| 00:21 | <MikeSmith> | /set activity_hide_targets #webkit #chromium |
| 00:21 | <MikeSmith> | /set activity_hide_targets #webkit #chromium |
| 00:47 | <karlcow> | http://www.w3.org/mid/m24nk01371.fsf⊙eac |
| 00:47 | <karlcow> | "We support Microdata proceeding on the REC track—just to name one reasno, WebKit and Gecko both have implementations." |
| 00:48 | <karlcow> | http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/microdata-and-the-microdata-dom-api/ |
| 00:48 | <karlcow> | fwiw ;) |
| 00:49 | <karlcow> | Though I have been trying to use Microdata API and I found it confusing. I guess I didn't grasp yet how it should be working. |
| 00:51 | <hober> | OK, I really need to stop my brain for thinking of cards for Web Standards Cards For Humanity |
| 00:52 | <hober> | e.g. Given the black card "Life for American Indians was forever changed when the White Man introduced them to _____." Play the white card "the 5 February 2004 W3C Patent Policy." |
| 01:30 | <tantek> | karlcow - I like how everyone who writes a metadata article has to create a gratuitous reinvention of vCard / hCard etc. for their examples, thus immediately misleading authors into thinking they should all make up their own vocabularies. It's like XML hell all over again. |
| 01:31 | <tantek> | and I think the microdata API is only there in order to provide a spec-hook for the parsing algorithm, that is, some sort of developer accessible reason for existing. I don't know of anyone who actually makes any use of the microdata API in practice. |
| 01:31 | <karlcow> | tantek: not sure what it refers to. But I guess business card is a kind of "hello world" of metadata. |
| 01:31 | <tantek> | to me it (the *API* in particular) just as bad of a solution looking for a problem as many other kinds of things that get quickly derided. |
| 01:32 | <tantek> | a business card may be a kind of "hello world" of metadata, but then it should be used to promote vocabulary re-use first and foremost, not making up new vocabularies (and thus sending developers down an unproductive / non-interop path. |
| 01:33 | <tantek> | p.s. clever .ro spam comment at the end of that article |
| 01:34 | <karlcow> | tantek: aaaaaah you are talking about the article on dev.opera? |
| 01:34 | karlcow | was lost |
| 01:36 | <karlcow> | I was just mentioning to hober that microdata API was supported in Opera since Presto 2.9 http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/presto29/ |
| 01:37 | <karlcow> | ~2011 |
| 01:40 | <karlcow> | For the MicroData API, I haven't really understood yet how the API helps to walk the graph of metadata to extract values. |
| 01:42 | <karlcow> | I must be doing something wrong |
| 01:42 | <karlcow> | https://gist.github.com/4221190 |
| 03:51 | <Hixie> | man, i am absolutely amazed by the lack of professionalism being shown by people in public-webapps |
| 03:57 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: I know what you mean but I'm amazed that you're amazed |
| 03:57 | <MikeSmith> | if in fact you're sincere about being amazed |
| 03:58 | <MikeSmith> | people can lead themselves to absurd conclusions once they have decided to not fix the real problems |
| 03:58 | <Hixie> | i actually am amazed |
| 03:59 | <MikeSmith> | ignore the core problems, pretend they're not problems at all, then start rationalizing from there |
| 03:59 | <Hixie> | i have seen all kinds of weird stuff at the w3c, but lack of professionalism towards others to this level i haven't seen before |
| 03:59 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 03:59 | <MikeSmith> | it's dogmatic |
| 03:59 | <Hixie> | i mean, at first i kinda assumed people just didn't realise copying people was off |
| 03:59 | <MikeSmith> | of course they realize it's wrong |
| 03:59 | <Hixie> | but after that's been mentioned and pointed out, trying to justify it is crazy |
| 04:00 | <Hixie> | and the latest thing in www-archive saying that really the problem is just that ms2ger is pseudonymous is utter bs |
| 04:00 | <MikeSmith> | it's like any other kind of blind devotion to an instiution |
| 04:00 | <Hixie> | i mean, that brings it to a new level |
| 04:01 | <MikeSmith> | well that's not "people" |
| 04:01 | <MikeSmith> | that's one person |
| 04:01 | <MikeSmith> | who's at the most extreme end |
| 04:01 | <Hixie> | that specific issue, yes |
| 04:01 | <Hixie> | but the broader one isn't |
| 04:01 | <Hixie> | i mean, each of these specs has multiple "editors" listed |
| 04:06 | <zewt> | Hixie: i can honestly say that charles trying to censor ms2 is one of the most offensive things i've ever seen on a "professional" mailing list |
| 04:06 | <Hixie> | yeah that's a great example of what i mean |
| 04:07 | <zewt> | wonder if gmail lets me plonk people because i really don't want to read anything he has to say |
| 05:00 | <Hixie> | is this specced anywhere? http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=3766 |
| 05:03 | <Hixie> | anyone know anything about DOMFrameContentLoaded? |
| 05:03 | <MikeSmith> | Hixie: dunno but it looks like FF and Chrome both pass it now, right? |
| 05:04 | <Hixie> | yeah it's more the <font> behaviour i'm worried about |
| 05:04 | <MikeSmith> | oh |
| 05:04 | <Hixie> | the test, that is, the CSS stuff, is specced in the CSS and Unicode specs, i think |
| 05:04 | <MikeSmith> | ok |
| 05:49 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: has there been any decision yet about dropping the ime-mode property from CSS UI? |
| 05:50 | <MikeSmith> | I see it's still marked "at risk" in the latest ED |
| 05:50 | <MikeSmith> | http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-ui/ |
| 05:51 | <tantek> | MikeSmith - do you have a preference? |
| 05:52 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: not really. I can ask the devs working on the IME API if they do |
| 05:53 | <MikeSmith> | I guess if we go forward with the IME API maybe we don't need the ime-mode property |
| 05:53 | <tantek> | basically, ime-mode is in IE5+ and FF3+ |
| 05:53 | <tantek> | it is at risk because we don't know how interop those are |
| 05:53 | <tantek> | if they're interop, then it stays, if not, then it gets dropped during CR |
| 05:54 | <tantek> | make sense? |
| 05:55 | <MikeSmith> | tantek: makes sense |
| 05:55 | <MikeSmith> | thanks |
| 05:56 | <tantek> | np |
| 06:49 | <MikeSmith> | https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/5593cd83590e is nice |
| 06:49 | <MikeSmith> | 2.1 --- a/js/src/jsarray.cpp |
| 06:49 | <MikeSmith> | 1.2 +++ b/js/src/builtin/array.js |
| 06:50 | <MikeSmith> | by way of David Bruant on twitter https://twitter.com/DavidBruant/status/276349760317829120 |
| 06:52 | <MikeSmith> | and "Indeed, we took the basic concepts from V8." |
| 06:52 | <MikeSmith> | flashback to the summer of 2008 |
| 06:58 | <MikeSmith> | http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~dufour/pubs/dls2011.pdf |
| 07:01 | <MikeSmith> | https://github.com/Tachyon-Team/Tachyon/tree/master/source |
| 08:37 | <Smylers> | The sample rendering images in ‘HTML for Developers’ are wrong in a mildly amusing way: http://developers.whatwg.org/states-of-the-type-attribute.html#range-state-%28type=range%29 |
| 08:37 | <Smylers> | (Also reported properly as an issue on GitHub.) |
| 08:39 | <Ms2ger> | Smylers, these come straight from the spec, no? |
| 08:39 | <Smylers> | They're displayed fine in the full spec. |
| 08:39 | <Smylers> | I'm presuming they're being distorted by CSS specific to the developers remix. |
| 08:41 | <Ms2ger> | Oh, hmm |
| 08:41 | <Ms2ger> | I don't see that |
| 09:56 | <zcorpan> | Smylers1: problem being that the images don't load? maybe they're not listed in the manifest? |
| 09:59 | <Smylers1> | Ms2ger: Hmmm, seems to be Firefox-specific. |
| 09:59 | <Ms2ger> | I use Firefox ;) |
| 09:59 | <Smylers1> | I just checked in Chromium and IE, and it's fine in those. |
| 10:00 | <Smylers1> | Ms2ger: Odd. |
| 10:01 | <Smylers1> | Ms2ger: I'm seeing the problem on both Firefox 17.0.1 on Linux and 16.0.2 on Windows. |
| 10:01 | <Ms2ger> | I'm on 20-something/Linux |
| 10:02 | <Smylers1> | zcorpan: The problem (which now seems only to affect me, albeit on two different computers with no shared accounts) is that the images are stretched to being the full width of the paragraph, but keep their intrinsic height. For tall thin images it's very distorting. |
| 10:02 | <zcorpan> | oh |
| 10:03 | <Smylers1> | Ah, using the Ctrl+Shift+I thingy and clicking on a stretched image I see |
| 10:03 | <zcorpan> | maybe the width is used from laying out the alt text? |
| 10:04 | <Smylers1> | section[role="main"] img { width: 100%; } |
| 10:04 | <Smylers1> | That's in the file handheld.css. |
| 10:04 | <darobin> | section[role="main"]? shouldn't you be using <main> instead? |
| 10:04 | darobin | crawls back under his bridge |
| 10:04 | <Smylers1> | Presumably handheld.css isn't supposed to be active in a desktop browser. |
| 10:04 | <Smylers1> | darobin: Tee-hee. |
| 10:05 | <zcorpan> | that style rule also seems a bit bogus |
| 10:05 | <zcorpan> | possibly max-width:100%; height:auto; makes sense |
| 10:05 | <darobin> | indeed |
| 10:05 | <Smylers1> | zcorpan: Indeed. That sounds better. |
| 10:05 | <Smylers1> | Has anybody got an actual handheld device to check it on? |
| 10:06 | <zcorpan> | what's your window width? |
| 10:07 | <zcorpan> | <link href="/css/handheld.css" rel="stylesheet" media="screen and (max-width: 959px)"> |
| 10:07 | <Smylers1> | 873px, it turns out |
| 10:07 | <Smylers1> | Ah. |
| 10:08 | <Smylers1> | 873px doesn't seem small to me. It lets me fit an 80-character terminal window next to it on this widescreen laptop. |
| 10:08 | <zcorpan> | if you have a monitor, try holding it in your hand and see if the image appears more comfortable. |
| 10:09 | <Smylers1> | As expected, going full-screen fixes things. |
| 10:09 | <darobin> | Smylers1: the break point at which to switch to handheld is debatable, but the CSS for images is wrong anyway so fixing that would be the best bet IMHO |
| 10:10 | <Smylers1> | darobin: Yup. |
| 10:10 | <darobin> | also, if you're debugging you're probably much, much better off removing the manifest |
| 10:11 | <Smylers1> | I've just tried zcorpan's suggestion in the Ctrl+Shift+I thingy, and it seems to work. |
| 10:11 | <Smylers1> | darobin: manifest? |
| 10:11 | <darobin> | Smylers1: appcache manifest, on the root html |
| 10:12 | <darobin> | besides, it's a weird use of appcache given that the images are in a NETWORK block |
| 10:12 | <Smylers1> | darobin: What's that do? |
| 10:12 | <darobin> | it causes it to be cached for offline use |
| 10:12 | <darobin> | during development, it's a world of pain |
| 10:13 | <Smylers1> | darobin: When I first viewed the page Firefox asked me if I wanted to install the site for offline use. (I said ‘no’.) Is that what does it? |
| 10:13 | <darobin> | yup |
| 10:14 | <Smylers1> | darobin: Ta. |
| 10:14 | <darobin> | Smylers1: you want to read this before touching any content that relies on appcache: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/application-cache-is-a-douchebag/ |
| 10:14 | <hsivonen> | Hixie: the spec for DOMFrameContentLoaded is http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/base/src/nsDocument.cpp#4128 |
| 10:14 | <darobin> | none of what's in that article is an exaggeration, in fact he's rather mellow considering |
| 10:37 | <Smylers1> | Pull request sent: https://github.com/benschwarz/developers.whatwg.org/pull/73 |
| 10:37 | <Smylers1> | Thank you everybody for the help. |
| 10:56 | <zcorpan> | SimonSapin: thanks (re www-style) |
| 10:58 | <SimonSapin> | zcorpan: sure |
| 10:58 | <SimonSapin> | so you’d favor making the whitespace really optional? |
| 10:59 | <SimonSapin> | the thing is, it’s a pain to express in the grammar: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-conditional/#at-supports |
| 10:59 | <zcorpan> | yeah, that seems like it would result in fewer WTWTFs from authors |
| 11:00 | <zcorpan> | i understand that it's a pain for the spec |
| 11:00 | <zcorpan> | priorities... |
| 11:02 | <darobin> | SimonSapin: are there any plans to make at-rules acceptable in a @supports condition? |
| 11:02 | <darobin> | e.g. @support (@font-face) ... |
| 11:02 | <SimonSapin> | darobin: isn’t that the case already? |
| 11:02 | <darobin> | I thought it wasn't, maybe I'm wrong |
| 11:02 | <SimonSapin> | http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-conditional/#contents-of |
| 11:04 | <darobin> | SimonSapin: unless I'm reading the grammar wrong that's for the content of the @support's body |
| 11:05 | <darobin> | so @supports (foo: bar) { @allowed-here... } |
| 11:05 | <SimonSapin> | darobin: sorry I misread your question |
| 11:05 | <darobin> | I was thinking about @supports not (@page) { approximate page stuff somehow } |
| 11:05 | <SimonSapin> | In @support (…) the … must be a declaration |
| 11:06 | <darobin> | right |
| 11:06 | <SimonSapin> | but we changed the syntax to allow @support some_functional_notation(…) |
| 11:06 | <SimonSapin> | unknown functions are always false, but future levels can add functions |
| 11:06 | <darobin> | heh, if your initial reply had been correct then the grammar would accept @supports not (@supports) {…} :) |
| 11:07 | <darobin> | that makes sense |
| 11:07 | <SimonSapin> | so maybe @supports at-rule(@page) or something |
| 11:08 | <SimonSapin> | it’s not in level 1 because we’re not sure of the syntax, but didn’t want to block the rest of the functionality |
| 11:11 | <darobin> | sure, that's sensible |
| 14:00 | <Smylers1> | “The quality of a spec has little to do with its implementation or implementability. This is a process and IPR concern unrelated to quality.” — Interesting TAG manifesto line from Glenn Adams. |
| 14:01 | <Smylers1> | His nominator seems to've forgotten to mention it in his statement, but Glenn helpfully puts it on the public record here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Dec/0027.html |
| 14:57 | <zewt> | Smylers1: wow--that's pretty unusual subject matter for The Onion |
| 15:07 | <zewt> | Hixie: bleh, I should take that complex captioning example, track down a raw and transcribe the same scene with roll-ups |
| 15:07 | <zewt> | it'll be completely illegible and i don't think anyone comparing those two could make an honest argument for roll-up captions |
| 15:55 | <marcosc> | zewt: Eveyone knows Ms2ger` is a patent troll |
| 15:55 | <Ms2ger`> | And I tried so hard to hide it by not telling Glenn who I am |
| 15:56 | <marcosc> | Ms2ger`, oh! Glenn will find out when you drag his sorry ass into court for countless patent infringements |
| 15:57 | <Ms2ger`> | marcosc, that will be hard, he doesn't implement anything AFAIK |
| 15:59 | <marcosc> | heh, the irony :) |
| 16:31 | <foobler> | What's the best manner to use @async and @defer for a dynamically injected script that I want to be downloaded as soon as possible, but then executed on domready so as to not get in the way of the rest of the page? |
| 16:44 | <Ms2ger`> | defer |
| 17:15 | <GPHemsley> | Sometimes I wonder whether our embedded lists should use different numbering for different levels... |
| 17:16 | <GPHemsley> | It's all Pythony in here, relying only on indentation to determine which level we're at. |
| 17:19 | <annevk> | odinho: happy b-day! |
| 17:48 | <GPHemsley> | "Well, you see, in step 14.15.2.2, you..." |
| 17:48 | <GPHemsley> | -_- |
| 17:49 | <Ms2ger`> | In step 14.XV.b.ii? |
| 17:51 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 17:55 | <GPHemsley> | Ms2ger`: No, silly. Step 14(o)(ii)(β). Duh. |
| 18:11 | <GPHemsley> | SimonSapin: This is what I have so far. Thoughts? http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1979746 |
| 18:13 | <GPHemsley> | (it's not done) |
| 18:13 | <GPHemsley> | annevk: Feel free to chime in, too. ^^ |
| 18:16 | <SimonSapin> | GPHemsley: first impression without reading: if it’s that much code-like, how about using an actual programming language? |
| 18:16 | <SimonSapin> | at university I used to write python and tell people it’s pseudo-code |
| 18:16 | Ms2ger` | did that |
| 18:17 | <Ms2ger`> | With a professor who wrote horrible formatted C as pseudo-code instead |
| 18:18 | <SimonSapin> | I don’t remember a spec using executable code as the normative description of an algorithm, but I don’t know why it would bad |
| 18:19 | <SimonSapin> | favoritism form one programming language aside |
| 18:19 | <Ms2ger`> | Depending on the definition of the programming language and all its bugs |
| 18:19 | <SimonSapin> | might still be better than an undefined pseudo-language |
| 18:20 | <SimonSapin> | Are "Enter loop L" and "Begin loop M" the same as "while True"? |
| 18:21 | <SimonSapin> | (sorry for going meta when I suspect you want feedback on the actual algorithm…) |
| 18:44 | <GPHemsley> | SimonSapin: All algorithms are code-like ;) |
| 18:49 | <GPHemsley> | SimonSapin: Any spec that uses pseudo-code instead of prose runs the risk of being unintelligible or misunderstood. With prose (at least, if done correctly), you can be clear about what you need to be done without necessarily forcing any particular way of doing it. |
| 18:50 | <GPHemsley> | So yes, you can translate "enter loop" as "while true", but really that's just an artifact of the programming language. |
| 18:51 | <GPHemsley> | It's a hack, really, if you think about it. |
| 18:51 | <GPHemsley> | You're taking advantage of a tautology to force the loop to run continuously, but there's no reason why a programming language couldn't implement that behavior natively. |
| 18:52 | <GPHemsley> | (As in, the prose is a sort of pseudo-code already.) |
| 18:55 | <SimonSapin> | yeah I was not suggesting you change it, just confirming I understood correctly |
| 18:56 | <GPHemsley> | k |
| 18:57 | <GPHemsley> | SimonSapin: I just wanted to make sure I sufficiently argued against using pseudo-code as a spec. :) |
| 18:57 | <SimonSapin> | so you plan to make prose out of http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1979746 ? |
| 18:59 | <GPHemsley> | SimonSapin: Oh, no, that's what I consider prose in this context. :) |
| 19:01 | <GPHemsley> | BTW, those are all supposed to be numbered. For some reason, the numbering didn't copy from the browser. |
| 19:03 | <SimonSapin> | GPHemsley: are you writing this in HTML? Could you paste the source? (Might be easier to read.) |
| 19:06 | <GPHemsley> | Doubt it, but OK. |
| 19:07 | <SimonSapin> | GPHemsley: define whitespace, preferably by a list of code points |
| 19:07 | <SimonSapin> | (easier to read once rendered by a browser!) |
| 19:08 | <SimonSapin> | GPHemsley: … or link to http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/#ascii-whitespace , if that’s the definition you want |
| 19:08 | <GPHemsley> | Yes, yes. Assume all terms are define satisfactorily. (I think annevk defines whitespace characters in encoding or something.) |
| 19:08 | <GPHemsley> | SimonSapin: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1979885 |
| 19:09 | <GPHemsley> | Once I actually have an algorithm that completes, I'll commit it and put in online like normal. Then you can read it comfortably. |
| 19:09 | <GPHemsley> | I'm just looking for overview feedback right now. |
| 19:09 | <SimonSapin> | commit with mime(sniff)? |
| 19:10 | <GPHemsley> | Yeah |
| 19:10 | <GPHemsley> | Unless/until we find someplace else to live. |
| 19:10 | <GPHemsley> | +for it |
| 19:11 | <GPHemsley> | I define "whitespace byte", but I haven't decided whether I'm parsing this as bytes or characters. |
| 19:11 | <SimonSapin> | sequence[s] is undefined … when s >= length? |
| 19:12 | <GPHemsley> | those are functionally equivalent, are they not? |
| 19:12 | <SimonSapin> | yeah of course |
| 19:12 | <GPHemsley> | (but this is still too low level of feedback :P) |
| 19:13 | <SimonSapin> | again, making sure I understand |
| 19:13 | <GPHemsley> | ah, ok |
| 19:13 | GPHemsley | notes that pastebin HTML syntax highlighting is rather terrible. |
| 19:13 | <SimonSapin> | I’m used to python were out of bounds indexing raises an error instead of returning undefined/None |
| 19:14 | <GPHemsley> | ah, well, I could change it |
| 19:14 | <GPHemsley> | but it's used elsewhere in mimesniff, too |
| 19:14 | <SimonSapin> | I’m reading here http://dabblet.com/gist/4227355 |
| 19:14 | <GPHemsley> | ah, that's one way to do it |
| 19:18 | <SimonSapin> | re seq[i] is undefined: if that behavior is defined or mentioned somewhere, it’s fine |
| 19:19 | <benbro> | how can I track the progress of the PointerEvents draft? |
| 19:19 | <benbro> | is there a way to estimate when it will be stable and when will browsers start to implement it? |
| 19:19 | <Ms2ger`> | Look at xhr.spec.whatwg.org |
| 19:19 | <SimonSapin> | Encoding uses a theoretical "EOF code point" or "EOF byte" |
| 19:19 | <Ms2ger`> | Browsers have implemented it for years |
| 19:19 | <hober> | benbro: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/ |
| 19:19 | <Ms2ger`> | Oh |
| 19:19 | <Ms2ger`> | I can't read |
| 19:20 | <Ms2ger`> | Nothing to see here, move along |
| 19:20 | <benbro> | hober: thanks. seems very active |
| 19:20 | <GPHemsley> | SimonSapin: Yeah, I saw that, but I didn't look deep enough into it to understand its function. Is that what it does? Avoid this undefined issue? |
| 19:20 | <SimonSapin> | it just means you reached the end of a sequence |
| 19:20 | <jsbell> | yes (re: EOF byte) |
| 19:21 | <benbro> | hober: does implementation depends only on browser vendors or on devices too? |
| 19:21 | <benbro> | hober: for example FF only or android/galaxy note. who should change stuff to support it? |
| 19:21 | <hober> | benbro: i don't think i understand the question, and i'm not in the wg |
| 19:22 | <benbro> | hober: ok. I mean who need to implement the spec |
| 19:23 | <benbro> | if it's just FireFox the browser or also samsung who creates the galaxy note with the s-pen or maybe google which creates the android |
| 19:23 | <GPHemsley> | SimonSapin: Oh, I forgot, it's because the algorithm processes a byte sequence as an array, of sorts. So seq[i] is undefined when it goes out of bounds. But >= length would work, too. Not sure about EOF, though. |
| 19:24 | <GPHemsley> | (it doesn't use pointers or whatever) |
| 19:25 | <SimonSapin> | GPHemsley: I wonder if a grammar would be more suited in this particular case. One without implicit whitespace or implicit anything. Error handling is simple: doesn’t match the grammar ⇒ return undefined |
| 19:26 | <GPHemsley> | Yeah, I was kinda thinking that myself. |
| 19:26 | <GPHemsley> | I just wish I'd thought harder about before I did all this work. >_> |
| 19:26 | <SimonSapin> | It’s quite verbose just to say: ws* token ws* "/" ws* token ws* |
| 19:27 | <GPHemsley> | indeed |
| 19:27 | <GPHemsley> | though I think there are severability points beyond just not matching = undefined |
| 19:28 | <jsbell> | Although I'm not really paying attention, have no useful input, and I have no reason to care and should be worrying about other things, the comment "I haven't decided whether I'm parsing this as bytes or characters" is causing encoding-paranoia angst. Pls decide soon kthxbai :) |
| 19:28 | <SimonSapin> | but what exactly is a token? In your algo anything but whitespace or / for type and subtype, anything but whitespace or = for name, … |
| 19:29 | <GPHemsley> | SimonSapin: Yeah, see, it's more complicated than it looks. (And that's even after simplifying what the RFCs say.) And don't forget the whole parameter issue with null vs. "" vs. actual content. |
| 19:29 | <SimonSapin> | the MIME rfcs probably have definition but I’m sure what it is |
| 19:29 | <GPHemsley> | jsbell: That's why I'm leaning towards characters in this case. |
| 19:30 | <SimonSapin> | yeah, I don’t think parameters without values (value is null) are actually a thing |
| 19:30 | <GPHemsley> | SimonSapin: Oh, they do. There are plenty of different RFCs with different definitions. That's why I've oversimplified at first pass. |
| 19:30 | <SimonSapin> | I think the only thing looking like this is base64 in data, but that can be special-cased |
| 19:31 | <GPHemsley> | I'd rather there weren't any special cases. Wouldn't it be nice to allow such extensibility? |
| 19:31 | <SimonSapin> | I don’t know |
| 19:32 | <SimonSapin> | I’d rather not base new stuff on MIME, this is only for defining existing protocols |
| 19:32 | <GPHemsley> | Especially if this evolves into some sort of API or something. |
| 19:40 | <SimonSapin> | GPHemsley: in data: you can omit type/subtype (defaults to text/plain) and only specify parameters like charset. It could either be a flag passed to your algorithm |
| 19:40 | <SimonSapin> | or data could have something like "if header starts with optional whitespace followed by ; then prepend text/plain" beforehand |
| 19:46 | <SimonSapin> | bbl |
| 22:13 | <jsbell> | In DOM3 the IDL for DOMException and DOMError define a |message| readonly DOMString attribute. In DOM4 the guts of DOMException logic are shuffled off to WebIDL which handwaves about "Exceptions have an associated message, a DOMString, which is exposed on an exception object in a language binding-specific manner." |
| 22:16 | <jsbell> | I'm assuming this means I can stuff a message on DOMError and everyone will be happy. |
| 22:24 | <jsbell> | annevk: ping? |
| 22:34 | <heycam> | jsbell, there is wording down later in the spec about what it means in terms of a message property on exceptions in JS |
| 22:35 | <heycam> | jsbell, see the second list of steps in http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#es-throwing-exceptions |
| 22:35 | <heycam> | jsbell, (it passes the message to the constructor for the error) |
| 22:35 | <jsbell> | heycam: yeah - in this case I'm actually worrying about DOMError which as far as I can tell WebIDL doesn't touch at all |
| 22:36 | <heycam> | jsbell, ah ok, right. I am not really sure where DOMError is used currently, so no opinion on that. :) |
| 22:36 | <jsbell> | Sorry to cast aspersions on WebIDL. :) |
| 22:37 | <heycam> | heh np |
| 22:42 | <jsbell> | heycam: while I've got you though... did anything ever come of the "treat undefined parameters as missing like ES6" discussions http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-script-coord/2012OctDec/0026.html ? |
| 22:43 | <jsbell> | I'm guessing that's on a TODO list somewhere. |
| 22:44 | <heycam> | jsbell, yeah, I need to make that change if ES6 has indeed changed its treatment of undefined passed to functions |
| 22:44 | <heycam> | but not done yet, you are right |
| 22:44 | <jsbell> | Cool, just making sure it hadn't been revisited and rejected. |
| 22:45 | <heycam> | it is in my folder of public-script-coord mail with ~400 unread emails ;) |
| 23:42 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: should decode() throw when given an invalid label but the string has a BOM? The label would be ignored anyway |
| 23:46 | <SimonSapin> | annevk: x-user-defined could also be implemented with an index, right? |
| 23:50 | <freedrull> | what can websockets do that you couldn't do with server sent events and a http connection with keep-alive? |
| 23:50 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: x-user-defined, can, yes |
| 23:50 | <annevk> | SimonSapin: yes, decode() should throw |
| 23:51 | <annevk> | nn |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | freedrull: nothing |
| 23:51 | <freedrull> | :\ |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | then again, server sent events and a http connection with keep-alive can't do anything a carrier pigeon couldn't do :-) |
| 23:51 | <freedrull> | haha |
| 23:51 | <Hixie> | it's just way simpler with websockets |
| 23:52 | <freedrull> | i see |