| 00:50 | <jamesr__> | what happens when you assign 1.9 to an IDL attribute of type 'unsigned long' ? |
| 00:51 | <jamesr__> | ah it floors |
| 01:33 | <sangwhan__> | Any good ideas for the TTWF submissions that don't get follow up work for the review comments? Give it a deadline and drop review? |
| 01:40 | <jgraham> | sangwhan__: Depends how useful the test is. If it's basically not that useful just drop it after a while. If it is useful then grab the code and fix it up yourself |
| 01:45 | <sangwhan__> | sangwhan__: Some of them do fill in blanks in coverage, while not being awfully great so someone needs to sit down and fix it up |
| 01:45 | <sangwhan__> | jgraham: ^ |
| 01:45 | sangwhan__ | needs coffee, brain not working |
| 01:46 | <jgraham> | heh |
| 01:46 | <jgraham> | Yeah. In that case "fork" the contribution and fix it up |
| 01:46 | <jgraham> | It is a weakness of gh that you can't do that directly |
| 01:48 | <sangwhan__> | Yes, that aspect of GH seems a bit odd. Would have loved to have r/branchname that I could just pull and continue the work (won't say where I saw this) |
| 01:53 | <jgraham> | :-o |
| 01:54 | <jgraham> | sangwhan__: Yeah :) You *can* get the code with gh, but not push back |
| 02:00 | <sangwhan__> | Since we use GH's pull mechanism that's a primitive merge i assume we don't/can't use FnT? |
| 02:01 | <sangwhan__> | s/'s/s/ |
| 02:01 | sangwhan__ | *really* needs coffee |
| 02:46 | <jgraham> | sangwhan__: What's FnT? |
| 02:47 | <sangwhan__> | jgraham: fiddle and tweak |
| 02:53 | <sangwhan__> | jgraham: https://github.com/jensl/FiddleAndTweak |
| 02:56 | <jgraham> | ah |
| 02:57 | <jgraham> | Can't use that because a) we can't use extensions and b) the critic repo isn't the repo of record |
| 02:57 | <jgraham> | (it won't interact well with the branch tracking) |
| 03:19 | <sangwhan__> | Don't think there is a nice way to make that work with GH, yes |
| 03:20 | <zcorpan_> | TabAtkins: IE5-era browsers supported <style>. you need to go back further |
| 03:35 | <TabAtkins> | zcorpan: Oh jeez. |
| 03:35 | <TabAtkins> | I remember cargo-culting that shit when I started, during IE6. |
| 03:47 | <Hixie_> | thank you to all the w3cmemes posters for making me more sure than ever that not going to tpac was the right move |
| 03:54 | <annevk-cloud> | "'I think we can all agree' is the new 'fuck off'" <3 |
| 03:55 | <a-ja> | recall a fairly recent change to svg fonts that'd affect acid3? |
| 04:07 | <a-ja> | N/M....just my bad memory |
| 04:29 | <cwilso> | zcorpan: IE_3_ supported <style>. |
| 04:48 | <masatakayakura> | annevk-cloud: Natasha is looking for you to ask whether your Fetch session and her offline web ones can merge |
| 06:30 | <zcorpan> | cwilso: yeah |
| 10:15 | <hober> | surely the folks slaving away in shenzhen's meme factory are unsung heroes jeff should be thanking |
| 10:16 | <darobin> | hober: that was a comment for #tpac-chat :) |
| 10:16 | <hober> | no it wasn't |
| 10:16 | <darobin> | yes it was :) |
| 10:18 | <Ms2ger> | TabAtkins, is there a CSS2.1 draft with errata somewhere public? |
| 10:22 | Ms2ger | wonders what MikeSmith is testing on his th.js PR |
| 10:23 | <MikeSmith> | did I make a th.js PR? |
| 10:24 | <MikeSmith> | I think the Chinese army hackers have comprised my machine |
| 10:24 | <MikeSmith> | so maybe now they're starting to send PRs from my github account |
| 11:26 | <Ms2ger> | Oh, here I thought I'd actually stumbled on a site that used xhtml |
| 11:27 | <Ms2ger> | Turns out that the extension was .xhtml, but HTTP said text/html; charset=UTF-8 |
| 11:53 | <hsivonen> | It's ridiculous how hard it is to plug the replacement encoding into an existing browser in a secure way without regressing stuff |
| 11:54 | <hsivonen> | leaving old security problems remain would be so much easier than fixing them |
| 12:01 | <hsivonen> | part of my problem is that I foresee too many bugs and try to fix them right away |
| 12:08 | <hsivonen> | annevk-cloud: do we want the replacement encoding to inherit into iframes that are inserted using DOM APIs and show same-origin content? |
| 12:08 | <hsivonen> | annevk-cloud: if yes, why? if no, why? |
| 12:09 | <hsivonen> | (currently, "no" comes naturally) |
| 12:09 | <hsivonen> | (because the test for "doesn't participate in inheritance" and the test for "can't be overridden from menu" are the same) |
| 12:10 | <hsivonen> | though in principle, "yes" might be more secure |
| 12:28 | <annevk-cloud> | Dunno :/ |
| 12:29 | <hsivonen> | currently, it looks like this is the last thing I need to deal with before this replacement thing is ready for review |
| 12:29 | <hsivonen> | this took a lot more work than I expected |
| 12:33 | <hsivonen> | annevk-cloud: the encoding menu is IE11 is interesting |
| 12:33 | <hsivonen> | 1) It has some DOS encodings that we removed |
| 12:33 | <hsivonen> | 2) It doesn't have ISO-2022-JP |
| 12:33 | <hsivonen> | 3) It doesn't have gbk (GB18030 only) |
| 12:33 | <hsivonen> | 4) It has HZ |
| 12:34 | <hsivonen> | oops sorry. it does have gbk under the other name |
| 12:34 | <hsivonen> | the items move when used! |
| 12:35 | <hsivonen> | 5) It doesn't have some ISO encodings that we retained |
| 12:37 | <gsnedders> | For 5) does it have equiv. Windows codespace encodings? |
| 12:38 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: they don't map 1-to-1 |
| 12:38 | <hsivonen> | gsnedders: there are no Windows code page specific to Celtic, Nordic or Romanian |
| 12:38 | <hsivonen> | Windows Central European covers also Romanian |
| 12:39 | <hsivonen> | kudos to MS for burying the ISO-8859-* encodings that were introduced after UTF-8 |
| 12:45 | <hsivonen> | the ISO > 11 situation is totally 927 :-( |
| 12:58 | <hsivonen> | context for http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/post/66860522018/jeff-jaffe-tells-robin-berjon-how-it-is ? |
| 12:59 | <hsivonen> | no new w3tmemes during TPAC :-/ |
| 13:45 | <hsivonen> | hmm. Chromium doesn't have Mac & DOS Cyrillic encodings in the menu |
| 13:45 | <hsivonen> | I wonder if they are still supported |
| 14:05 | <Jasper> | Does anything support https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ime-api/raw-file/default/Overview.html yet? I'm not sure of the status of it. |
| 14:28 | <beverloo> | annevk-cloud, ping |
| 14:28 | <beverloo> | annevk-cloud, where do I post comments about the notification api? whatwg or w3c list? |
| 14:44 | <annevk-cloud> | beverloo: whatwg is fine |
| 14:44 | <beverloo> | ok, ty |
| 14:59 | <MikeSmith> | Jasper: the IME API is not implemented yet |
| 15:04 | <SteveF> | hey mikey saw you got my billet doux |
| 15:05 | <MikeSmith> | heh |
| 15:05 | <MikeSmith> | yeah |
| 15:10 | <GPHemsley> | hmm... apparently Gmail doesn't care that I start my e-mail address name with a quotation mark, it splits at the comma anyway |
| 15:34 | <gsnedders> | GPHemsley: Comply with the spec? What does this mean? |
| 15:34 | <GPHemsley> | hmm? |
| 15:34 | <gsnedders> | GPHemsley: wrt Gmail and quotation marks |
| 15:34 | <GPHemsley> | oh |
| 15:35 | <GPHemsley> | If I type `"John Doe,`, Gmail thinks I'm moving on to the next e-mail address |
| 15:35 | <GPHemsley> | when in reality I was going to type `"John Doe, M.D." <jdoe⊙ec>` |
| 16:54 | <dglazkov> | good morning, Whatwg! |
| 17:35 | <Hixie_> | so... |
| 17:36 | <Hixie_> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22628 |
| 17:37 | <Hixie_> | if you have multiple BroadcastChannel objects in your Document |
| 17:37 | <Hixie_> | should they all get messages in one task, or separate tasks? |
| 18:09 | <matjas> | annevk-cloud: some background regarding that tweet: https://github.com/jwerle/url.h/issues/2#issuecomment-28224435 |
| 18:10 | <matjas> | annevk-cloud: is there a wiki/list of URL-spec-compliant implementations? if not, there should be |
| 18:11 | <matjas> | you could enable GH’s Wiki feature on https://github.com/whatwg/url/settings |
| 19:04 | <Hixie_> | man, you omit one "=" sign between an attribute name and an attribute value, and validator.nu gives you 6 error messages |
| 19:04 | Hixie_ | adds the "=" sign, feeling suitably chastised |
| 19:04 | <GPHemsley> | ^_^ |
| 19:09 | <matjas> | dglazkov: you’re getting better at this. that single capital ‘W’ really hurt |
| 19:09 | <Ms2ger> | Hixie_, I suspect that's your fault ;) |
| 19:09 | <Hixie_> | spec only says you have to give one error message :-) |
| 19:34 | <Hixie_> | i'm amused as to how similar the spec path is to mozilla's patch for https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23040 (i looked at the patch after writing mine) |
| 19:35 | <marcosc> | So, I can't find anyone by Microsoft supporting meta "application-name" |
| 19:35 | <marcosc> | s/by/but |
| 19:36 | <marcosc> | but it has quite a bit of usage thanks to Microsoft |
| 19:36 | <marcosc> | it always appears above "msapplication-tooltip" and "msapplication-starturl" |
| 20:00 | <marcosc> | hmm... is there no <link rel=first>? |
| 20:08 | <Hixie_> | marcosc: what would it do? |
| 20:09 | <marcosc> | Hixie_: I'm looking for an equivalent to Microsoft's "msapplication-starturl"... which points to the place where the author wants the end-user to end up when a page is bookmarked |
| 20:09 | <marcosc> | well, not quite bookmarked... they use some other terminology... pinned or something |
| 20:10 | <marcosc> | so, when you pin a site, you then click on it, and it takes you to some path... that's what I've gathered so far |
| 20:10 | <marcosc> | (don't actually have a windows box to test on) |
| 20:11 | <marcosc> | Hixie_: I'm trying to build up a coherent story for how "add to homescreen" could work with bits of HTML5 |
| 20:11 | <marcosc> | argh.. HTML, I mean |
| 20:11 | <Hixie_> | ah |
| 20:11 | <Hixie_> | rel=canonical? |
| 20:11 | <marcosc> | ugly, but could work :) |
| 20:12 | <Hixie_> | why ugly? |
| 20:12 | <marcosc> | canonical hard to spell |
| 20:12 | <marcosc> | strange word |
| 20:12 | <Hixie_> | oh well i didn't invent it |
| 20:12 | <Hixie_> | i mean the actual rel=canonical that exists |
| 20:12 | <marcosc> | yeah, wasn't blaming anyone |
| 20:12 | <marcosc> | let me see how often it comes up |
| 20:12 | <Hixie_> | not really clear to me why you'd want to pin something other than what the user said to pin, though |
| 20:14 | <Domenic_> | Hixie_: if I am at http://warmupreps.com/#starting-strength-squats and click "pin to home" I actually want to pin http://warmupreps.com/ or maybe http://warmupreps.com/#starting-strength |
| 20:14 | <marcosc> | Hixie_: no idea either |
| 20:14 | <Domenic_> | (this is actually a real life thing that happened to me.) |
| 20:15 | <Hixie_> | Domenic_: what if you want http://warmupreps.com/#starting-strength-squats ? |
| 20:15 | <Hixie_> | i mean, it seems reasonable to tell the user to pin what they want to pin... |
| 20:15 | <Domenic_> | Hixie_: I never want that. I want a complete workout, not a single page. |
| 20:16 | <Domenic_> | I guess part of the issue is that phone apps usually have very little on a single screen |
| 20:16 | <Domenic_> | E.g. even though the conceptual unit is the workout, you only display a single exercise per screen |
| 20:16 | <Hixie_> | marcosc: rel=home seems better than rel=canonical actually http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-home |
| 20:17 | <marcosc> | canonical seems to have quite a bit of usage |
| 20:17 | <marcosc> | will check rel=home too |
| 20:18 | <Hixie_> | rel=canonical is more for saying "http://warmupreps.com/?#starting-strength-squats should be http://warmupreps.com/#starting-strength-squats"; |
| 20:18 | <Domenic_> | canonical has something to do with googlejuice |
| 20:18 | <Hixie_> | rel=home is more what you want here i think, per that wiki page |
| 20:18 | <Domenic_> | e.g. http://www.domenic.me/ should be http://domenic.me/ is a common usage. |
| 20:28 | <Hixie_> | so... mutation events. anyone dropped them yet? can i start dropping the spec text about them? what's the story? https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23036 |
| 20:49 | <Hixie_> | https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23359 any opinions on how history.back() should act if it's called on the History object of a non-active document? |
| 21:57 | <marcosc> | Hixie_: yeah, rel=home is what I want indeed. Thanks for the pointer |
| 22:03 | <Hixie_> | anyone able to translate https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23387 for me? |
| 22:05 | <Hixie_> | wow, someone should send http://wiki.akosma.com/IPhone_URL_Schemes to the IETF |
| 22:05 | <Hixie_> | send a first-aid crew with it, though, in case people have heart attacks or something |
| 22:15 | <aklein> | Hixie_: I don't think anyone's dropped them yet (I know Blink hasn't), but I don't know if that means you need to continue to spec them. annevk hasn't bothered to say anything about them in DOM |
| 22:19 | <Hixie_> | are we expecting them to ever be dropped? |
| 22:23 | <aklein> | Hixie_: hopefully? we do measure their usage in Blink, and some of them (DOMNodeInserted and DOMSubtreeModified, I think) have enough usage that we're not yet comfortable dropping support. |
| 22:23 | <Hixie_> | if you're not comfortable dropping support, why are we comfortable not speccing them? :-) |
| 22:24 | <aklein> | that sounds like a good question for Anne :) |
| 22:26 | <aklein> | I'm actually surprised Gecko hasn't tried dropping support, they tend to be less conservative about this stuff |
| 22:27 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: ping? |
| 22:27 | <dglazkov> | mrbkap: pong! |
| 22:27 | <dglazkov> | about to run to a meeting |
| 22:27 | <dglazkov> | will be available in an hour? |
| 22:27 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: sounds good. |
| 22:43 | <annevk-cloud> | Hixie_: nobody has declared a loss yet and people do not want them specified until then |
| 22:44 | <annevk-cloud> | matjas: how about using the WHATWG wiki? |
| 22:51 | <Hixie_> | heycam|away: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23744 |
| 22:56 | <bholley> | Hixie_: any thoughts on how to more effectively poke abarth to move the security discussion along? |
| 23:00 | <Hixie_> | bholley: promise him chocolates? |
| 23:26 | <dglazkov> | mrbkap: here! |
| 23:27 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: Hey! |
| 23:27 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: I have a couple of questions: |
| 23:27 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: Has anybody looked into the interaction between shadow DOM and scoped stylesheets? |
| 23:29 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: i.e. if I have an element: <element><span>foo</span></element> with a shadow DOM: <div><style scoped>span { color: red; }</style><content></content></div> |
| 23:29 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: is "foo" in red or not? |
| 23:31 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: Also, why is the base element queue sorted in the spec? |
| 23:31 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: (in the custom elements spec) |
| 23:31 | <dglazkov> | mrbkap: it's a good question. We implemented both in Blink, and I know we use the same machinery for tracking the scoping node (element or Shadow Root). But I think the spec itself is not entirely clear there. |
| 23:32 | <dglazkov> | tasak⊙co and hayato⊙co are the peeps to bug about this. |
| 23:32 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: Okay, I'll send email. |
| 23:32 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: I know that bzbarsky thinks that "foo" should *not* be red in my example. |
| 23:33 | <dglazkov> | on to the sorted queue |
| 23:35 | <mrbkap> | Yes. |
| 23:36 | <dglazkov> | the main reason is future compatibility with imports. Since imports are loaded asynchronously, the ordering of custom element callbacks in them is unpredictable. the ordering provides stability. If you don't support imports, sorting can be just optimized away -- elements will be always added in the right order to the queue. |
| 23:37 | <mrbkap> | dglazkov: ah-ha, I see. |
| 23:39 | <dglazkov> | mrbkap: for example, we don't sort it now in Blink, because our imports implementation isn't baked yet: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/codesearch#chromium/src/third_party/WebKit/Source/core/dom/custom/CustomElementBaseElementQueue.cpp&sq=package:chromium&type=cs |
| 23:39 | mrbkap | thought code.google.com had shut down! |
| 23:40 | <dglazkov> | mrbkap: lol |
| 23:40 | <dglazkov> | it's been githubb'd |