| 07:28 | Hixie | replies to an e-mail from 2004 |
| 07:32 | <phroggy> | Hixie: what are the legacy reasons why we can't allow arbitrary markup in <option>? And did you mean to say we can't allow additional elements to be nested inside an <option> element, or also that we can't allow the <option> element to have a new property, which was the suggestion? |
| 07:33 | <Hixie> | <option> parse rules are pretty much set in stone now. And the former. |
| 07:34 | <phroggy> | I kinda like the idea of <option value="foo" icon="foo.png"> |
| 07:34 | <Hixie> | is it something OS UIs do? |
| 07:34 | <Hixie> | (show me) |
| 07:35 | <phroggy> | not generally. |
| 07:35 | <phroggy> | hmm.. |
| 07:35 | <phroggy> | I'm pretty sure I've seen icons in menus on Gnome and KDE... |
| 07:35 | <phroggy> | not necessarily for option lists. |
| 07:36 | <phroggy> | these are the kinds of icons that immediately come to mind: http://www.linuxine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/gnome-delete.jpg |
| 07:37 | <Hixie> | <option> is the wrong element for that, you want <menu><command>, which has an icon="" attribute. |
| 07:37 | <phroggy> | ah, sweet. |
| 07:38 | <phroggy> | but while this example is obviously from a menu, I can definitely imagine situations where icons on options would be nice. |
| 07:39 | <phroggy> | I'm a big fan of little icons like those, helping the user to more quickly recognize what they're looking at. |
| 07:39 | <Hixie> | if it was common UI, then sure |
| 07:40 | <phroggy> | maybe something for HTML 6, when OS UIs have caught up to my imagination... |
| 07:41 | <Hixie> | :-) |
| 07:42 | phroggy | wonders how long it will take Microsoft to post the transcript of last week's IE chat |
| 07:43 | <phroggy> | I think they ignored my questions about <input type="search"> and placeholder. |
| 07:43 | <phroggy> | but it's possible I just missed their response. |
| 07:45 | Hixie | replies to yet more 2004 e-mail |
| 07:45 | <gsnedders> | hiho |
| 07:45 | <Hixie> | morning |
| 07:46 | gsnedders | is five rows behind you |
| 07:46 | <gsnedders> | smedero is beside me |
| 07:46 | smedero | needs coffee |
| 07:46 | <gsnedders> | drugs-- |
| 07:47 | <Lachy> | aren't the coffee machines set up outside yet? |
| 07:47 | <smedero> | lachy: when I walked by they weren't up quite yet |
| 07:51 | <gsnedders> | Is HTML broken? |
| 07:51 | <Hixie> | yes? |
| 07:51 | <Hixie> | if it wasn't broken we wouldn't be fixing it! |
| 07:51 | <gsnedders> | :) |
| 07:53 | phroggy | breaks off another little piece of it |
| 07:57 | <annevk4> | wow, network fails |
| 08:15 | <Hixie> | where did anne go |
| 08:15 | <Hixie> | someone near anne poke him online again |
| 08:16 | <Hixie> | apparentl "near anne" is me. ok then. |
| 10:05 | <Hixie> | this network is horrible |
| 10:06 | <Hixie> | this hotel holds this conference every two years, you'd think they'd have worked out capacity by now |
| 10:06 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: Why do we come back? |
| 10:07 | <Hixie> | dunno |
| 10:08 | <Lachy> | I'm not having any problems with the network today. I only find it inconvenient because of the login process |
| 10:08 | <Hixie> | we're geting ~25% packet loss and >1000ms pings |
| 10:09 | <Lachy> | pinging to what host? |
| 10:09 | <Hixie> | `any |
| 10:09 | <Hixie> | the second hop is the problem |
| 10:11 | <Lachy> | pinging google.com a few times, I get packet loss raning from 0% to 100% |
| 10:11 | <Hixie> | right, we're averaging about 25% |
| 10:13 | <Hixie> | and about 800ms average ping, stddev 500ms |
| 10:14 | <gsnedders> | 502.225ms average, stddev 188.816ms here |
| 10:14 | <gsnedders> | only 10% loss |
| 10:15 | <Hixie> | which is about as bad as you can get before it doesn't count as a network anymore |
| 10:16 | <Hixie> | how many pings are you testing over? |
| 10:16 | <Hixie> | make sure to test over a long sample |
| 10:16 | <gsnedders> | 10 |
| 10:16 | <Hixie> | with such a high variance, you have to wait a while |
| 10:16 | <Hixie> | [24~--- 80.10.46.241 ping statistics --- |
| 10:16 | <Hixie> | [24~--- 80.10.46.241 ping statistics ---93 packets transmitted, 65 packets received, 30% packet loss |
| 10:16 | <Hixie> | round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 201.165/770.687/2145.384/449.159 ms |
| 10:17 | <karlUshi> | the hotel is not in charge of the network. Orange is. The worse thing is that it is exactly the same engineers from two years ago. And the issues have been clearly introduced with the bad previous experiences |
| 10:18 | <Hixie> | wow, you'd think orange would be able to do better |
| 10:19 | <gsnedders> | 100 packets transmitted, 97 packets received, 3% packet loss |
| 10:19 | <gsnedders> | round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 221.420/558.546/1532.691/243.504 ms |
| 10:19 | <othermaciej> | Mr Last Week seems to really dig the name I assigned him |
| 10:20 | <othermaciej> | but I don't seem to have made his blog since he adopted said sobriquet as his own |
| 10:20 | <othermaciej> | "scathing comment about w3c management" |
| 10:21 | <othermaciej> | "disdainful scorn towards standards prescriptivists" |
| 10:21 | <Lachy> | doing a traceroute, there seems to be abour 4 problematic hops spread between here and google.colm |
| 10:21 | <Lachy> | *google.com |
| 10:22 | <Hixie> | once you hit one problematic hop, you can't tell if the others are problematic |
| 10:22 | <othermaciej> | "self-important statement of trivial truth" |
| 10:22 | <Lachy> | oh, right |
| 10:22 | <Hixie> | apparently i shouldn't complain about the network |
| 10:22 | <Hixie> | i just got disconnected altogether :-) |
| 10:23 | <Lachy> | Hixie, did you decide to skip this session, or are you sitting elsewhere in here? |
| 10:24 | <Hixie> | i'm in the hall |
| 10:24 | <Hixie> | i was going to work |
| 10:24 | <Hixie> | but that plan backfired |
| 10:24 | <Hixie> | since the network is unusable |
| 10:24 | <gsnedders> | I just lost power |
| 10:24 | <Lachy> | heh |
| 10:24 | <Hixie> | s/hall/corridor/ |
| 10:26 | <nessy> | I was really looking forward to the plenary, but have been rather disappointed so far :( |
| 10:26 | <Hixie> | oh? |
| 10:26 | <Lachy> | I was looking forward to it only because it's the first one I've been to |
| 10:31 | <Hixie> | ok i can't work on this network. bbl. |
| 11:56 | <Philip`> | If people are going to insist on putting annoying video adverts on the web, I wish they at least knew how to do it without horrible interlacing effects |
| 13:53 | <Hixie> | annevk4: so is the the case where both a parent and a child element of that parent element have the tabindex attribute set unclear? |
| 13:55 | <Lachy> | Hixie, here's the documentations for opera's implementation of showNotification() in widgets that we were talking about last night. http://dev.opera.com/libraries/widgetobject/docs/widget.dml#showNotification |
| 13:55 | <Lachy> | it seems quite different from the one in HTML5 |
| 13:55 | <Hixie> | k |
| 13:56 | <annevk4> | Hixie, I probably should have checked :/ |
| 13:56 | <Hixie> | heh |
| 13:56 | <Hixie> | let me know if it's unclear :-) |
| 14:08 | <arve__> | http://www.vpmujuruoffice.gov.zw/ has <topmargin="1" leftmargin="0"> in a noframes section |
| 14:09 | <arve__> | ( <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0"> ) |
| 14:11 | <annevk4> | http://source.android.com/ |
| 15:09 | <hsivonen> | looks like the network here breaks AFP |
| 15:17 | <Lachy> | Has anyone seen Marcos around anywhere? |
| 15:20 | <hsivonen> | I can't upload my slides due to TCP connections not finishing properly :-( |
| 15:21 | <Philip`> | Tunnel through SSH, so the connection never needs to finish |
| 16:08 | <hsivonen> | Philip`: tunneling scp over ssh isn't making my scp connection end |
| 16:27 | <Lachy> | apparently the economic crisis will both favour open source http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/21/0116221&from=rss as well as elimiate it http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/22/1354207&from=rss |
| 16:28 | <Dashiva> | It's tempting to make a joke about eliminating it = doing it a favor :) |
| 16:56 | <hsivonen> | Is Orange limiting uploads? |
| 16:57 | hsivonen | gives up on trying to get the slides to a server |
| 16:58 | <annevk4> | we uploaded videos |
| 16:59 | <Hixie> | gsnedders: yt? games? |
| 17:00 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: I'm here |
| 17:00 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: I'll come at the end of this, the final lightening talk |
| 17:01 | <gsnedders> | Hixie: You just outside the door? |
| 17:01 | <Hixie> | yeah |
| 17:22 | <MikeSmith> | W3C tech plenary now wrapped up for the day |
| 17:22 | <MikeSmith> | more fun on the way tomorrow |
| 18:14 | zcorpan | got responses from the xhtml2 wg |
| 18:14 | zcorpan | has now replied |
| 18:15 | <zcorpan> | http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Oct/thread.html |
