| 02:15 | <Hixie> | http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14 |
| 02:15 | <Hixie> | it's so sad seeing the w3c validator team try to make itself irrelevant |
| 02:15 | <Hixie> | long live hsivonen |
| 02:19 | <kfish> | http://validator.annodex.org/ |
| 02:19 | <kfish> | ^^^ for checking Ogg Theora videos in HTML5 ;-) |
| 02:25 | <Philip`> | http://validator.annodex.org/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.opera.com%2Fhowcome%2F2007%2Fvideo%2FA_New_Computer--small.ogg :-( |
| 02:29 | <kfish> | Philip`, yeah, a common encoding problem ;-) |
| 02:29 | <kfish> | perhaps that should be a warning ... |
| 02:29 | <kfish> | gah, gotta go ... l8r |
| 02:30 | <Philip`> | Is there any chance of having a link to an explanation of what the messages mean? :-) |
| 02:31 | <Philip`> | (and maybe suggestions of how to fix them) |
| 02:31 | <Philip`> | because I haven't got a clue what a granulepos is :-p |
| 02:35 | <mpt> | Granuleposes are delicious delicacies. |
| 03:36 | <aroben_> | does anyone know why HTMLTableElement doesn't have a createTBody method? |
| 03:37 | <Hixie> | in DOM2 HTML, or in HTML5? |
| 03:37 | <aroben_> | Hixie: either |
| 03:37 | <Hixie> | html5 is just whatever dom2 did |
| 03:37 | <Hixie> | dom2... dunno |
| 03:37 | <Hixie> | we could add one if people actually use these apis |
| 03:38 | <aroben_> | Hixie: it's an inconvenient omission |
| 03:38 | <Hixie> | feel free to send a suggestion to whatwg |
| 03:38 | <aroben_> | Hixie: will do |
| 03:38 | <Hixie> | cool |
| 03:38 | <aroben_> | Hixie: thanks |
| 03:38 | <Hixie> | np |
| 03:44 | <othermaciej> | aroben_: do other browsers have that? |
| 03:44 | <othermaciej> | I think the table methods to create specific table part elements are a little silly |
| 03:44 | <aroben_> | othermaciej: i don't know |
| 03:44 | <othermaciej> | it seems weird for table parts to have a convenience way to make them but not most other elements in HTML, beyond createElement |
| 03:45 | <aroben_> | othermaciej: if we're going to have convenience methods at all they might as well be convenient |
| 03:45 | <othermaciej> | well, the really convenient way to dynamically munge up markup is innerHTML |
| 03:46 | <othermaciej> | aroben_: furthermore, the tbody element is optional so the need to ever make one dynamically is low |
| 09:27 | <hsivonen> | http://hsivonen.iki.fi/validator-about/#src |
| 09:27 | <hsivonen> | feedback from Windows XP/Vista users would be appreciated |
| 09:27 | <hsivonen> | (works on Mac OS X and Ubuntu) |
| 09:28 | <hsivonen> | (doesn't run annevk's tests yet) |
| 10:14 | <virtuelv> | hsivonen: Just wondering about one of the terms in your license: "You must not cause the service to access content that is deemed illegal in Finland. " |
| 10:15 | <virtuelv> | knowing that might be hard |
| 10:15 | <hsivonen> | virtuelv: right. I guess that is useless anyway. |
| 10:16 | <virtuelv> | yeah, it's kind of unenforcable |
| 10:16 | <hsivonen> | virtuelv: taken out |
| 10:21 | <hsivonen> | aaargh. Jetty API changed argument meanings without changing the signatures |
| 10:23 | <hsivonen> | no. something even weirder going on with Jetty and AJP |
| 10:31 | <hsivonen> | http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/JETTY-239 fun they won't release a new binary for a total AJP blocker |
| 10:46 | <krijnh> | Is putting a class attribute on <html> acceptable? |
| 10:46 | <krijnh> | Although not allowed by current DTDs |
| 10:49 | <hsivonen> | krijnh: ok in HTML5 |
| 10:49 | <krijnh> | Yeah, I thought so |
| 10:50 | <krijnh> | Was it an error in the html4.01 DTD? |
| 10:50 | <krijnh> | Or was that the id attribute |
| 10:51 | <hsivonen> | krijnh: id at least. can't remember about class |
| 10:51 | <krijnh> | Me neither |
| 10:52 | <krijnh> | Most of the times I add a js_enabled class to the html element with JS |
| 10:56 | <mikeday> | Here is a HTML/CSS rendering question for the assembled multitude |
| 10:56 | <mikeday> | why do empty table cells get a default height of one line? |
| 10:57 | <mikeday> | eg. <tr><td> </td></tr> will not be zero height |
| 10:57 | <hsivonen> | mikeday: there's a CSS line box in there |
| 10:57 | <mikeday> | but for <div> </div>, there isn't? |
| 11:02 | <mikeday> | hmm, hang on. Looks like I got confused. |
| 11:02 | <mikeday> | Bah, each table cell had a secret non-breaking space hidden in it that wasn't showing up in the editor. |
| 11:03 | <mikeday> | That's why it was getting a non-zero height. |
| 12:45 | <Dashiva> | distributive law, coming soon to your selectors syntax |
| 12:48 | <virtuelv> | annevk: yt? |
| 12:49 | <annevk> | yeah |
| 12:50 | <virtuelv> | pm |
| 15:33 | <annevk> | http://nickcowie.com/2007/html5-and-mobile-browsers/ |
| 15:38 | <MikeSmith> | annevk - quoting that, "One reason being by 2010 more people will be accessing the internet by mobile phone than computer" ... I don't know what data he bases that claim on, but I don't reckon it to be accurate. |
| 16:15 | <annevk> | any ubuntu users here? |
| 16:16 | annevk | wonders how to switch his laptop into "presentation mode" |
| 16:16 | <annevk> | hasather, are you using ubuntu? |
| 16:17 | <hendry> | annevk: are you using FullerScreen extension? |
| 16:18 | <annevk> | I'm just using Opera |
| 16:18 | <annevk> | that's not the problem |
| 16:18 | <annevk> | the problem is what to do once I'm connected to a projector |
| 16:19 | <hasather> | annevk: yea |
| 16:19 | <annevk> | hasather, do you know what to do when you're connected to a projector? |
| 16:19 | <hasather> | never done that |
| 17:24 | <met_> | http://www.google.com/trends?q=html%2C+xhtml%2C+xml |
| 17:29 | <Dashiva> | Lots of XHTML in Czech Republic (relatively) |
| 17:30 | met_ | will stop googling for xhtml whole day and it will decrease 8-) |
| 17:30 | <met_> | and the winner is India |
| 18:45 | <annevk> | Presentation at reboot went quite good I think |
| 18:46 | <annevk> | Except that I had to switch to Windows last minute because I couldn't get multiple screens to work in Ubuntu on time |
| 18:54 | <met_> | annevk: are slide from your presentations somewhere? or it is the same html file with svg on background? |
| 18:55 | <annevk> | questions: why have <font>, is there multiple file upload, why not use xhtml, why make the language looser (we don't), how long before we can use it, ... |
| 18:55 | <annevk> | fortunately it's recorded... |
| 18:55 | <annevk> | met_, it's similar, but different |
| 18:55 | <annevk> | not online yet |
| 18:55 | <MikeSmith> | annevk - recored = videotaped? |
| 18:56 | <MikeSmith> | recorded |
| 18:56 | <annevk> | MikeSmith, yeah |
| 18:56 | <MikeSmith> | excellent |
| 18:56 | <MikeSmith> | how long was your actual presentation? |
| 18:56 | <met_> | questions - maybe update http://blog.whatwg.org/faq/ ? |
| 19:05 | <annevk> | MikeSmith, I think 30 minutes |
| 19:05 | <annevk> | MikeSmith, I think QA took about 10, not entirely sure |
| 19:06 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: you mean Q&A? |
| 19:06 | <annevk> | yeah |
| 19:06 | <annevk> | the audience was really involved, it was quite good |
| 19:06 | <annevk> | I guess everyone has opinions about HTML :) |
| 19:06 | <zcorpan_> | oh indeed |
| 19:07 | <Dashiva> | Did they understand document conformance? |
| 19:07 | <annevk> | I'm not sure |
| 19:07 | <annevk> | I don't think I did a good job of explaining it though |
| 19:08 | <annevk> | good point, I should add examples about a document that's syntacally correct but non conforming and one that's syntactically incorrect |
| 19:08 | <annevk> | anyway, got to go |
| 19:08 | <annevk> | got a flight in 30 minutes or so and I need a new book |
| 19:09 | <othermaciej> | HTML for Dummies! |
| 19:10 | zcorpan_ | wonders when there will be an HTML5 for Dummies |
| 19:12 | <met_> | it will be HTML for Dummies 5 |
| 19:13 | <zcorpan_> | oh right |
| 19:14 | <Dashiva> | I thought HTML5 was for dummies (too) |
| 19:20 | <othermaciej> | zing! |
| 20:09 | <zcorpan_> | wtf is this about? http://softwinsite.org/rss-publishing-software/firefox-and-its-advantages/ |
| 20:10 | <met_> | zcorpan_ based on http://neoarticle.com/Article/Firefox-And-Its-Advantages/27309 |
| 20:10 | <met_> | free article service |
| 20:11 | <zcorpan_> | ok, but what is the actual article about? |
| 20:11 | <met_> | do you have website with no content? no problem look on neoarticle.com for some free article, put them on you website and ... you have content. then add google adds and wait for money |
| 20:11 | <met_> | is whole about SEO and money |
| 20:11 | <zcorpan_> | ah |
| 20:11 | <met_> | hardly understandable for technical people 8-) |
| 20:12 | <met_> | not worth reading |
| 20:12 | <zcorpan_> | makes sense, the article is about nothing and there are lots of ads |
| 20:13 | <met_> | looks like all article from this domain vere copied from neoarticle.com |
| 20:14 | <Philip`> | Why would someone copy an article that's not even written in coherent English? There must be much better places to borrow from |
| 20:14 | <zcorpan_> | Philip`: who cares? it has lots of good keywords ;) |
| 20:15 | <zcorpan_> | even WHATWG in there |
| 20:16 | <met_> | Philip` as I have said, it's hardly understandable for technical people 8-) |
| 20:16 | <Philip`> | Oh, good point - I suppose they don't actually care what anyone thinks after having read it, as long as you look at their page once :-) |
| 20:16 | <zcorpan_> | so long as they get money from their ads |
| 20:18 | <Philip`> | Ooh, my advanced SEO techniques have finally given me higher Google ranking on my site's name than a material safety data sheet PDF for some single-sided woven tape |
| 20:19 | Philip` | should start selling links to people |
| 20:20 | met_ | will blackmail Philip` about not telling Google that Philip` uses forbidden technique, so should be banned form google index completely |
| 21:15 | <ddfreyne> | Heh, people are saying HTML should have a </sarcasm> tag — open tag forbidden, close tag required :) |
| 21:19 | <jruderman> | lol |
| 21:24 | <met_> | it was on whatwg mailing list about 2 months ago |
| 21:24 | <met_> | http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-April/011023.html |
| 21:25 | <ddfreyne> | Oh, hadn't seen it on the list yet… awesome. |
| 21:25 | <met_> | read whole thread |
| 21:27 | <Philip`> | It's more compatible with current authoring practices if both the opening and closing tags are optional |
| 22:14 | <gsnedders> | Philip`: yes, but that's a UA requirement! :P |
| 22:14 | <gsnedders> | </sarcasm> |
| 22:37 | <Philip`> | The main UA requirement would be for the UA to be AI-complete, so it can detect sarcasm and allow user stylesheets to highlight it in case the user wasn't reading carefully enough, which shouldn't be that hard |
| 22:37 | <Philip`> | If browsers developers concentrated all their effort on the AI, then once they've finished they can sit back and the rest of the browser can literally write itself, after pointing it at a few C++ tutorials |
| 22:38 | <annevk> | <ai> does that |
| 22:38 | <annevk> | specifically, "data:text/html,<ai>" |
| 22:40 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: are your slides available somewhere? |
| 22:41 | <Dashiva> | Philip`: Then what happens when the browser discovers the HTML tutorials on the web? :) |
| 22:48 | <Philip`> | Dashiva: I suppose you'd have to keep it in a carefully-controlled offline environment and only give it access to a limited number of documents, else it's likely to go insane like anyone else who looks at too much HTML |
| 22:50 | annevk | looks into putting his slides online |
| 22:59 | annevk | used the <u> element |
| 23:01 | <annevk> | Presentation is at http://www.w3.org/mid/op.ts7o3ua264w2qv⊙aooc |
| 23:01 | <zcorpan_> | cheers |
| 23:01 | <zcorpan_> | (as in thanks, not as in bye :) ) |
| 23:02 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: btw, you don't need class="one-liner" |
| 23:02 | <zcorpan_> | body > * { page-break-after:always; } |
| 23:03 | <annevk> | I think this is faster in browsers :p |
| 23:03 | <zcorpan_> | yeah yeah :P |
| 23:03 | <karlUshi> | annevk has made a very good presentation of html5 at the XTech lightning talk |
| 23:10 | <zcorpan_> | annevk: lol at the plug :) |
| 23:11 | <annevk> | there were these Opera marketing people around :) |
| 23:11 | <zcorpan_> | ok :) |
| 23:20 | annevk | aded it to the list |
| 23:42 | Hixie | comes back from meeting with the TAG |
| 23:42 | <Hixie> | they didn't kill me! |
| 23:42 | <zcorpan_> | did you get some soup? |
| 23:42 | <Hixie> | they are apparently reconsidering their versioning finding |
| 23:43 | <zcorpan_> | is that http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning ? |
| 23:43 | <Hixie> | i mean the one in www-arch |
| 23:43 | <Hixie> | but that document is part of the work they're doing yes |
| 23:44 | zcorpan_ | isn't following what TAG are doing |
| 23:44 | <Hixie> | i wasn't either |
| 23:44 | <Hixie> | i pointed out to them that what they were doing wasn't really useful to the html work |
| 23:44 | <Hixie> | nor the css work |
| 23:44 | <Hixie> | they didn't seem horrified by this |
| 23:52 | <zcorpan_> | what is the finding saying? skimming that document didn't get me any wiser |
| 23:54 | <othermaciej> | Hixie: so they didn't hassle you about content sniffing? |
| 23:54 | <Hixie> | zcorpan_: that versioning information must be included |
| 23:54 | <zcorpan_> | ok |
| 23:55 | <Hixie> | othermaciej: they asked me what they could do. i suggested rescinding the mime type finding. we then discussed why the finding was great theoretically, but couldn't work in many cases. |
| 23:55 | <othermaciej> | neat |
| 23:56 | <Hixie> | i don't know if anything will happen |
| 23:56 | <othermaciej> | wow, the diagrams in that versioning finding hurt my brain |
| 23:56 | <Hixie> | (i don't really see the point of the tag frankly) |