| 01:08 | <MikeSmith> | is there an online tool for checking that background colors conform to WCAG recommendations? |
| 01:09 | <Rik`> | MikeSmith: you mean for contrast ? |
| 01:09 | <MikeSmith> | Rik`: yeah |
| 01:09 | <Rik`> | http://snook.ca/technical/colour_contrast/colour.html |
| 01:10 | <Rik`> | this one gives you the HP and WCAG2 rules |
| 01:10 | <MikeSmith> | Rik`: cool, thanks |
| 02:50 | <nessy> | Hixie: you finished the WebSRT section!? |
| 02:52 | <nessy> | now I am curious how to do styling, such as background color and general font settings etc |
| 02:55 | <MikeSmith> | yoshiaki: if the dudes you're meeting with have any specific questions I can help with, lemme know |
| 02:56 | <MikeSmith> | not trying to be rude, but don't think I need to be there for the whole meeting |
| 03:06 | <MikeSmith> | http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1376#c4 |
| 03:06 | <MikeSmith> | <DmitryBaranovsk> “We have chosen intentionally to not support SVG in the browser to save space; full SVG adds over 1M to the webkit image size.” No comments. |
| 03:08 | <boblet> | MikeSmith: one of the most bone-headed decisions they made |
| 03:09 | <MikeSmith> | a disappointing one, at the very least |
| 03:10 | <MikeSmith> | for better or worse, SVG has become a de facto piece of the Web platform |
| 03:11 | <boblet> | given current high-dpi mobile developments, not having SVG is downright annoying |
| 03:12 | <MikeSmith> | to see a browser team unilaterally choosing to omit key pieces of the Web platform from particular OSes/platforms is really disappointing |
| 03:14 | <boblet> | especially one that would have saved me a lot of work :/ |
| 03:15 | <aho> | ff4 will finally support svg as img's src or as background-image |
| 03:16 | <aho> | opera did support that since ages and chrome/chromium also supports it for a while now |
| 03:16 | <MikeSmith> | boblet: I could somewhat understand disabling some things on non-smartphone devices that don't have adequate resources |
| 03:17 | <aho> | and then i can finally get rid of those stupid object tags |
| 03:17 | <MikeSmith> | boblet: but I wonder which devices, exactly, are the ones that they are shipping Android on that don't have adequate resources |
| 03:17 | <MikeSmith> | boblet: certainly I would think the HTC devices have adequate resources for it |
| 03:18 | <MikeSmith> | here's hoping for ChromeOS mobile |
| 03:19 | <Hixie> | nessy: still have to do the rendering rules for it, and the DOM API, and a few minor other things |
| 03:20 | <MikeSmith> | I can imagine the argument being made that if a user has a device that doesn't have enough resources for handling SVG, then it's unlikely the user trying to browse the Web on that device is going to have a very adequate user experience anyway |
| 03:20 | <nessy> | Hixie: have you thought about adding styling by reusing CSS? |
| 03:20 | nessy | doesn't remember if we had that discussion |
| 03:20 | <Hixie> | nessy: yeah it'll be CSS-based |
| 03:21 | <nessy> | through a link at the top or something? curious to see an example |
| 03:21 | <MikeSmith> | boblet: because such a device would likely like have adequate resources for handling AJAXy sites that make much use of Javascript |
| 03:22 | <boblet> | MikeSmith: like I said, boneheaded. bah |
| 03:22 | <boblet> | in the absence of foolip can anyone tell me how I’d add microdatajs to a page and generate “download this vcard/ical” links? |
| 03:25 | <MikeSmith> | boblet: yeah, blech.. like God does in Revelations 3:16 "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth" |
| 03:25 | <MikeSmith> | spue spue |
| 03:26 | <boblet> | MikeSmith: aah, i needed spue.js huh ;) |
| 03:26 | <boblet> | I see your spue and raise you bah humbug |
| 03:26 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 03:27 | <boblet> | for a nested microdata item, does the parent property have the value of all contained text, or only act as a pointer for the nested name-value pair? |
| 03:27 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: fwiw, I added per-element "Microdata property value" subsections to my markup ref |
| 03:27 | <MikeSmith> | e.g., http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/object.html#object-microdata |
| 03:27 | <Hixie> | i saw |
| 03:27 | <Hixie> | looks good |
| 03:28 | <Hixie> | dunno how you'll explain it to people who think microdata isn't in html :-) |
| 03:28 | <Hixie> | nessy: using the style sheets in the HTML file |
| 03:28 | <boblet> | e.g. for this code sample: |
| 03:28 | <boblet> | <p itemscope>The <span itemprop="band">Salter Cane</span> drummer is <span itemprop="members" itemscope><span itemprop="name">Jamie Freeman</span>.</span></p> |
| 03:28 | <nessy> | so no reference in the websrt file itself? |
| 03:29 | <Hixie> | nessy: if it takes off we can add something to the srt file, dunno if it's really necessary though |
| 03:29 | <boblet> | is members equal to Jamie Freeman, the property name with the value Jamie Freeman, or both? |
| 03:29 | <Hixie> | nessy: i'd imagine most of the styling will be for web authors trying to make their subs fit their site |
| 03:29 | <Hixie> | nessy: most of the time, subtitles on dvds and the like aren't styled at all |
| 03:29 | <nessy> | Hixie: makes for little reusability, I guess |
| 03:30 | <Hixie> | styles aren't often reused anyway |
| 03:30 | <nessy> | Hixie: yeah, that's the current state of tech - I was hoping we can get something more powerful for the web ;) |
| 03:30 | <Hixie> | well for the web we'll have css :-) |
| 03:30 | <nessy> | Hixie: and thus also for the media players |
| 03:30 | <nessy> | yeah :) |
| 03:31 | <nessy> | I'm thinking css features will increasingly be able to be rendered in media players |
| 03:31 | <nessy> | that's part of "taking off" I guess |
| 03:42 | <nessy> | Hixie: did you describe the full spec as at http://damowmow.com/temp/srtspec ? |
| 03:43 | <nessy> | ah, don't worry - I was confused - I wondered if you missed the D, L, T, S etc spec - but it's there |
| 03:53 | <yoshiaki> | MikeSmith, thank you for your kind! |
| 03:53 | <MikeSmith> | hai |
| 03:56 | <MikeSmith> | paul_irish: html5rocks.com could maybe use a feed |
| 03:57 | <MikeSmith> | for teh "Latest additions" part |
| 04:14 | <MikeSmith> | somebody may want to point out to Ben Schwarz on the whatwg mailing list that the value of the rel attribute is a space-separated list of values |
| 04:14 | <MikeSmith> | so his <a rel="prefetch next">Next page</a> example is valid |
| 04:14 | <MikeSmith> | http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/links.html#attr-hyperlink-rel |
| 05:25 | <MikeSmith> | hmm, maybe also point out that "prefetch" is not allowed link type for <a> anyway... |
| 06:28 | <MikeSmith> | there's no way to selectively apply character formatting to individual words in a string of CSS generated text, right? |
| 06:28 | <MikeSmith> | I mean, in the value of a CSS "content: " property |
| 06:29 | <MikeSmith> | boblet: ↑ ? |
| 06:29 | <MikeSmith> | I want to prepend the text "The following example is invalid." |
| 06:29 | <MikeSmith> | and I want just the word "invalid" to be bold |
| 07:44 | Slaanesh | ponders MikeSmith's question |
| 07:49 | <Slaanesh> | I think the answer was that there's no ::first-word |
| 07:49 | <Slaanesh> | And no other selectors on the word level either |
| 08:15 | <FastJack> | heh, and no nth-word? ;) |
| 09:30 | <boblet> | mikesmith: you want css3-content with p:before {content:"invalid";font-weight:bold;} p:before(2) {content:"This is ";}. unfortunately browsers do not love you. |
| 09:32 | <asmodai> | hsivonen: Is that 3.6.7 a beta or not? |
| 09:32 | <boblet> | mikesmith: you could add 2nd :before on a nested or parent element if there’s a convenient one, otherwise the super-fugly hack would be p::after {content:"This is ";float:left;margin-right:.3em;} |
| 09:35 | <boblet> | mikesmith: check chat log — just replied |
| 09:35 | <MikeSmith> | k |
| 09:56 | <boblet> | bbl |
| 09:56 | <boblet> | oh anyone know when foolip will be around? |
| 09:57 | <boblet> | (guessing he’s off enjoying RL or something atm) |
| 10:00 | <nielsle> | If browsers get full screen html5 capability, how easy will it be to create a page that looks like a login screen and steal peoples passwords? |
| 10:02 | <kennyluck> | lol |
| 10:03 | <annevk> | nielsle, there will be keyboard restrictions |
| 10:07 | <nielsle> | So in order to make a fully canvas based solution then I need to write some javascript that reads which key people are pressing at a given type, and write the corresponding "*" in the correct area of the canvas. |
| 10:08 | <nielsle> | type -> time |
| 10:08 | <annevk> | well you cannot, because there are keyboard restrictions |
| 10:09 | <nessy> | like going into TV remote control mode? ;) |
| 10:15 | <MikeSmith> | nielsle: there's recently been on a long discussion on the whatwg mailing list about how to make full-screen video secure |
| 10:15 | <MikeSmith> | dunno if you saw that yet or not |
| 10:17 | <nielsle> | I am googling for it :) |
| 10:24 | <nielsle> | Ah, here it is. Thank you for the answers. I feel safer on the internet now. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.w3c.whatwg.discuss/24221/focus=24271 |
| 11:12 | <Philip`> | jgraham: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment_and_arts/10507286.stm may be relevant to your interests |
| 11:13 | <Philip`> | (if you haven't seen it already) |
| 12:37 | <gsnedders> | jgraham: We have Jeppe to replace you, FYI. |
| 12:37 | <gsnedders> | (for fika) |
| 12:58 | <remysharp> | I might be missing something here, but any ideas every browser renders a canvas 1px width line as 2px? example: http://jsbin.com/apeti3/3 |
| 12:58 | <remysharp> | (sorry - I said every - I've not checked IE9pre3 yet) |
| 13:00 | <Peter`> | Looks like the browser is trying to render it between the two pixels and thus applies anti-aliasing |
| 13:03 | <annevk> | yeah, iirc lines are drawn from the middle point |
| 13:03 | <Peter`> | If you move the line to 10.5x10.5 instead of 10x10 it's perfectly sharp |
| 13:03 | <annevk> | or you could use rectangles, though that may be slower |
| 13:04 | <remysharp> | Peter`: blimey - who knew! |
| 13:04 | <remysharp> | cheers for the tip |
| 13:06 | <Peter`> | No problem :) |
| 13:07 | <annevk> | the spec prolly ought to define it |
| 13:11 | <Peter`> | 11 replies on Twitter, two here, hmmmm |
| 13:12 | <remysharp> | Peter`: I'm never sure how quick replies come in on #whatwg :-) |
| 13:12 | <remysharp> | it makes for a good backup :) |
| 13:14 | <Peter`> | Indeed :-) |
| 13:26 | <boblet> | remysharp: IRC is good for those of us without thousands of groupies :P |
| 13:28 | <remysharp> | boblet: groupies help ;-) |
| 13:29 | <boblet> | remysharp: lucky for some — none of the bots and spammers following me help much :) |
| 13:33 | <annevk> | remysharp, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jul/0040.html |
| 13:34 | <remysharp> | annevk: not mine I'm afraid to say (if that was your intent) |
| 13:35 | <annevk> | oh, I thought you were behind html5rocks |
| 13:35 | <remysharp> | annevk: nah, html5demos - hence the ugly grey :) |
| 13:35 | <boblet> | annevk: that’s Chrome dev team, paul_irish is one contact |
| 13:35 | <annevk> | ah okay |
| 13:35 | <remysharp> | Paul Irisi might be a starting point |
| 13:35 | <annevk> | it doesn't really matter |
| 13:37 | <boblet> | annevk: it’s all in svn and you can add patches to comments in the Google Code repo |
| 13:38 | <boblet> | and file bugs. there was already a bug for transition examples being webkit only, but I already submitted patches for most of them |
| 13:38 | <annevk> | good good; it seems we need to change the specification and Opera to match WebKit |
| 13:40 | <boblet> | annevk: http://code.google.com/p/html5-slides/issues/detail?id=20&can=1&q=css |
| 13:40 | <boblet> | your issue is different tho so file a new issue |
| 13:44 | <Philip`> | remysharp: http://diveintohtml5.org/canvas.html#pixel-madness |
| 13:44 | <remysharp> | Philip`: damn that man, I didn't cover any of that madness in Bruce and my book! |
| 13:44 | <remysharp> | well - at least it's a bit of proof that we didn't read his book first :D |
| 13:45 | <boblet> | tehehe |
| 13:52 | <Philip`> | remysharp: If I remember correctly, he didn't cover it either, until I pointed out why the lines in his examples were all fuzzy :-) |
| 13:52 | <boblet> | the advantage of writing in the open :) |
| 13:52 | <boblet> | (not that I am) |
| 13:52 | <remysharp> | Philip`: absolutely the advantage of an online book. Bruce and I wanted to something similar, but our publishers weren't game :( |
| 13:54 | <annevk> | can't you just write and then find a publisher later? |
| 13:54 | Philip` | would be happy to review offline books too, in exchange for vast quantities of money :-p |
| 13:55 | <boblet> | remysharp: I wanted to do the book as a website then generate the print copy via print styles. naive fool that I was |
| 13:55 | <boblet> | (that’s why oli.jp is quite reminiscent of print) |
| 13:56 | <Philip`> | Would publishers prefer you to do the book as a website then copy-and-paste into Word before they edit and print it? |
| 13:56 | <boblet> | Philip`: would you like to read about microdata? ;) |
| 13:57 | <Philip`> | boblet: Unfortunately I know very little about that |
| 13:57 | zcorpan_ | is happy to review html5 books |
| 13:57 | <boblet> | Philip`: publishers prefer you use their shitty-ass MS Word templates right from the start |
| 13:58 | boblet | was rather depressed to discover his website had better typography than a professional publisher did |
| 14:01 | <boblet> | I actually wanted to have an online version of the book be part of the purchase price |
| 14:03 | <boblet> | publishers are just as prehistoric as record labels and movie studios sadly (well apart from a couple of indy exceptions which already have HTML5 books coming out) |
| 14:03 | <Philip`> | Do people still make books with CDs inside the back cover? |
| 14:03 | <Philip`> | You could put the web site content onto that |
| 14:04 | <Philip`> | (That would be entirely missing the point of the web, but it'd be better than nothing) |
| 14:06 | <boblet> | Philip`: nah they have code snippet sites. but it’d be much better to have a website that you could then store locally, copy&paste from, access on a bunch of devices etc |
| 14:06 | <boblet> | (as in a website with the full content of the book) |
| 14:07 | <annevk> | so why seek out a publisher that prevents that? |
| 14:07 | annevk | still doesn't quite get it |
| 14:07 | <annevk> | is there more money to be made or so if you give in freedom? |
| 14:28 | <boblet> | annevk: in my case I’m not famous, so it’s selling my soul for the cred that comes with being published |
| 14:28 | <boblet> | sad but true |
| 14:29 | <boblet> | I suspect the current model will be in crisis in a couple of years as Five Simple Steps and A Book Apart start to steal all the good authors |
| 14:30 | <boblet> | and other indy publishers, self-publishing etc |
| 14:30 | <boblet> | so re: microdata “Properties can also have values that are URLs. This is achieved using the a element and its href attribute, the img element and its src attribute, or other elements that link to or embed external resources” |
| 14:30 | <boblet> | why doesn’t mpilgrim have script in his list? |
| 14:31 | <boblet> | http://diveintohtml5.org/extensibility.html#property-values |
| 14:39 | <zcorpan_> | because script is not listed in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/microdata.html#values |
| 14:40 | <zcorpan_> | "The URL property elements are the a, area, audio, embed, iframe, img, link, object, source, and video elements." |
| 14:40 | <boblet> | zcorpan_: aah, I didn’t check the encoding part. d’oh |
| 14:40 | <boblet> | thanks |
| 14:49 | <annevk> | boblet, there's just as much cred for publishing online, no? |
| 14:50 | <annevk> | boblet, if not more as it makes it much easier to see if your stuff is actually legit :) |
| 14:51 | <boblet> | annevk: I think you need to have some level of network first. there’s also the … monetisation issue |
| 14:52 | <boblet> | (not that publishing traditionally makes any money unless you have a bazillion reprints) |
| 14:52 | <boblet> | that’s what I have been doing too with my weblog and html5doctor :) |
| 14:53 | boblet | wonders if his lack of network is due to his stuff not being legit |
| 15:01 | <boblet> | (psst that was everyone’s chance to say “no, no! your stuff is great!” btw :P ) |
| 15:05 | <Dashiva^2> | I think they stumbled on your use of 'legit' |
| 15:07 | <akamike> | Dr boblet your incisions are of the highest quality and i have never seen a man attempt 3 double bypasses at the same time |
| 15:07 | <akamike> | and succeed... |
| 15:07 | <annevk> | boblet, a book is different from a couple of blog posts, but maybe indeed you are not legit :p |
| 15:07 | <Workshiva> | As dual-classed ranger/ranger I can dual wield my dual wield |
| 15:10 | <boblet> | akamike: you are a scholar and a gentleman |
| 15:10 | <boblet> | (the rest of you rabble on the other hand… :P ) |
| 15:10 | <boblet> | hehe |
| 15:11 | <boblet> | here’s hoping I climb the mountain, indeed |
| 15:11 | <boblet> | bbl |
| 15:16 | <zcorpan_> | Philip`: i get a fraud warning in opera for philip.html5.org :) |
| 15:18 | <annevk> | wow |
| 15:18 | <annevk> | quite the bug |
| 15:19 | <Peter`> | remysharp: I think your Tron mmo uses an outdated version of WebSocket, it's missing the 'sec-websocket-origin' header |
| 15:19 | <remysharp> | Peter`: yeah, it doesn't work on Chrome 6 |
| 15:19 | <remysharp> | :( |
| 15:20 | <Peter`> | Works fine on Firefox though |
| 15:21 | <remysharp> | yeah - flash shim ftw :) |
| 15:21 | <remysharp> | not mine - obviously someone way smarter :) |
| 15:27 | <Philip`> | zcorpan_: It'd be nice if the warning gave some details that made it possible to debug |
| 15:27 | <Philip`> | e.g. to determine if it's a false positive or not |
| 18:05 | <llrcombs> | hey, what's the rule for right-clicking on <object>s and <embed>s? |
| 18:36 | karlushi | wonders if webkit became stricter for cookies |
| 18:36 | <karlushi> | encoding |
| 18:38 | <Workshiva> | Dear lazy IRC, can I customize the time zone used for \t in a bash prompt? |
| 18:41 | <karlushi> | Workshiva, do you want the local time, or the TZ info? |
| 18:41 | <Philip`> | Workshiva: Do you want to change it independently of other applications? |
| 18:42 | <Workshiva> | I'd be fine with changing it in all applications, but I can't change the system timezone |
| 18:43 | <Philip`> | You could put TZ=Whatever in .bash_profile |
| 18:44 | <Philip`> | (where Whatever is something from /usr/share/zoneinfo) |
| 18:45 | <karlushi> | do not use \t and use date something like?: export PS1="[\$(date +%k:%M:%S)]> " |
| 18:45 | <Workshiva> | TZ seems to work |
| 18:46 | <Workshiva> | Thanks lazy IRC! |
| 18:46 | Philip` | thanks http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/guide-localization.xml |
| 19:17 | karlushi | is discovering the webkit difference of handling cookies with commas http://cookietest.livelyconsulting.com/ |
| 19:32 | karlushi | wonders if webkit has started to implement https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-httpstate-cookie/ |
| 19:37 | <llrcombs> | hey, what's the rule for right-clicking on <object>s and <embed>s? |
| 19:44 | <annevk> | karlushi, I suspect so; given how abarth usually goes about things |
| 19:50 | <llrcombs> | assuming it's an empty <object> (say, <object id="nothing"></object>) |
| 19:51 | <llrcombs> | should the UA display its own context-menu |
| 19:51 | <llrcombs> | or should it ignore it (since no plugin is loaded) |
| 19:56 | <karlushi> | annevk, thanks |
| 20:01 | <karlushi> | http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/44/TCP%20and%20the%20Lower%20Bound%20of%20Web%20Performance%20Presentation.pdf |
| 20:02 | <annevk> | llrcombs, it's up to the UA |
| 20:02 | <annevk> | llrcombs, though if the element is not displayed at all there's prolly no context menu for it :) |
| 20:12 | <llrcombs> | no, assuming it's displayed, but there's nothing loaded in it |
| 20:17 | <annevk> | nothing much really |
| 20:17 | <annevk> | semantically in that case it's like <span> |
| 20:17 | <annevk> | so you could do whatever you do for <span> I suppose |
| 20:22 | <llrcombs> | so, then, WebKit's doing it wrong |
| 20:22 | <llrcombs> | good! |
| 20:22 | <llrcombs> | good |
| 20:22 | <llrcombs> | I've already got a bug report in for that |
| 20:23 | <llrcombs> | just wanted to confirm that what I thought was the right way was, in fact, the right way |
| 20:23 | <llrcombs> | except, wouldn't it be a block-level element (e.g. a <div>), not a <span>? |
| 20:23 | <AryehGregor> | I'm pretty sure the spec doesn't say anything here. |
| 20:24 | <AryehGregor> | Behavior is undefined, as with most UI-related things. |
| 20:24 | <AryehGregor> | The spec doesn't assume that there's any such thing as a context menu on your platform (and on some platforms, indeed, there's not). |
| 20:25 | <llrcombs> | heh |
| 20:25 | <llrcombs> | true |
| 20:26 | <llrcombs> | and the spec isn't exactly crystal-clear on <embed>s and <object>s either |
| 20:28 | <AryehGregor> | Because their functionality is really "give control to some non-HTML program, quite possibly a binary blob controlled by an entirely different party from the browser implementer". |
| 20:29 | <llrcombs> | exactly |
| 20:29 | <llrcombs> | but the <object> tag was always a bad notation, imho |
| 21:03 | <annevk> | llrcombs, nah, <object> like <img> is inline during fallback |
| 21:03 | <annevk> | (not that it should matter for what kind of context menu you would get) |
| 21:28 | <AryehGregor> | Where is it specced how big iframes should be if they have no height or width? |
| 21:28 | AryehGregor | checks the rendering section |
| 21:30 | AryehGregor | doesn't see it |
| 21:41 | <zcorpan_> | i think it's http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/rendering.html#embedded-content-2 and http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visudet.html#inline-replaced-width |
| 21:43 | <zcorpan_> | or maybe it's not defined properly in html5 |
| 21:43 | <AryehGregor> | It doesn't say what the intrinsic height and width are supposed to be, though? |
| 21:44 | <AryehGregor> | (also, I'm not seeing from CSS what the height is if there's no intrinsic height, width, or ratio) |
| 21:47 | <zcorpan_> | it says 150px height for block/inline-block/float, but iframe is inline in opera/webkit/firefox |
| 21:47 | <annevk> | CSS 2.1 defines that |
| 21:47 | <annevk> | ultimate fallback is 150/300 |
| 21:47 | <annevk> | for replaced content with no intrinsic height/width |
| 21:48 | <AryehGregor> | Where does it say 150px height here? http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visudet.html#inline-replaced-width |
| 21:49 | <zcorpan_> | an iframe pointing to an svg with intrinsic width/height still uses 300x150 |
| 21:49 | <AryehGregor> | Yes, an iframe without seamless has to be defined to have no intrinsic width or height or ratio. |
| 21:49 | <AryehGregor> | It doesn't seem like that is defined anywhere. |
| 21:49 | <AryehGregor> | I'll file a bug, I guess. |
| 21:50 | <annevk> | AryehGregor, that's width |
| 21:50 | <annevk> | AryehGregor, it says 300 there |
| 21:51 | <AryehGregor> | Oh, oops. |
| 21:51 | <annevk> | AryehGregor, height is defined here http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visudet.html#inline-replaced-height where it says 150 |
| 21:51 | <AryehGregor> | I see, it has separate sections for height and width. |
| 21:51 | <annevk> | and has had for a decade or so :) |
| 21:53 | <zcorpan_> | oh that section covered inline as well. i obviously skipped the first few words in the heading |
| 21:53 | <zcorpan_> | anyway, those are still not accurate for iframe since browsers always use 300x150 as default |
| 21:54 | <annevk> | oh, you're right |
| 21:54 | <annevk> | I think I pointed that out once |
| 21:54 | <annevk> | that HTML5 should have default style rules for it |
| 21:54 | <annevk> | I wonder if I ever filed a bug on that or emailed... |
| 21:55 | <zcorpan_> | if it was before whatwg last call, it fell between the cracks |
| 21:55 | AryehGregor | just filed http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10091 |
| 21:57 | <annevk> | meh |
| 21:58 | <annevk> | iframe { height:150px; width:300px } is needed |
| 21:58 | <annevk> | in the rendering section |
| 21:58 | <annevk> | presumably overridden when seamless is specified and the URL is same-origin |
| 21:59 | <AryehGregor> | Wouldn't that allow authors to override it with iframe { height: auto; width: auto }? |
| 22:01 | <annevk> | zcorpan_, hmm, actually, the problem seems more that iframe creates a "viewport" of its own and that viewport has no intrinsic height/width and therefore the CSS rules apply |
| 22:02 | <annevk> | zcorpan_, so the embedded content is not SVG, it's a viewport with SVG on it (something in that direction) |
| 22:02 | <llrcombs> | so seamless would do the same thing as iFrames do on iPhone (size themselves to fit their content)? |
| 22:02 | <AryehGregor> | Do iframes really do that on the iPhone? |
| 22:03 | <llrcombs> | yep |
| 22:03 | llrcombs | is annoyed at LT (local high school) |
| 22:03 | <llrcombs> | they have an HTML course |
| 22:03 | <llrcombs> | but they have a rule |
| 22:03 | <zcorpan_> | also cross-origin? |
| 22:03 | <llrcombs> | yes, iirc |
| 22:03 | <llrcombs> | go try it! |
| 22:03 | <zcorpan_> | i don't have an iphone |
| 22:04 | <llrcombs> | that rule is: all tags must be all-caps |
| 22:04 | <llrcombs> | ..... |
| 22:04 | llrcombs | pulls up the iSim |
| 22:04 | <llrcombs> | I'm pretty sure that's what MobileSafari DOES though |
| 22:05 | llrcombs | tests on his virtual iPhone 4 |
| 22:07 | <llrcombs> | yep |
| 22:08 | <llrcombs> | given style="width: 100; height: 100;", it resizes the width to the minimum height to display correctly |
| 22:08 | <llrcombs> | and the height to the height of the page |
| 22:08 | <llrcombs> | (correctly = without a scrollbar) |
| 22:09 | <AryehGregor> | Even cross-origin? |
| 22:09 | <AryehGregor> | That sounds like a security vulnerability. |
| 22:09 | <llrcombs> | ? |
| 22:09 | <llrcombs> | all it adjusts is the width+height |
| 22:09 | <llrcombs> | I was testing from a data: url, but I remember the same thing happening in W3Schools' TryIt editor |
| 22:10 | <AryehGregor> | Width+height leaks info. |
| 22:10 | <AryehGregor> | Whether you're logged into the site, for instance. |
| 22:10 | <llrcombs> | it's as though the "seamless" attribute is applied to every iframe |
| 22:10 | <llrcombs> | ahh, no, it's not actually specified |
| 22:10 | <AryehGregor> | And possibly lots of other fun stuff. |
| 22:10 | <llrcombs> | not in CSS |
| 22:10 | <llrcombs> | it's just as though you'd applied seamless |
| 22:10 | <llrcombs> | no vernurability beyond what would be provided by actually adding the seamless attribute |
| 22:12 | <AryehGregor> | seamless doesn't work cross-origin. |
| 22:12 | <AryehGregor> | For exactly this reason. |
| 22:12 | <AryehGregor> | Because it would be a security vulnerability if it did. :) |
| 22:12 | <llrcombs> | and... |
| 22:12 | <llrcombs> | Google put the sidebar back |
| 22:12 | <llrcombs> | just did it |
| 22:12 | <llrcombs> | I googled "iPhone iFrame" |
| 22:12 | <llrcombs> | then added "scroll" and voila, the sidebar's back |
| 22:13 | <llrcombs> | they always make their changes right when I'm searching stuff |
| 22:13 | <llrcombs> | except logos |
| 22:13 | <zcorpan_> | a<!--test-->b in VLC shows "a>b" |
| 22:14 | <zcorpan_> | a<01:00,000>b also shows "a>b" |
| 22:14 | <llrcombs> | #VLC |
| 22:15 | <llrcombs> | erm |
| 22:15 | <llrcombs> | nvm |
| 22:15 | <llrcombs> | ahh |
| 22:15 | <llrcombs> | must be one on another server |
| 22:15 | <llrcombs> | file a bug report @ their site |
| 22:15 | <zcorpan_> | the purpose of my testing is for websrt |
| 22:15 | <llrcombs> | ooh boy websrt |
| 22:16 | llrcombs | can't wait for WK to add support for that |
| 22:17 | <zcorpan_> | it seems to ignore an unclosed <i> altogether and drops the whole cue if i use <I> |
| 22:17 | <Slaanesh> | zcorpan_: VLC is legendary for failing to parse subtitles properly |
| 22:17 | <zcorpan_> | Slaanesh: you know any specific examples? |
| 22:22 | <erlehmann> | zcorpan_, i once had a subtitle file that was tuned to fail on bad VLC parsing |
| 22:23 | <zcorpan_> | erlehmann: you don't have it anymore or can find it again? |
| 22:23 | <erlehmann> | while other players coped well with it, VLC only had a continuous stream of YOUR MEDIA PLAYER SUCKS or something like that |
| 22:23 | <zcorpan_> | lol |
| 22:23 | <Slaanesh> | Yeah, a few groups would make subs like that |
| 22:23 | <erlehmann> | i can look for it, but i do not think i have it anymore. |
| 22:23 | <erlehmann> | wait. |
| 22:23 | <zcorpan_> | media player equivalent of browser sniffing |
| 22:24 | <erlehmann> | _██_ |
| 22:24 | <erlehmann> | (°ᴗƪ) |
| 22:24 | <erlehmann> | hilarious insight, chap |
| 22:25 | zcorpan_ | successfully used that smiley in srt in vlc |
| 22:25 | <Slaanesh> | zcorpan_: Not really, you can't sniff in subtitles |
| 22:26 | <Slaanesh> | More like media player equivalent of <blink> |
| 22:26 | <zcorpan_> | Slaanesh: you can expose bugs to block some media players |
| 22:27 | <Slaanesh> | Yeah, but that's just feature detection |