeSmith> | that goes without saying |
| 08:19 | <MikeSmith> | I am not claiming that it has no issues |
| 08:20 | <MikeSmith> | but somehow right now we are using it to have a productive discussion |
| 08:20 | <MikeSmith> | in spite of the issues |
| 08:21 | <MikeSmith> | e-mail has issues |
| 08:22 | <MikeSmith> | twitter has more issues that just about anything else |
| 08:22 | <nox> | MikeSmith: My opinion on this is https://twitter.com/nokusu/status/1122052969309061121 |
| 08:22 | MikeSmith | looks |
| 08:24 | <MikeSmith> | I agree but from the tone of that blog post I don’t get the impression that he is even saying “fix IRC with more IRCv3 niceties and a decent FOSS client supporting those niceties” is an option |
| 08:24 | <MikeSmith> | instead it is fait accompli |
| 15:06 | <domfarolino> | can someone define "embedded niceties" |
| 15:11 | <nox> | domfarolino: Attachements and stuff like that. |
| 15:11 | <domfarolino> | Gotcha |
| 15:47 | <TabAtkins> | MikeSmith: See, for example, the *endemic* CP/harassment spambots that have been plaguing freenode, and made this channel unusable for a while. |